Halladay Superthread

[BearSox]

Rick Morrissey, there is something wrong with your head

 

Alexei and JOHN Danks for Halladay? Forget that noise

 

Yeah, um, I think I'm gonna have to pass on that one.

[ThunderBolt]

Rick Morrissey, there is something wrong with your head

 

Alexei and JOHN Danks for Halladay? Forget that noise

All of these packages that have been suggested by the beat writers are not only illogical and poor, but would compromise one of the most grievous mistakes our organization could ever make. You can justify trading our future for 1.5 years of an aging, albeit great pitcher. But you certainly don't trade our present for the guy. You don't win a trade when what you give up negates the return.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[GreatScott82]

Rick Morrissey, there is something wrong with your head

 

Alexei and JOHN Danks for Halladay? Forget that noise

Lets see, we have Danks under our control through 2012. Alexie is signed for cheap through 2011. I don't think so Rick. . .

[BlackBetsy]

Lets see, we have Danks under our control through 2012. Alexie is signed for cheap through 2011. I don't think so Rick. . .

 

Not to mention the fact that Halladay isn't THAT much better than Danks (maybe 2-3 wins a season, support neutral, but maybe only 1 win next year as Danks continues to mature), whereas he's 7-8 wins better than Richard / Colon over the course of a season. Trading Danks and Ramirez for Halladay actually CREATES more holes for the White Sox (creates a hole at 3B assuming Beckham moves to SS and does NOT solve the 5th starter issue). It's so moronic - I have no idea why Morrissey can keep a major sports column.

 

If he says the Sox should go for Halladay at all costs, the costs should be emptying the Sox's prospects (e.g., Flowers / Richard / Viciedo / Danks2 / Hudson / Poreda / Morel)

[chisoxfan09]

Not to mention the fact that Halladay isn't THAT much better than Danks (maybe 2-3 wins a season, support neutral, but maybe only 1 win next year as Danks continues to mature), whereas he's 7-8 wins better than Richard / Colon over the course of a season. Trading Danks and Ramirez for Halladay actually CREATES more holes for the White Sox (creates a hole at 3B assuming Beckham moves to SS and does NOT solve the 5th starter issue). It's so moronic - I have no idea why Morrissey can keep a major sports column.

 

If he says the Sox should go for Halladay at all costs, the costs should be emptying the Sox's prospects (e.g., Flowers / Richard / Viciedo / Danks2 / Hudson / Poreda / Morel)

 

Yup, agree 100% on all points. I think Becks-Alexei-Getz can form a solid infield combo with more time and work together. That is one of the controversial themes of this season but there is sure potential there. Alexei is very acrobatic with some of his range/fielding and if it weren´t for those mental lapses man he would just rule in the field. I think his range is also above average for his position at SS. Don´t wanna part with this infield. Too much upside in my IMHO.

 

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,3342726.column

 

Has he lost his mind....?

[witesoxfan]

Yes

[beck72]

If the sox wanted to only win in 2009 and 2010, sure, the trade makes some sense. But trading Danks [under team control for decade for 1/4 of what Roy will make post 2010, not to mention Alexei], is absurd.

 

I've talked about trading Alexei before. But in the right deal, for a young potential ace, such as to Boston for one, two of their young arms. Not a 32 yr old who'll be making $20 + mill. Granted Roy's a stud. But he's a stud that stands to make 1/4 of the Sox entire team payroll once his contract expires.

[chisoxfan09]

If the sox wanted to only win in 2009 and 2010, sure, the trade makes some sense. But trading Danks [under team control for decade for 1/4 of what Roy will make post 2010, not to mention Alexei], is absurd.

 

I've talked about trading Alexei before. But in the right deal, for a young potential ace, such as to Boston for one, two of their young arms. Not a 32 yr old who'll be making $20 + mill. Granted Roy's a stud. But he's a stud that stands to make 1/4 of the Sox entire team payroll once his contract expires.

 

I think with all the other megaposts (Believe me been many many) the odds are better than 50/50 that Doc stays put. They are over valueing their team way more than we are. They key now to continued organizational health financially and performance wise to to keep your best prospects and let them develop. Free Angency is great but the reverse is kinda happening with trades. Teams want more MLB ready talent and under control for 2-3 years.

