Halladay Superthread

[fathom]

I agree on that wholeheartedly. Webb would likely be a target in the offseason. Also, I'd have to think another name or two could be available in the offseason that's not on the radar now. Pitchers are overpriced in terms of talent it would take to acquire them right now.

 

It's very possible Webb is a FA this offseason. There's also reports his injury is much more serious than the organization is stating it is.

[caulfield12]

It's very possible Webb is a FA this offseason. There's also reports his injury is much more serious than the organization is stating it is.

 

So the question is will KW be willing to go into one of those incentives-based contracts like the Red Sox put together for Penny or Smoltz?

 

David Wells is the last pitcher who had a somewhat similar contract in 2001.

 

Mark Mulder is another guy in this category, although it looks like he might be done.

 

Ironic, but far and away the best move the Indians made in the offseason was Carl Pavano, a move that almost everyone in baseball discounted.

 

But 85% of SoxTalk would take Pavano as the fifth starter right now I bet.

[beck72]

It's very possible Webb is a FA this offseason. There's also reports his injury is much more serious than the organization is stating it is.

IIRC, AZ has a team option on Webb. Like you said, if he's hurt, they likely will decline his option.

 

Another guy in the same boat [with health concerns] as trade bait could be the Marlins Josh Johnson. He'd be due for a big arb. increase from his $1.5 [?] mill 2009 salary. Though the sox have to be sure he's healthy going forward as well.

[fathom]

I just really hope that KW waits until after next weekend before making any big trades. I'd hate to see a blockbuster trade if we slump out of the break and we're 6 or 7 games out.

[chisoxfan09]

I've got it!! After tonite's performance this has to be the MOTHER of all trades!! Let's offer Wise for Halladay straight up!! NO way they say no especially if Ozzie is doing the phone call to Riccaridi!!

Hehehehe!!

 

 

[bschmaranz]

From ESPN Insider

 

ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick is hearing that White Sox GM Kenny Williams is making a stealth run at Roy Halladay.

 

"I definitely think Kenny is involved," said one AL executive. "Let's put it this way: I would be very surprised if he's not."

 

But the White Sox may not be able to add payroll due to a drop in attendance, and their farm system may not have the kind of talent the Blue Jays want in return. It's believed that infielder Gordon Beckham is off limits, and the Sox just sent first base prospect Brandon Allen to Arizona for reliever Tony Pena. A package centered around Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, Dayan Viciedo and Tyler Flowers probably isn't going to get it done. Don't forget, however, that the ever-aggressive Williams nearly acquired Jake Peavy in May.

 

Reports still indicate the Phillies' front office is split on whether to pursue the right-hander or stick with the current staff (including recently signed Pedro Martinez). And if the Jays stick to their guns and insist that any taker for Halladay also accepts outfielder Vernon Wells in the deal, the New York Yankees may be the only fit, says Newsday's Anthony Rieber.

 

"Several White Sox prospects have upgraded their stock considerably this year. Outfielder Jordan Danks has reached Double-A in his first full season while impressing scouts on both sides of the ball, while fellow 2008 draftees Dan Hudson (already in Double-A) and Dexter Carter (the minor league leader in strikeouts) have put up big numbers while drawing equally impressive praise. Viciedo would have to be a player to be named later, because he signed last December, but could Flowers, Poreda, Viciedo, Danks and one of the young arms get it done? The industry buzz is leaning towards no." - Kevin Goldstein

[BobDylan]

Dan Haren put up a 3.07 ERA pitching for the A's in 2007, his ERA away from Oakland: 3.34. Oh and Arizona's home ballpark has played as a hitter's park the past 2 seasons. It's hardly surprising that a starting pitcher would be more comfortable pitching in his home ballpark. Hell the last time Johan Santana won a Cy Young his road ERA was higher than Haren's '07 number.

 

STFU

[BearSox]

From ESPN Insider

Lol, looks like we won't be getting Halladay and the Jays aren't very serious about trading him anyway, if that report is accurate. No way is KW, or any GM, gonna trade Flowers, Viciedo, Danks2, Poreda, and one of Ricard/Hudson/Carter for 1.5 years of Halladay.

 

The most I'd offer is Alexei, Poreda, and a couple mid-level prospects. If that doesn't get it done, oh well. I'd rather keep basically the majority of our future.

[Dick Allen]

Lol, looks like we won't be getting Halladay and the Jays aren't very serious about trading him anyway, if that report is accurate. No way is KW, or any GM, gonna trade Flowers, Viciedo, Danks2, Poreda, and one of Ricard/Hudson/Carter for 1.5 years of Halladay.

 

The most I'd offer is Alexei, Poreda, and a couple mid-level prospects. If that doesn't get it done, oh well. I'd rather keep basically the majority of our future.

Even though he hasn't ever done it before, maybe KW flips Jenks for some prospects and use some of those plus maybe a little kicker for Halladay. Jenks has had a nice ride with the Sox but Jenks vs. Halladay is a no brainer.

