brendol Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 We arent getting Halladay. If we do, it would completely drain our minor league system. We arent serious contenders as it is, so i doubt kenny will do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 02:11 PM) I think giving up Flowers at his peak value would be brilliant. Saltalamacchia had huge value a few years ago, but everyone has finally realized he's a DH. Same with Flowers... he's a DH masquerading as a catcher for now. It'd be smart to deal him. Trading any of our young guys away, when we are on the verge of reloading our rosters is short sighted and will cost us in the long run. This is a flawed team, and the idea of mortgaging the future for slight chance is not worth it. If we get into the playoffs we are already okay from a pitching standpoint. Our pitching is far from the problem this year. We are near the top in the AL in pitching, and our top 4 pretty much match up with anyone in a series. AJ is older Thome is old Dye is older and needs to be a DH soon. Konerko is older. This needs to be replaced in the short term, not the long term. I am not saying that all of our prospects are going to pan out, but they sure as hell can get you pieces for the long term. In this of all economies, young cheap talent is worth as much as gold. We only have to look back a few years on how emptying the system can screw us on a future deal. We could have Miguel Cabrera here right now if we didnt have a weak system at the time. Doc is a great pitcher, but its not our time yet for these types of deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I like " The Doc", But not for price which everyone think it's going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamPabloOzuna Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 the guy from MLBTR is crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (brendol @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:21 PM) We arent getting Halladay. If we do, it would completely drain our minor league system. We arent serious contenders as it is, so i doubt kenny will do that. Tell me what team is going to want to go into the playoffs and face Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, and Contreras? Tell me what team is going to want to go into the playoffs and face a 2005-esque Scotty Pods, a potentially healthy Carlos Quentin, and a JD/PK that have found themselves again? If we landed Roy Halladay without losing Beckham, we become instant SERIOUS contenders in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (brendol @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 02:21 PM) We arent getting Halladay. If we do, it would completely drain our minor league system. We arent serious contenders as it is, so i doubt kenny will do that. "Those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (IamPabloOzuna @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) the guy from MLBTR is crazy The MLBTR guys are bloggers and armchair GM's in general, just like us, except they don't know anywhere near as much about the Sox as we do. The writers are there to collect articles so we don't have to bother checking 100 different publications. Their opinions aren't really worth anything. Flowers + Viciedo + Poreda + Hudson + Carter should get Halladay on a plane right now, but I highly doubt we'd do anything like that. Beckham definitely makes it happen. To say we might not part with a package that the Jays want is one thing, but to suggest we don't have the pieces is just a lack of knowledge. That's why the guys at BA, ESPN, etc. are supposed to do these chats and the MLBTR guys are not supposed to do them, because even if you disagree with the mainstream guys, they still at least know their farm systems. IMO if MLBTR wants to do these things they should hire better personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) The playoff teams are more likely to represent the 2008 Rays, certainly not the last place 2008 Tigers. Detroit finished 4th in the American League in runs scored last year. The offense was actually pretty darn solid. Not to mention that was their World Series as well. It's obvious that you just have a vendetta against Gavin, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) I honestly don't believe Allen would be a huge piece in any trade. He's a solid prospect, but he's definitely not a game-changing prospect with regards to a trade package. Completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 If you trade for Halladay without an extension you are also getting back two comp picks in the 2011 draft if he does not re-sign to help compensate for the prospects that it will take to land him. It is likely that either of those two picks will be better than most of the prospects that are being discussed being traded. With Halladay the team has a legit shot at two WS runs in the next two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 02:11 PM) I think giving up Flowers at his peak value would be brilliant. Saltalamacchia had huge value a few years ago, but everyone has finally realized he's a DH. Same with Flowers... he's a DH masquerading as a catcher for now. It'd be smart to deal him. Well every indication is that Flowers has made huge strides as a catcher, so to say he's only going to be a DH at this point is way premature. That being said, I wouldn't even hesitate to trade Flowers for a guy like Halladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Per Cowley's twitter, Ozzie says landing Halladay is a big fairy tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) We just need offense. Get me another 380 obp guy or two and i'm all set. Hope CQ is one of em Granted Halladay would outstanding to have in a 7 game series but without the above i dont know that we even get to one. Edited July 7, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchtower41 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 03:39 PM) Well every indication is that Flowers has made huge strides as a catcher, so to say he's only going to be a DH at this point is way premature. That being said, I wouldn't even hesitate to trade Flowers for a guy like Halladay. So we should all assume the exact opposite , considering this site is a better source than that clown Cowley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) I have this feeling that they drafted that recent catcher knowing Flowers could be trade bait. I know you stockpile people and that people change positions, but Flowers seems like the quintessential 'might not pan out but has loads of intrigue for now' asset Cant really trade him for a guy who makes Javy look like nothing