Halladay Superthread

[GreatScott82]

Everyone needs to remember that Halladay can demand a trade this offseason if he gets traded. If the Sox don't grant it to him, he automatically becomes a free agent.

I just don't see Halladay doing that. But i've been fooled before. . .

[Kyyle23]

Everyone needs to remember that Halladay can demand a trade this offseason if he gets traded. If the Sox don't grant it to him, he automatically becomes a free agent.

 

which makes the negotiation window important. I dont think KW wants the rental, I think he wants the ownership if he makes this trade

[fathom]

which makes the negotiation window important. I dont think KW wants the rental, I think he wants the ownership if he makes this trade

 

The Blue Jays supposedly will absolutely not grant the negotiation window.

[Kyyle23]

The Blue Jays supposedly will absolutely not grant the negotiation window.

 

I just dont understand the logic in this

[mmmmmbeeer]

The Morrissey idea is just stupid. We are a worse team trading Danks and Ramirez for Halladay. And if we give up just minor leaguers for Halladay, we kill our system and again have a one-year window to win it all next year with very little flexibility in FA and nothing ready in the minors. I am content to sit and play with what we have. We will be competitive for a division this year clearly, but keeping everybody and adding two pieces in FA + the solid minor league players next year, we have a window of at least 3-5 years of highly competitive teams. Everybody would love Halladay, but the price is just outrageous.

 

 

There's no way that's the price, no sane GM in baseball would offer up 2 IMPACT MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS with ridiculously low salaries for a single pitcher with a year and half on his deal. Absolutely ludicrous to even imagine. The Twins didn't even get CLOSE to that when trading Santana who, IMO, is a better pitcher than Halladay AND agreed to an extension.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I like the idea that has been mentioned before on this board where the Sox work in another team in a Jenks deal.

 

But still, dealing for Halladay now could definitely hurt us. With Allen gone, Flowers is our only 1B in the system IMO. Even though he's a catcher, he could be moved there, and with Phegley in the system and Flowers in Charlotte already that might end up happening. Dealing Flowers would then leave us with nothing after Paulie.

 

Dealing Hudson and any pitching prospects is no problem for me because we're talking about Halladay. But that's not going to be enough either, and I don't like the idea of parting with Alexei, Floyd, Danks, or D2 (for reasons related to D1).

 

What about:

 

Sox trade: Bobby Jenks + cash to TB, Viciedo, Richard, any 3 eligible MiLB players except D2 or Flowers

Sox get: Roy Halladay

 

Rays trade: Reid Brignac, prospect(s)

Rays get: Bobby Jenks, cash from Sox in '09

 

Jays trade: Roy Halladay

Jays get: Reid Brignac + Rays prospect(s), Viciedo, Richard, 3 more Sox prospects

 

That's probably not enough unless we include Flowers, but I wouldn't do that unless we got a 1B prospect back. If Kenny doesn't make the Allen deal and Flowers is added, and if the TB part is realistic, that would be very competitive package IMO.

[BearSox]

I don't see why the Jays would have any interest in Viciedo. Well, I'm sure they'll have interest, but I'm pretty sure they'd prefer cheap prospects compared to Viciedo.

 

I still don't see what's not to like about a package centered around Alexei and Poreda and a couple other prospects for Halladay. You'd be taking a risk by moving Beckham to SS and Fields/Nix to 3B, but it'd be worth it to add Halladay to the rotation.

 

One thing I was thinking about if we do the trade I just mentioned, maybe we could get Willy Aybar from Tampa for Dotel. Aybar has no room on their roster now that Burrell is healthy and hitting again. The only thing you'd have to worry about with Aybar is if he's another Wilson Betemit who can't play 3B at all.

[Balta1701]

One thing I was thinking about if we do the trade I just mentioned, maybe we could get Willy Aybar from Tampa for Dotel. Aybar has no room on their roster now that Burrell is healthy and hitting again. The only thing you'd have to worry about with Aybar is if he's another Wilson Betemit who can't play 3B at all.

