fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (elmo9246 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:29 PM) I don't know as much as I'd love to see Halladay and as much as I prefer proven talent I just think we'd need to give up wayy too much to get him. I agree. With the offensive players we're likely to lose after this year (Dye and Thome), I don't want all of our resources going to one pitcher (and it would be for only one full season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I just really don't want to give up Flowers in a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Bear in mind one of the caveats has to be a negotiating window to allow KW the opportunity to offer him an extension, 2-3 years. That is a solid return on investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:45 PM) Bear in mind one of the caveats has to be a negotiating window to allow KW the opportunity to offer him an extension, 2-3 years. That is a solid return on investment. But why in the world would Halladay do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I think he's pretty much ours if we want him. Although it's difficult to know just what the package for Peavy was, considering there were two PTBNL's, but my guess is you throw in 1 more of Flowers, Allen, or Danks2 and the deal gets done. The idea KHP brought up regarding Rolen is interesting. If taking back Rolen allows you to subtract the addition of Flowers, Allen or Danks, and throw in Fields instead, that is definitely something worth considering. I think this is just going to be something where Kenny has to decide how far he would like to go. One has to believe he will balk at Flowers and Allen, just because they have a place on this team most likely in 2011 (and replace guys that are moving on after 2010). But would he be willing to trade Danks and what affect could that have on Johnny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:45 PM) But why in the world would Halladay do that? Because he wants the hell out of Canada at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I honestly don't believe Allen would be a huge piece in any trade. He's a solid prospect, but he's definitely not a game-changing prospect with regards to a trade package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:47 PM) Because he wants the hell out of Canada at this point? Yes, but why agree to an extension now when he could be a free agent in a year and have the bigger market teams involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I trade Beckham for Halladay. I also include Fields for Rolen and cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:49 PM) I trade Beckham for Halladay. I also include Fields for Rolen and cash. I'm glad you're not our GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 There is no way you deal Beckham. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) There is no way you deal Beckham. Sorry. For Haren? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 One big thing to remember is that Toronto has a lot of good young pitching, especially LHP. Thus, Richard and Poreda are a lot less valuable to them than they would have been to San Diego. Thus, that's why you'll hear names like Beckham and Flowers in any trade for Halladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:48 PM) Yes, but why agree to an extension now when he could be a free agent in a year and have the bigger market teams involved? Because whether or not he agrees to an extension is a large factor in the package the Jays get for him, meaning whether or not they accept a deal for him. If he agrees to an extension, they'll get more pieces back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) For Haren? Possibly, and that's only cause we have some infield depth in our system. I love Beckham, but that deal could be too good to pass up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) There is no way you deal Beckham. Sorry. That is where the conversation will end as that is the Jays biggest need. The Jays are trading Halladay for a sure thing to fit in with their young talent. Beckham is the closest thing the Sox have to that. His contract is not that the Sox can get him for the suspect prospects that they were for Peavy. Sorry but Flowers, Poreda and Richard are not getting you the best pitcher in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) I honestly don't believe Allen would be a huge piece in any trade. He's a solid prospect, but he's definitely not a game-changing prospect with regards to a trade package. I think Allen is a very good prospect and I expect him to be a good major leaguer. However, I think he has far more value to the White Sox than to anyone else. Similar to Josh Fields and maybe even Clayton Richard now, as he has been struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:55 PM) Because whether or not he agrees to an extension is a large factor in the package the Jays get for him, meaning whether or not they accept a deal for him. If he agrees to an extension, they'll get more pieces back. Unless some team goes nuts and offers him an extension like 3 years, 60 million, there's just no reason for him to not become a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) One big thing to remember is that Toronto has a lot of good young pitching, especially LHP. Thus, Richard and Poreda are a lot less valuable to them than they would have been to San Diego. Thus, that's why you'll hear names like Beckham and Flowers in any trade for Halladay. They also are going to be stacked in the OF, with Wells, Rios, Lind and Snider. Even more reason you'll hear Flowers and Beckham... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) Unless some team goes nuts and offers him an extension like 3 years, 60 million, there's just no reason for him to not become a free agent. Unless he's hiding a minor injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) Unless some team goes nuts and offers him an extension like 3 years, 60 million, there's just no reason for him to not become a free agent. There is if it makes the Jays decide not the deal him because the package isn't good enough. If you're KW, my guess is you're willing to extend him for 2 years and $30 million beyond his current contract. That might be plenty for Halladay to decide he would give up the right to pursue FA if it gives him a chance to play for a contender this season and the next 3 afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:00 PM) There is if it makes the Jays decide not the deal him because the package isn't good enough. If you're KW, my guess is you're willing to extend him for 2 years and $30 million beyond his current contract. That might be plenty for Halladay to decide he would give up the right to pursue FA if it gives him a chance to play for a contender this season and the next 3 afterwards. I guess we'll just disagree, as he would get way more than 15 million on the open market and could go to any team he wants (including teams he might feel like are in a better chance to contend, like Yanks/Red Sox/Dodgers for the next few years). You have to remember that the general consensus in baseball is that the Sox are an aging team with their big named offensive guys on their last legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) I guess we'll just disagree, as he would get way more than 15 million on the open market and could go to any team he wants (including teams he might feel like are in a better chance to contend, like Yanks/Red Sox/Dodgers for the next few years). You have to remember that the general consensus in baseball is that the Sox are an aging team with their big named offensive guys on their last legs. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that he could probably get more than $15 million. He could probably get close to $20 million. But you're missing the fact that the Blue Jays still have to agree to move him. And they may not agree to do that if the packages offered are skimpy because the teams offering them have no reassurance he'll stay beyond 2010. Which means that he could be stuck in Toronto for another year and a half. Perhaps it is worth it to him to give up $3-5 million a year for two years in order to get the hell out of Canada? Edited July 7, 2009 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I'm very curious to see what he'd go for on the open market. In this market, we could all be very surprised at what a low number it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:37 PM) I just really don't want to give up Flowers in a deal. I think giving up Flowers at his peak value would be brilliant. Saltalamacchia had huge value a few years ago, but everyone has finally realized he's a DH. Same with Flowers... he's a DH masquerading as a catcher for now. It'd be smart to deal him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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