spiderman Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 09:26 AM) If Halladay stays, I think Ricciardi has totally failed Why? Are you suggesting that Riccardi should take what he considers to be less than his full worth just to make a deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 09:19 AM) Why? Are you suggesting that Riccardi should take what he considers to be less than his full worth just to make a deal? Halladay is worth, to the Blue Jays anyway, what the market will bear. He is not going to win anything for them this year, most likely will not win anything for them next year. So he's basically worth 50-ish starts to them. In contrast, he's worth a chance to win a title to several other teams, and they are willing to pay for that chance. And that price is much better for the Blue Jays than keeping Halladay. Riccardi is simply trying to extract that precise maximum price he can and he is paying for it in terms of relationships and reputation (or at least it appears to from everything that is being printed in the media). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 10:19 AM) Why? Are you suggesting that Riccardi should take what he considers to be less than his full worth just to make a deal? I agree with what IamShack said, and would like to add that the longer Ricciardi drags this out(meaning, into the offseason and up to the trading deadline next year), the value of his return gets smaller and smaller, to the point where he is getting back 2 draft picks and nothing else. I understand Halladay is worth a lot. Teams out there are offering a lot, and Ricciardi is using Bavasi's idiocy as proof that he can get more, in the end it will not help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 I agree with what IamShack said, and would like to add that the longer Ricciardi drags this out(meaning, into the offseason and up to the trading deadline next year), the value of his return gets smaller and smaller, to the point where he is getting back 2 draft picks and nothing else. I understand Halladay is worth a lot. Teams out there are offering a lot, and Ricciardi is using Bavasi's idiocy as proof that he can get more, in the end it will not help him. I gotta believe somewhere in all this mess KW made a qualified offer for Halladay (On his terms obviously) based on the same prospects we offered for Peavy and a little more maybe. But there has been no mention of the Sox making any substantial offers ad that is the confusing part. I tend to think our offer is on par or a little less than what the Angels or Hpillies will ultimately offer. Who knows though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) I gotta believe somewhere in all this mess KW made a qualified offer for Halladay (On his terms obviously) based on the same prospects we offered for Peavy and a little more maybe. But there has been no mention of the Sox making any substantial offers ad that is the confusing part. I tend to think our offer is on par or a little less than what the Angels or Hpillies will ultimately offer. Who knows though. To be quite honest with you, we have not been linked to hardly anything by the national media thus far this deadline. We have gotten a little play from Rosenthal, and a few sparse updates from the Chicago media, but usually the White Sox get linked to nearly every major deal in the works. That has not happened this year. Perhaps Kenny has learned who was leaking things before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:11 PM) To be quite honest with you, we have not been linked to hardly anything by the national media thus far this deadline. We have gotten a little play from Rosenthal, and a few sparse updates from the Chicago media, but usually the White Sox get linked to nearly every major deal in the works. That has not happened this year. Perhaps Kenny has learned who was leaking things before... Or, he made his plays (Peavy, then Halladay) they weren't accepted...so now, he's done with high profile trades. I would bet he makes a Geoff Blum/Tony Pena-type trade tho before the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 plz a tony pena type deal!!!/green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:11 PM) Or, he made his plays (Peavy, then Halladay) they weren't accepted...so now, he's done with high profile trades. I would bet he makes a Geoff Blum/Tony Pena-type trade tho before the deadline. He has also supposedly been turned down for Dan Haren as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 He has also supposedly been turned down for Dan Haren as well. I still value Dan Haren more than Halladay at this point. But clearly he is about as untoucable as they come. I wonder who Ricciardi was demanding if he did indeed give any demands to KW as ridiculous as they may. I don't blame him for salivating over Becks, who wouldn't?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 01:28 PM) He has also supposedly been turned down for Dan Haren as well. I don't believe a thing Cowley or Levine say. I have a hard time believing Kenny could have been trying that hard to get Haren and the only guys that get a whiff of it are these two hacks? I dunno....seems funny that everything the Red Sox are doing and the Rays are doing is all over the media and a play like that by Kenny falls on deaf ears....hard to believe, that's all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 I don't believe a thing Cowley or Levine say. I have a hard time believing Kenny could have been trying that hard to get Haren and the only guys that get a whiff of it are these two hacks? I dunno....seems funny that everything the Red Sox are doing and the Rays are doing is all over the media and a play like that by Kenny falls on deaf ears....hard to believe, that's all... It is pretty much like most trading deadlines. He lays low and then boom he does something. But maybe this year much to our disliking he really is planning for next year. Hard to imagine he is happy to say this team will win the division in it's