Which .300+ in July hitting infielder are we going to bench for him?

[Rowand44]

Rick Morrissey, there is something wrong with your head

 

Alexei and JOHN Danks for Halladay? Forget that noise

Ya....no. Morrissey is insane.

[Chicago White Sox]

I like the idea that has been mentioned before on this board where the Sox work in another team in a Jenks deal.

 

But still, dealing for Halladay now could definitely hurt us. With Allen gone, Flowers is our only 1B in the system IMO. Even though he's a catcher, he could be moved there, and with Phegley in the system and Flowers in Charlotte already that might end up happening. Dealing Flowers would then leave us with nothing after Paulie.

 

Dealing Hudson and any pitching prospects is no problem for me because we're talking about Halladay. But that's not going to be enough either, and I don't like the idea of parting with Alexei, Floyd, Danks, or D2 (for reasons related to D1).

 

What about:

 

Sox trade: Bobby Jenks + cash to TB, Viciedo, Richard, any 3 eligible MiLB players except D2 or Flowers

Sox get: Roy Halladay

 

Rays trade: Reid Brignac, prospect(s)

Rays get: Bobby Jenks, cash from Sox in '09

 

Jays trade: Roy Halladay

Jays get: Reid Brignac + Rays prospect(s), Viciedo, Richard, 3 more Sox prospects

 

That's probably not enough unless we include Flowers, but I wouldn't do that unless we got a 1B prospect back. If Kenny doesn't make the Allen deal and Flowers is added, and if the TB part is realistic, that would be very competitive package IMO.

 

 

Are you really proposing trading 6 players for Halladay? One who is a major league closer worth probably 3 solid prospects. You're essentially trading 8 players for a year and a half of Halladay. Why are you so hell bent on gutting the system to acquire Halladay?

[ThunderBolt]

Did i just read a proposal where we lose our closer, 5th starter, future 3b, 3 prospects, cash and a good SS in Reid Brignac for Roy Halladay?

[BearSox]

Which .300+ in July hitting infielder are we going to bench for him?

 

In my proposal, we have Ramirez going to Toronto for Halladay. So we wouldn't have to bench anyone.

[caulfield12]

In my proposal, we have Ramirez going to Toronto for Halladay. So we wouldn't have to bench anyone.

 

 

That's the proposal that requires us to play Nix/Fields at 3B.

 

Which is STILL infinitely better than dealing Alexei and Floyd/Danks, because trading either young starter blows yet another hole in our rotation for the not-so-distant future.

 

If we're 100% sure Quentin comes back healthy, then you can THINK about acquiring Halladay. Otherwise, you're going to cripple the future of this franchise in uncertain economic times for a 50% probability of making the playoffs (when Minnesota doesn't play NY/BOS/TB and Detroit ends with MIN and us at home) and then the certainly higher than 12.5% chance of us getting to the World Series and winning it with the Top 4 we'd have in Halladay/Buehrle/Danks/Floyd...assuming we could make the trade WITHOUT Floyd or Danks, and just Ramirez.

 

So do you make the trade with roughly 1/8 odds of both winning the ALCD and then winning it all COMBINED, it create a much, much lower probability of having a team that could win it all in 2011/2012/2013??

Edited July 19, 2009 by caulfield12

[BearSox]

People have mentioned getting Rolen, Rios, and Wells back in a trade, but what about Marco Scutaro? If we give up Alexei, they have to move Scutaro or Rolen, but getting Scutaro back instead of Rolen makes a lot more sense from a financial standpoint. He's only owed about 1 million after this season. However, he'd likely raise the cost more because he'll probably get at least type B comp in the offseason.

[caulfield12]

People have mentioned getting Rolen, Rios, and Wells back in a trade, but what about Marco Scutaro? If we give up Alexei, they have to move Scutaro or Rolen, but getting Scutaro back instead of Rolen makes a lot more sense from a financial standpoint. He's only owed about 1 million after this season. However, he'd likely raise the cost more because he'll probably get at least type B comp in the offseason.