[DBAHO]

Matthew Pouliot from Rotoworld has us at #3 for the favorites for a Halladay trade;

 

Here are the three teams most likely to pull off a trade, in my opinion:

 

3. White Sox - The question is whether GM Kenny Williams can do a deal without including Gordon Beckham. A package instead built around Alexei Ramirez could work, with left-hander Aaron Poreda, outfielder Jordan Danks and a lesser prospects rounding out the deal. Ramirez would eventually fit at either shortstop, third or in center field for the Jays, though he'd likely have to play left for now. The White Sox could install Beckham at short and go back to Josh Fields at third. Ricciardi would have to be really fond of Ramirez's talent for such a trade to work. I don't see the White Sox parting with Beckham, and John Danks, who notched the team's only victory in last year's postseason, shouldn't be on the table.

 

2. Cardinals - Adding Halladay to a rotation includes Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright would suddenly make the Cards the favorites to represent the NL in the World Series. The problem is that St. Louis has just one top talent to barter with in 2008 first-rounder Brett Wallace. Colby Rasmus can't possibly be included. A package of Wallace, shortstop Peter Kozma and two from a group of Jess Todd, Clayton Mortensen, Mitchell Boggs and Francisco Samuel could tempt the Jays, but it'd leave the Cards awfully short on minor league depth. Complicating things is that Todd and Samuel are believed to be on the Indians' list of players to choose from to complete the Mark DeRosa deal.

 

1. Phillies - Nothing about the Martinez signing would prevent the Phillies from getting a Halladay trade done. A package including right-hander Kyle Drabek, infielder Jason Donald and either right-hander Carlos Carrasco or outfielder Michael Taylor would fit the Jays' needs, and the Phillies should be able to afford Halladay with Brett Myers and Geoff Jenkins among those coming off the books after the season.

 

Halladay and most everyone reporting on the situation seem to believe the chances of a trade are 50-50. I think they are less than that, given the Jays' demands and Halladay's no-trade clause. A deal in the offseason seems more likely to me. Still, it will be the most interesting situation to follow up until the deadline. He's the biggest diffence-maker available, and both the Jays and Halladay have proven willing to discuss things publically.

[knightni]

Matthew Pouliot doesn't realize that trading Jor Danks and Ramirez will negatively affect the re-signing of Viciedo and John Danks.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Matthew Pouliot doesn't realize that trading Jor Danks and Ramirez will negatively affect the re-signing of Viciedo and John Danks.

Good point.

[caulfield12]

If the sox wanted to only win in 2009 and 2010, sure, the trade makes some sense. But trading Danks [under team control for decade for 1/4 of what Roy will make post 2010, not to mention Alexei], is absurd.

 

I've talked about trading Alexei before. But in the right deal, for a young potential ace, such as to Boston for one, two of their young arms. Not a 32 yr old who'll be making $20 + mill. Granted Roy's a stud. But he's a stud that stands to make 1/4 of the Sox entire team payroll once his contract expires.

 

But Boston is quickly learning the utility of holding onto their younger players/prospects...to expect a Bowden or Buchholz, when they already have some decent infield depth on the left side, enough to jettison Lugo without thinking twice.

 

They also learned something from watching Hanley Ramirez become one of the 3 or so most dynamic players in the game today.

[ThunderBolt]

"Suddenly, the Rogers Centre is a destination for all sorts of baseball people.

Pat Gillick, who stepped down last fall as GM of the Philadelphia Phillies, but remains a key adviser to current GM Ruben Amaro; Gord Ash, the former Jays GM and now assistant to Milwaukee Brewers GM Doug Melvin; Texas Rangers scout Don Welke; and, intriguingly, Chicago White Sox minority owner Eddie Einhorn, all were among the interested on hand for yesterday's second game of the weekend series between the Jays and Boston Red Sox.

They saw the Blue Jays bounce back to thump the Red Sox 6-2 to tie the series, "

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnist.../07/19/10184436

 

[GreatScott82]

"Suddenly, the Rogers Centre is a destination for all sorts of baseball people.

Pat Gillick, who stepped down last fall as GM of the Philadelphia Phillies, but remains a key adviser to current GM Ruben Amaro; Gord Ash, the former Jays GM and now assistant to Milwaukee Brewers GM Doug Melvin; Texas Rangers scout Don Welke; and, intriguingly, Chicago White Sox minority owner Eddie Einhorn, all were among the interested on hand for yesterday's second game of the weekend series between the Jays and Boston Red Sox.