current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:44 PM) It is pretty much like most trading deadlines. He lays low and then boom he does something. But maybe this year much to our disliking he really is planning for next year. Hard to imagine he is happy to say this team will win the division in it's current form. I don't know about that. Despite the fact that the things that get reported do not seem to come to fruition very often, we are usually included in nearly every big deal that gets talked about...the only real credible thing I have heard in the last week is the stuff about us trying to get Matt Holliday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 I don't know about that. Despite the fact that the things that get reported do not seem to come to fruition very often, we are usually included in nearly every big deal that gets talked about...the only real credible thing I have heard in the last week is the stuff about us trying to get Matt Holliday. Yeah but most of us agree that the majority of stuff you hear is crap these writers make up or really is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Yeah but most of us agree that the majority of stuff you hear is crap these writers make up or really is not true. Possibly. I think a few do a really great job - namely Ken Rosenthal. Jon Heyman seems like he has good sources as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Yeah but most of us agree that the majority of stuff you hear is crap these writers make up or really is not true. I would say after listening to baseball people talk, the majority of it is true, it is just nearly impossible to put everything together to pull off a blockbuster trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 If Lee is indeed going to the Phillies - we may see Doc Halladay in CHicago after all. I think our package isn't the best but I Boston will reduce it's offer because they'll have the upperhand now and I think JP really wants to avoid dealign in division. Just a thought - but whatever our first offer was may look a lot better when JP hears about how he blew it again and sees teams pulling out their bids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) If Lee is indeed going to the Phillies - we may see Doc Halladay in CHicago after all. I think our package isn't the best but I Boston will reduce it's offer because they'll have the upperhand now and I think JP really wants to avoid dealign in division. Just a thought - but whatever our first offer was may look a lot better when JP hears about how he blew it again and sees teams pulling out their bids. nope, not coming here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 12:19 PM) nope, not coming here Odds are slim to none. I should've just said I can see it happening, where before, I had trouble seeing us landing a deal without putting in Beckham. Without Philly involved and with Boston not needing to put the world into a trade - I saw our package as being one of the remaining decent ones from a contender. I have little doubt that Kenny will consider or has already checked back in on what we proposed now that Ricciardi is seeing his pipe dream of prospects disappear. Ricciardi will probably sit with what they have until the offseason or next deadline. He'll get way less and he'll probably posture the whole time but it just isn't smart business for them and the dude needs to go. Edited July 29, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 My guess is that the White Sox made the courtesy call a few weeks back to see what the asking price would be, and were not about to meet their price, so I'm not really thinking that the Sox were much more than a minor player anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Can Halladay get clutch hits? Can he run? Can he stay healthy? Can he play a good field? No he's a starting pitcher? The ONE THING on this squad that IS A STRENGTH? I love Doc, but WHY? What is the difference between Richard, Floyd, Danks or Buehrle losing 2-1 or 3-2 than Halladay? Our starting pitching needs no help at this time. NONE...we have other serious issues that need to be dealt with first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Apparently the Angels GM said that the Halladay to the Angels was 50/50. Thats what I heard on the radio at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) Apparently the Angels GM said that the Halladay to the Angels was 50/50. Thats what I heard on the radio at least. Well I heard that it is 50/50 that he is NOT going to the Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) LOL Package of players I've seen in a deal for Halladay by the Angels are absolutely awful. Latest was brutal, Saunders, Aybar and Wood. Waited a yr or two too late to offer that one up. Toronto should just hold onto him till next year's deadline and if they are out of it then trade him for young talent while they can. Red Sox from what I've seen are the only team offering some players that are worth a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Keith Law was on today and said he'd be surprised if he got traded and in his opinion anyone that traded him should be doing it because he puts you in the playoffs, not because he gives you a better shot at the World Series (ie, don't do what the Angels did for Tex because Tex was acquired solely to help them in the post-season). Basically put, Law's stance is that the only way it makes sense to give up a ton is if it puts your team into the playoffs because at that point everything is a crap-shoot. So if you agree with him, than Halladay would make a lot of sense for the White Sox because his addition might be the difference maker. I reiterate that the price is still too steap. If we can build the package around Alexei Ramirez, Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda than I'd dance though and I really do think that is a really fair package or at least starting point (Jays aren't looking for fair though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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