BearSox Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 The problem I have with moving Alexei is if that would hurt our cuban connection. However, if they are professionals, it should be no problem. I got no problem trading Alexei while his value is high though. He's probably at maximum value right now as teams probably feel he can still play SS, but in the long run he'll have to move to 2B, CF, or LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 08:09 PM) The problem I have with moving Alexei is if that would hurt our cuban connection. However, if they are professionals, it should be no problem. I got no problem trading Alexei while his value is high though. He's probably at maximum value right now as teams probably feel he can still play SS, but in the long run he'll have to move to 2B, CF, or LF. Did it matter when we let Orlando Hernandez walk away? Not really. Jaime Torres and the Sox have a great relationship, and in the end, that is the big thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Per Phil Rogers One way would be to build a package around Gavin Floyd, whose value has increased because of the contract extension he signed in March (four years, $15.5 million, with an option for 2013). Were the Jays to demand Gordon Beckham or Alexei Ramirez, that would be a deal killer — and needing a shortstop, Ricciardi might want one of those two — but almost anything else can be on the table. Ricciardi supposedly would like to package 30-year-old center fielder Vernon Wells in a Halladay deal. That could blow up almost any potential trade, given Wells’ exorbitant contract and the way his hitting has slipped. But Wells, 30, could fit with the White Sox if Ricciardi agreed to pay a lot — half maybe? — of the $98.5 million he’s owed from 2010-14. Gavin Floyd and Alexie Ramirez+ probably Flowers for Doc Halladay and Vernon Wells at half price. .. ??? Losing Floyd would hurt, he is young cheap and talented, i guess adding Wells would spell our CF issue for the next 5 seasons but then who would play 3B? I would do this deal if: A) Toronto includes Rolen instread of Wells. B) Halladay immediately signs an extension say 14-15 mill for for 3 seasons till 2012. Then the Sox could move Beckham to SS and insert Poreda into the rotation. This deal would be nice because you still keep Beckham and Poreda, which still gives the Sox a good blend of youth and veterans. Talk about a scary lineup: Pods CF Beckham SS Dye RF Thome DH Konerko 1B Rolen 3B Quentin LF Pierzynski C Getz 2B Buerhle, Halladay, Danks, Contreras, Poreda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'd rather have Floyd, Ramirez, and Flowers than 1 1/2 years of 32 year old Halladay and the quickly aging Vernon Wells or the already aging, overpaid Rolen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 The whole point of trading for Halladay would be to solidify our rotation. If we trade Floyd for him, sure we upgrade at one spot, but we still have the same problem in the 5th spot of the rotation. No thanks. My final offer right now would Ramirez, Poreda, Shelby, and Ely for Halladay and Rios/Rolen and half of their remaining contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'd move Ramirez for Halladay but not Floyd. I'm not sure I would trade 4 years of Floyd for Halladay straight up. Beckham can move to Short. I'd try to get Rolen too but if not, Nix/Fields or another trade can cover 3rd. Ramirez is a good ball player but he has holes in his game and Halladay is an ace. Ramirez seems to have mental lapses, has an erratic style at short, seems to be prone to severe slumps, and does not appear to be a leadership guy. Ramirez, Poreda, plus any prospect including Flowers sounds good to me. The Sox could always move Halladay before next year's trading deadline or offer him arbitration and get picks. I would not trade Beckham in a Halladay deal. I would however trade Beckham for Haren. Even if Beckham consistantly hits .310 25 120, Haren is AL proven ace at a four year reasonable deal. It's harder to come by that quality of pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'd move Ramirez for Halladay but not Floyd. I'm not sure I would trade 4 years of Floyd for Halladay straight up. Beckham can move to Short. I'd try to get Rolen too but if not, Nix/Fields or another trade can cover 3rd. Ramirez is a good ball player but he has holes in his game and Halladay is an ace. Ramirez seems to have mental lapses, has an erratic style at short, seems to be prone to severe slumps, and does not appear to be a leadership guy. Ramirez, Poreda, plus any prospect including Flowers sounds good to me. The Sox could always move Halladay before next year's trading deadline or offer him arbitration and get picks. I would not trade Beckham in a Halladay deal. I would however trade Beckham for Haren. Even if Beckham consistantly hits .310 25 120, Haren is AL proven ace at a four year reasonable deal. It's harder to come by that quality of pitching. I submitted a few threads about Haren but got laughed out of the board in a couple of places. But with time every team or GM has a price. Arizona is going no where but things may change next wih Webb back. That is if his shoulder heals and he does not require surgery. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 01:43 PM) I submitted a few threads about Haren but got laughed out of the board in a couple of places. But with time every team or GM has a price. Arizona is going no where but things may change next wih Webb back. That is if his shoulder heals and he does not require surgery. Time will tell. I think your Haren suggestion was not supported by most because Haren is not really being shopped. Beckham might change that. Bacon might not even be enough unless AZ needs to save cash. I think Halladay will be moved. KW will be in on it. KW might not give up what they want and the Sox may not get him, but I'd bet my favorite AJ jersey that KW will make some sort of aggressive creative offer. KW is probably thinking about it right now. Edited July 11, 2009 by 103 mph screwball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:24 AM) The whole point of trading for Halladay would be to solidify our rotation. If we trade Floyd for him, sure we upgrade at one spot, but we still have the same problem in the 5th spot of the rotation. No thanks. I agree. Richard and Poreda would all that I'd be willing to deal for Halladay - and then I'd only do it if Halladay signed a two-year extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 I also agree with a majority of the current posts about the baggage or cost Wells brings. I laughed that is what comparable to the horrible, terrible contract the Cubs are saddled now with Soriano. How can GM do such insane things? I wonder if the market will ever develo with a common sense where you give out contracts at a 4-5 year rate max. Doubt it though. Heck even Sabathia got an opt clause with his albatross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) I think your Haren suggestion was not supported by most because Haren is not really being shopped. Beckham might change that. Bacon might not even be enough unless AZ needs to save cash. I think Halladay will be moved. KW will be in on it. KW might not give up what they want and the Sox may not get him, but I'd bet my favorite AJ jersey that KW will make some sort of aggressive creative offer. KW is probably thinking about it right now. Agree, and I also find it hard to believe that the Jays are going to get the type of package they are asking for without at least providing a negotiation window. Asking for elite minor league talent and/or Wells' inclusion in the deal shouldn't fly with anyone in this economy. Think about this: say the Sox offer Beckham + Flowers + Poreda + Viciedo/Danks. Imagine how many teams are going to be crying poor over the offseason. Even at the time of the trade, that is a much better package than the Marlins got for Miguel Cabrera. Could we get Hanley for that? Maybe... I don't know what the Jays will do, but not offering a negotiation window is stupid has hell. Unless Halladay has already told Ricciardi that he will not discuss anything long-term (which I wouldn't believe BTW since the economy figures to get worse before it gets better and he might be able to get more now than he would after hitting FA) then the Jays need to talk to EVERY non-AL East team about Halladay + extension. Then, take the best offer you can. If I were them I'd deal Halladay now before waiting for the offseason. Who knows what other names are going to hit the market this December? If a guy like Hanley does show up out there, even though the Marlins said they won't do it and even though the Marlins have a stadium coming, then who chases Halladay? Over the 2009-10 offseason I would NOT be shocked to see any if not all of the following players hit the market: Cliff Lee, Hanley Ramirez, Victor Martinez, Halladay if he stays, Prince Fielder, Brandon Webb, Roy Oswalt, Carlos Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Carlos Zambrano, Carl Crawford, etc. Then you've got Lackey and Holliday as FA. Hudson and OC are out there too, along with Figgins and others. The Yankees and Red Sox can only afford so many players, and there will be lots of bargains out there that other teams will want to take advantage of if only they can dump a contract or two. Imagine what a guy like Jim Thome or Johnny Damon is going to cost in this climate? You'll be able to get a high-quality veteran bat for pennies on the dollar. Players like Hideki Matsui will have to consider playing in Japan, taking a bench role, or retiring altogether. It's going to be tough. The rich will still get richer by the richest teams, but the gap between pay for league-average players and star players is going to continue to widen by large margins. For example, Bobby Abreu vs. Matt Holliday