They saw the Blue Jays bounce back to thump the Red Sox 6-2 to tie the series, "

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnist.../07/19/10184436

There are your remaining teams in the Halladay hunt. Stay tuned Sox fans.

[elrockinMT]

I read the Morrissey article in the Tribune. I can see why he is a writer and not a GM or maanger. Trade Danks and/or Ramirez in the deal for Halladay? Put Beckham at SS and FIELDS at 3B? Keep our young studs is what I think is best. Build from within. We keep The Doc for a year and a half and even though the guy is a super pitcher we give up a super pitcher in the making. Danks is good right now and will get better. Ramirez is good and they are both with this team for awhile longer than Halladay would be. I think the idea of trading either of these guys is just crazy. Maybe we win this year with Halladay and maybe not, but I'll guarantee he will be gone no later than the end of season 2010 and we will have nothing.

[elrockinMT]

Rick Morrissey, there is something wrong with your head

 

Alexei and JOHN Danks for Halladay? Forget that noise

 

He must have been at one of those sports bars when he wrote this article

Edited July 19, 2009 by elrockinMT

[mr_genius]

BLOW IT UP KENNY! Re-tool, Re-build whatever.....

 

05-18-2009: The day most of us gave up on the 2009 White Sox season.)

 

oh my

[ThunderBolt]

The more I read these Halladay rumors the less I like them. The Jays are doing a very good job of playing up his value, and we appear to have a legitimate part in all of this. KW’s going to do what he thinks is right for this team, but I’m very tentative about this.

[GreatScott82]

oh my

hey. . he could still 're-tool' Ever since i wrote that the Sox are 32-21. Its not the first time that i've eat crow.

[fathom]

The more I read these Halladay rumors the less I like them. The Jays are doing a very good job of playing up his value, and we appear to have a legitimate part in all of this. KW's going to do what he thinks is right for this team, but I'm very tentative about this.

 

I still believe Halladay and 1 1/3 seasons from him is not worth the cost.

[maggsmaggs]

I still believe Halladay and 1 1/3 seasons from him is not worth the cost.

The Morrissey idea is just stupid. We are a worse team trading Danks and Ramirez for Halladay. And if we give up just minor leaguers for Halladay, we kill our system and again have a one-year window to win it all next year with very little flexibility in FA and nothing ready in the minors. I am content to sit and play with what we have. We will be competitive for a division this year clearly, but keeping everybody and adding two pieces in FA + the solid minor league players next year, we have a window of at least 3-5 years of highly competitive teams. Everybody would love Halladay, but the price is just outrageous.

Edited July 19, 2009 by maggsmaggs

[Kyyle23]

I read the Morrissey article in the Tribune. I can see why he is a writer and not a GM or maanger. Trade Danks and/or Ramirez in the deal for Halladay? Put Beckham at SS and FIELDS at 3B? Keep our young studs is what I think is best. Build from within. We keep The Doc for a year and a half and even though the guy is a super pitcher we give up a super pitcher in the making. Danks is good right now and will get better. Ramirez is good and they are both with this team for awhile longer than Halladay would be. I think the idea of trading either of these guys is just crazy. Maybe we win this year with Halladay and maybe not, but I'll guarantee he will be gone no later than the end of season 2010 and we will have nothing.

 

 

Except if we win this year with Halladay and he leaves in 2010, we will not have nothing. We will have another World Champioship

[GreatScott82]

I still believe Halladay and 1 1/3 seasons from him is not worth the cost.

You would have to think the closer to the deadline, the lower the cost. IMO the Jays won't get near as much as they would get right now. The sooner they trade him the better off they will be. I think the Phillies will be the aggressive team that gets him. Out of the Phillies, Brewers, White Sox and Rangers, the Phillies are the team that is in the win now mode most. I hightly doubt the Brewers would continue to deplete their farm for another ace just to lose him via free agency again. The Rangers are interesting, but it makes me wonder if Roy would use his 'no trade clause' to refuse to go there. You would have to think its between the Phillies and White Sox, the Phillies making the most sense due to the state of each team. However, if the Phillies pull Drabek out of the deal, KW could easily sweep in- he's done that in the past.

Edited July 19, 2009 by GreatScott82

[fathom]

Everyone needs to remember that Halladay can demand a trade this offseason if he gets traded. If the Sox don't grant it to him, he automatically becomes a free agent.