though, he'll have to be in an impressive package sadly I also believe Ozzie wouldnt tell Cowley that if it wasnt looking pretty sure that we're gonna tweak roster and little else Edited July 7, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 04:36 PM) So we should all assume the exact opposite , considering this site is a better source than that clown Cowley. I'm starting to think Cowley reads this site for information. Which I guess means he's a pretty tough guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 So we should all assume the exact opposite , considering this site is a better source than that clown Cowley. Why slam Cowley? He is a good writer and makes his stuff available immediately on twitter. If you read this site, Mr. Cowley, I think you do a fine job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 04:49 PM) Why slam Cowley? He is a good writer and makes his stuff available immediately on twitter. If you read this site, Mr. Cowley, I think you do a fine job. Thanks Greg, I'm glad I have at least one fan on this boa.... oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 02:38 PM) I have this feeling that they drafted that recent catcher knowing Flowers could be trade bait. I know you stockpile people and that people change positions, but Flowers seems like the quintessential 'might not pan out but has loads of intrigue for now' asset Cant really trade him for a guy who makes Javy look like nothing though, he'll have to be in an impressive package sadly I see where you're going, but I just can't get past the big board perspective. It looks to be this simple to me; this teams' catching spot was a disaster for years before we signed AJ. Unfortunately, AJ isn't immortal; he's getting up there in years at a very demanding position, and his contract runs through the end of 2010. Quite simply, best case scenario for our catching position is we need a new catcher on opening day of 2011. Worst case scenario we need one sooner. Even if we try to extend AJ's deal, to start the 2011 season he'll be 34 years old. There is every reason to expect he's going to start simply wearing down pretty soon. Tyler Flowers right now looks like he's on track to be able to hit the big leagues at least part time next year, and perhaps take over a position full time in 2011. That's exactly the schedule we need a catcher to be on. Maybe in the back rooms they've decided they don't like him and they need to move him before other people decide not to like him, but simply, he's on the right schedule to be exactly what we need when we need it. Moving him now is committing to either spending a lot of money to keep AJ for 2011 at age 34 and beyond as the starter and gambling he won't show a dropoff or start getting hurt until the other guy we drafted is up a few years later, or it's condemning us to the catching debacle we had in the early 2000's, catcher after catcher, Jamie Burke after Ben Davis, random trades for Sandy Alomar, and on and on, unless we decide to blow serious money on that position in the FA market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 While its probably a longshot Halladay is ever a White Sox, if it was because of a reluctance to give up Tyler Flowers or Jordan Danks, it would be stupid. This is one of the best if not the best pitcher in baseball. Everyone at AA and AAA should be fair game for Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 03:30 PM) While its probably a longshot Halladay is ever a White Sox, if it was because of a reluctance to give up Tyler Flowers or Jordan Danks, it would be stupid. This is one of the best if not the best pitcher in baseball. Everyone at AA and AAA should be fair game for Toronto. Jordan Danks is not an option because of his brother and we all ought to understand that. Both he and his brother switched agents and specifically worked with this team. If you're trading Jordan, you better be dealing John at the same time, because otherwise, you're taking advantage of that family and treating them like garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) Jordan Danks is not an option because of his brother and we all ought to understand that. Both he and his brother switched agents and specifically worked with this team. If you're trading Jordan, you better be dealing John at the same time, because otherwise, you're taking advantage of that family and treating them like garbage. BS. Jordan Danks was taken care of quite nicely for a 7th round draft pick. If trading him gives the White Sox a better chance to win, they won't keep him around because he's John's little brother, and I'm sure if Roy Halladay came back in the deal, John might understand pretty well, especially if he was getting sized for a ring a little while later. I'm not saying KW will openly shop Jordan, but if Toronto said he needed to be included to get Halladay, and the package is reasonable enough to KW, he'd be gone. For all I know Toronto has enough OF anyway, but to say he's not available when attempting to acquire a player of Halladay's ilk, it would be stupid. Edited July 7, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 04:34 PM) We just need offense. Get me another 380 obp guy or two and i'm all set. Scott Rolan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Wow 15 pages on a rumor that hasn't even mentioned us yet? Damn... Halladay might actually take a Gavin Floyd + prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 03:36 PM) BS. Jordan Danks was taken care of quite nicely for a 7th round draft pick. If trading him gives the White Sox a better chance to win, they won't keep him around because he's John's little brother, and I'm sure if Roy Halladay came back in the deal, John might understand pretty well, especially if he was getting sized for a ring a little while later. I'm not saying KW will openly shop Jordan, but if Toronto said he needed to be included to get Halladay, and the package is reasonable enough to KW, he'd be gone. For all I know Toronto has enough OF anyway, but to say he's not available when attempting to acquire a player of Halladay's ilk, it would be stupid. I stand by my point. I think the Sox make it a point to try to be a better organization than that to people, and I think it benefits them in the long term. Where could we ever get off asking again a person to switch his agent away from Boras if that's what we do to a family that listens to our request? Why would you willingly sign a contract with that team if you're a FA? Wouldn't you demand extra NTC protection, that sort of thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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