 

Another thing people should keep in mind is while a lot of White Sox prospects are having a ton of success in the minors, it probably is going to take them a while to be very successful in the majors, if they even are at all. On the scoreboard last night, they had the rookie RBI leader in the entire AL with 23, that means Getz , who a lot of people here think can't play, leads all AL rookies with 16 doubles and is 1 off the lead in RBI. (Beckham is only 2 or 3 off). That's every AL team.

 

Another interesting note, Octavial Dotel has more strikeouts out of the bullpen than any other pitcher since 2000, and his k/9 innings is top 3 in the modern era. This according to the scoreboard last night.

[DBAHO]

Even though he hasn't ever done it before, maybe KW flips Jenks for some prospects and use some of those plus maybe a little kicker for Halladay. Jenks has had a nice ride with the Sox but Jenks vs. Halladay is a no brainer.

 

Another thing people should keep in mind is while a lot of White Sox prospects are having a ton of success in the minors, it probably is going to take them a while to be very successful in the majors, if they even are at all. On the scoreboard last night, they had the rookie RBI leader in the entire AL with 23, that means Getz , who a lot of people here think can't play, leads all AL rookies with 16 doubles and is 1 off the lead in RBI. (Beckham is only 2 or 3 off). That's every AL team.

 

Another interesting note, Octavial Dotel has more strikeouts out of the bullpen than any other pitcher since 2000, and his k/9 innings is top 3 in the modern era. This according to the scoreboard last night.

I agree that prospects have definitely been expendable under KW's reign.

 

But the package that's being proposed for Halladay, eh I'm just wary of giving up that much talent.

 

I mean don't get me wrong, Halladay's a stud SP.

 

But he's also thrown a lot of innings over the years, and there's always the risk of injury for a pitcher like him.

 

I think he'll end up at either the Dodgers (who are starting to struggle a little) or the Phillies anyways, but I'd never count KW out of anything.

[Dick Allen]

I agree that prospects have definitely been expendable under KW's reign.

 

But the package that's being proposed for Halladay, eh I'm just wary of giving up that much talent.

 

I mean don't get me wrong, Halladay's a stud SP.

 

But he's also thrown a lot of innings over the years, and there's always the risk of injury for a pitcher like him.

 

I think he'll end up at either the Dodgers (who are starting to struggle a little) or the Phillies anyways, but I'd never count KW out of anything.

 

I don't think KW is going to decimate his farm system either, but I definitely could see some sort of 3 way deal where Jenks goes and maybe another White Sox prospect or 2 and Halladay winds up with the Sox.

[DBAHO]

I don't think KW is going to decimate his farm system either, but I definitely could see some sort of 3 way deal where Jenks goes and maybe another White Sox prospect or 2 and Halladay winds up with the Sox.

After the Tony Pena acquisition that wouldn't surprise me, but you'd have to look at which teams out there would give up some good prospects to get Jenks in the 1st place.

[Dick Allen]

After the Tony Pena acquisition that wouldn't surprise me, but you'd have to look at which teams out there would give up some good prospects to get Jenks in the 1st place.

Maybe the Phillies, TB, ironically Toronto could use Jenks, but probably doesn't want to pay him what they would have to pay him next year. Its probably the main reason I think KW wouldn't mind dealing him. The White Sox historically have paid starting pitchers a lot of money, but haven't shelled out the big cabbage to closers. Once it was time for them to really start cashing in, they were gone. I really don't think Jenks will be any different, and while he's been a good closer, there's always been something about him that makes me feel he's a house of cards. His save pct. is fine, outstanding even, but it just wouldn't surprise me if one day and pretty soon, like in the next year or 2, he just lost it. To be honest, 4 years ago, I thought he probably would be flamed out by now, so I could be totally off on this, but I don't think I'm off on the White Sox wanting no part in paying him what they will be required to pay him next season and beyond.

[ThunderBolt]

Ozzie Guillen" ""I don't think were going to give up half the organization for one player." http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....r-halladay.html

[BearSox]

Teams that could use Jenks:

 

Yankees - They need a SU man and someone to take over for Mo. Plus, they're crazy, so they got no problem paying Jenks closer money.

Rays - They would likely go after Jenks very hard, they desperately need a closer, and relief pitching in general.

Braves - They could use a closer, but they likely don't want to spend money.

Blue Jays - Same as the Braves.

Marlins - Again, they would probably like to have Jenks, but they don't want to spend money.

Phillies - Could be very interested in Jenks. Lidge has sucked big time this year, and when he was injured, their replacements sucked as much. They could put Jenks in the closer spot and have Lidge pitch setup. Perhaps Lidge would do better in a SU role with a little less pressure.

Cubs - Only way they get him is if they give up an insanely awesome package.

 

That's about it.