could easily be a $10M+ difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) Per Phil Rogers Gavin Floyd and Alexie Ramirez+ probably Flowers for Doc Halladay and Vernon Wells at half price. .. ??? Losing Floyd would hurt, he is young cheap and talented, i guess adding Wells would spell our CF issue for the next 5 seasons but then who would play 3B? I would do this deal if: A) Toronto includes Rolen instread of Wells. B) Halladay immediately signs an extension say 14-15 mill for for 3 seasons till 2012. Then the Sox could move Beckham to SS and insert Poreda into the rotation. This deal would be nice because you still keep Beckham and Poreda, which still gives the Sox a good blend of youth and veterans. Talk about a scary lineup: Pods CF Beckham SS Dye RF Thome DH Konerko 1B Rolen 3B Quentin LF Pierzynski C Getz 2B Buerhle, Halladay, Danks, Contreras, Poreda There is no f***ing way I trade Floyd for Halladay, none, end of story. Floyd is a cornerstone in that rotation and a f***ing stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 What's the point of trading for Hallday, and making a run for it this season, if it's going to cost you Gavin Floyd and Alexi Ramirez? Yes, Halladay would be a great addition, but unless we're going with a 4 man rotation for the last month or two of the season, we're still a starter short, and with a hole at SS? It's got to be top prospects, should something happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I wouldn't trade Gavin Floyd straight up for Roy Halladay. I'm not saying Floyd is better than Roy but that the money savings and the age and everything combined make Floyd far more valuable, imo. Plus if the Sox are willing to pay a pitcher 15M a year they can get an above average righty without giving up Gavin, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I would trade Gavin for Halladay in a heartbeat. I think we have a tendency to overvalue our own players. Two aces on the staff and you give yourself a legitimate WS contender for the next three years-- and that's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (longshot7 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 10:07 PM) I would trade Gavin for Halladay in a heartbeat. I think we have a tendency to overvalue our own players. Two aces on the staff and you give yourself a legitimate WS contender for the next three years-- and that's worth it. Here's the flaw in your argument...Buehrle's contract runs out in 2012 and he seems to be strongly considering retirement and Halladay would be ours for 1 season and 2 months. No thanks on Gavin for Halladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Halladay for Lexi,Floyd and Flowers? Hell No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) I know we overvalue our players, but I'd hate to see us give up Lexi and/or Beckham in a Halladay deal. I guess I'd be OK with Gavin. I'm hoping Kenny doesn't ship away everyday players for a pitcher who could get hurt at any time. Why don't we instead try to get Cliff Lee? Maybe Cleveland would never consider shipping him to a division rival, but couldn't we get Lee on the cheap? Pitchers are so fragile nowadays. Look at Harden. Doesn't he suck this year? Edited July 12, 2009 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 10:44 PM) Here's the flaw in your argument...Buehrle's contract runs out in 2012 and he seems to be strongly considering retirement and Halladay would be ours for 1 season and 2 months. No thanks on Gavin for Halladay. That also means we lose our #1 pitcher... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilmot825 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Baseball Tonight just now, Buster Olney said that "The White Sox are in the mix but are refusing to give up Gordon Beckham, causing talks to stall." Edited July 12, 2009 by wilmot825 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (wilmot825 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 12:30 AM) Baseball Tonight just now, Buster Onley said that "The White Sox are in the mix but are refusing to give up Gordon Beckham, causing talks to stall." Olney gets the "Duh" quote of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Trading Beckham would make our fanbase very very upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I bet we trade Shelby and Carter for Garland, trying to recapture more 05yness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I haven't got into the mix in this thread, but I will simply say that there is absolutely no way in hell I would trade for Halladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (wilmot825 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 12:30 AM) Baseball Tonight just now, Buster Olney said that "The White Sox are in the mix but are refusing to give up Gordon Beckham, causing talks to stall." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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