 

Plus, Scutaro is a Venezuelan SS. We always say how Ozzie will bring in so many Venezuelans, but that's never materialized.

 

We kind of ran off Ordonez (understandably) and couldn't get Miggy Cabrera. I guess there's Santeliz in the minors, that's about it.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Roy Halladay has been arguably the best pitcher in baseball for the past couple years. With that said I do not want him as it would cost too much. Giving up Lexi and Danks and/or Jenks and a some of our best minor leaguers? I don't think so. Besides like others I'm sure have mentioned he's getting a little old with a ton of mileage on his arm and he's good for like a DL stint each year it seems.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Are you really proposing trading 6 players for Halladay? One who is a major league closer worth probably 3 solid prospects. You're essentially trading 8 players for a year and a half of Halladay. Why are you so hell bent on gutting the system to acquire Halladay?

My proposal probably wouldn't be enough anyway,

 

Richard = no big loss. Future lefty setup man and we have Poreda and Thornton already. Halladay replaces his spot in the rotation.

 

Jenks = loss to current team, but will be getting very expensive starting next year

 

Viciedo = likely 1.5 years away at least

 

3 prospects = I don't care, as long as they're not Flowers or Danks. I have no issues trading pitching prospects for a proven ace

 

I'd much, much, much rather give up Bobby Jenks in a deal instead of Tyler Flowers. I want to keep D2 also so we have a better chance of extending D1. But again, that's probably not enough.

 

If the Sox could get Brignac (or Wood/Aybar from the Angels, or some other SS from another team) for Jenks in a deal then that lets us keep Alexei. We'd still probably have to add Flowers or at least D2 in addition to other pieces, but if they want that I say no. And BTW, I'm not "hell bent" on gutting the farm. You don't acquire someone like Halladay without gutting the farm, and my proposal would attempt to keep a couple major pieces intact.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Roy Halladay has been arguably the best pitcher in baseball for the past couple years. With that said I do not want him as it would cost too much. Giving up Lexi and Danks and/or Jenks and a some of our best minor leaguers? I don't think so. Besides like others I'm sure have mentioned he's getting a little old with a ton of mileage on his arm and he's good for like a DL stint each year it seems.

Halladay is a different breed. Some pitchers are fine with regularly working deep into games and pitching lots of innings in a season. Most pitchers are not, but Halladay is not your average pitcher.

[Kalapse]

Roy Halladay has been arguably the best pitcher in baseball for the past couple years. With that said I do not want him as it would cost too much. Giving up Lexi and Danks and/or Jenks and a some of our best minor leaguers? I don't think so. Besides like others I'm sure have mentioned he's getting a little old with a ton of mileage on his arm and he's good for like a DL stint each year it seems.

I'd love to see this argument.

[fathom]

I'd love to see this argument.

 

Halladay's 2007 wasn't anything special

[Kyyle23]

I'd love to see this argument.

 

 

hmm, I am feeling a new thread in Diamond Club

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I'd love to see this argument.

Maybe not the last two, but over the last 8 I believe, nobody but Santana has been better.

[GreatScott82]

I really think the Phillies are going to crack and offer Drabek. If that happens expect to see him in a Phillies uniform soon.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...ml?eref=writers

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I really think the Phillies are going to crack and offer Drabek. If that happens expect to see him in a Phillies uniform soon.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...ml?eref=writers

Coming off a WS win you can't hardly blame them for going for it. I just hope it gets done soon if he really is going to Philly. And the NL has to be the Jays preference anyway.

[caulfield12]

Coming off a WS win you can't hardly blame them for going for it. I just hope it gets done soon if he really is going to Philly. And the NL has to be the Jays preference anyway.

 

 

We did the exact same thing in 2006 with the additions of Thome, Mackowiak, Vazquez, etc.

 

It just didn't work out...and Rollins is having a pretty horrible season offensively, they could use some help from the pitching to complement Utley and Howard. And of course, Werth wasn't going to continue to play like an All-Star.