[BlackBetsy]

Throw in Hudson and another SP prospect or a guy like Nathan Jones and maybe we could get Haren. I wouldn't pay that price though. I think that unless we can get an ace for well below his normal trade value we're best off waiting for the offseason to see what teams are looking to dump what players. Assuming he checks out medically, I'd much rather acquire Webb for half that cost or less.

 

All of this depends on how much the Diamondbacks want to reduce payroll. If it's bad, they would take a Flowers/Viciedo/Richard/Poreda package without blinking if it took the $45 million owed to Haren off the books. They raised $50 million to cover payroll over the next five years, so they may be good.

 

If they don't need to reduce payroll, I'm not sure they would trade Haren, period. Unless you offered Beckham / Poreda / Hudson / Danks / Flowers / Ramirez or some other ludicrous deal no GM would turn down.

[DBAHO]

All of this depends on how much the Diamondbacks want to reduce payroll. If it's bad, they would take a Flowers/Viciedo/Richard/Poreda package without blinking if it took the $45 million owed to Haren off the books. They raised $50 million to cover payroll over the next five years, so they may be good.

 

If they don't need to reduce payroll, I'm not sure they would trade Haren, period. Unless you offered Beckham / Poreda / Hudson / Danks / Flowers / Ramirez or some other ludicrous deal no GM would turn down.

They're looking to trade Chris Snyder now since Miguel Montero has come on, and he's due 16M over the next 3 years. So I think they'd obviously rather ship off some other assets before Haren if they can.

[Dick Allen]

They're looking to trade Chris Snyder now since Miguel Montero has come on, and he's due 16M over the next 3 years. So I think they'd obviously rather ship off some other assets before Haren if they can.

DBacks ownership has said they will not lower payroll. It will remain the same or rise. Haren is going nowhere, and if you think the price for Halladay is outrageous, Haren price would make that seem cheap.

[GreatScott82]

With the outragous prices for these guys. I'm almost at the point of saying screw it. Lets keep the farm strong and just add via free agency. We might be better off just buying low on guys like John Lackey or Brandon Webb. Let Poreda keep developing and plug him into our 5th spot next year.

 

Buerhle, Webb/Lackey, Danks, Floyd, Poreda. I'm cool with that- esspecially since the farm would still be in tact.

 

If there was one move i would like KW to make before July 31st, it would be to add an OF. I could see Dye bought out and signed to a new 3 year deal worth about 6 mil/ season. He would likely split DH duties with Quentin next year. So that leaves LF and CF open. Jordan Danks is getting closer but he may benefit for one more season down in the minors. So a DeJesus might be a good pick up as a 1.5 year stop gap.

[DBAHO]

With the outragous prices for these guys. I'm almost at the point of saying screw it. Lets keep the farm strong and just add via free agency. We might be better off just buying low on guys like John Lackey or Brandon Webb. Let Poreda keep developing and plug him into our 5th spot next year.

 

Buerhle, Webb/Lackey, Danks, Floyd, Poreda. I'm cool with that- esspecially since the farm would still be in tact.

 

If there was one move i would like KW to make before July 31st, it would be to add an OF. I could see Dye bought out and signed to a new 3 year deal worth about 6 mil/ season. He would likely split DH duties with Quentin next year. So that leaves LF and CF open. Jordan Danks is getting closer but he may benefit for one more season down in the minors. So a DeJesus might be a good pick up as a 1.5 year stop gap.

Lackey's actually quite an interesting case coming into FA this off-season.

 

His ERA is at 4.93 currently, but he's actually pitched a lot better than that, a FIP of 3.98 and he's only had a DER of .664 behind him in his 12 starts so far this season.

 

I think he'll still get Derek Lowe type of money from some team, but I hope the Sox definitely take a look at him if they're after a #2 type of SP.

[GreatScott82]

Lackey's actually quite an interesting case coming into FA this off-season.

 

His ERA is at 4.93 currently, but he's actually pitched a lot better than that, a FIP of 3.98 and he's only had a DER of .664 behind him in his 12 starts so far this season.

 

I think he'll still get Derek Lowe type of money from some team, but I hope the Sox definitely take a look at him if they're after a #2 type of SP.

Well it looks like both Lackey and Figgins will indeed hit theOpen Market. The funny thing is, i could see them both landing with the Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Well it looks like both Lackey and Figgins will indeed hit theOpen Market. The funny thing is, i could see them both landing with the Sox.

 

Wow Anaheim could look very different next year.

[ILMOU]

Wow Anaheim could look very different next year.

 

Based on the reports I'm hearing about the Jays' demands for Roy, I think Ricciardi is just jerking us all around. He'll wind up trading him next year at this time, for far less.

 

He's not a great GM by any means, despite having learned the craft from Beane.

[ThunderBolt]

He's not a great GM by any means, despite having learned the craft from Beane.

He's an absolute bastard, but he's sharp. It takes a lot to field a consistent 80 win team in that division.

[Kyyle23]

Rick Morrissey, there is something wrong with your head

 

Alexei and JOHN Danks for Halladay? Forget that noise