beck72 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 12:59 AM) Seems like Nyjer Morgan could have been had easily. I was on board to go after him. The sox could have made a decent offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 08:32 PM) I was on board to go after him. The sox could have made a decent offer. Two slap hitting outfielders? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I'd REALLY love to have Holliday. Holliday and Quentin as our corner outfielders next year would be awesome. I'm also a big Dejesus fan because he can play all 3 outfield positions and is a lefty, batting him 9th in our lineup would be REALLY nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) The Sox M.O. in the past has been to "overpay" in terms of prospects in deals, in order to get cash back or to get better players. Key word there is better. If Quentin is healthy and Dye continues to produce, you aren't going to find much better production than the Sox have without giving up a torso along with that arm and leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:13 AM) Key word there is better. If Quentin is healthy and Dye continues to produce, you aren't going to find much better production than the Sox have without giving up a torso along with that arm and leg. Best case is no one gets hurt, and everyone stays fresh, and the bat they get may have to be moved around to see action[as a healthy Pods and Q should outproduce whoever they get]. Yet without adding another OFer who can hit and defend [better than what BA and Wise can give the sox], so the sox can rest Quentin, Dye, Thome and Pods, everything has to go perfect: Q can't re-injure his foot; a 38 and 35 year old [the teams' #3 and #4 hitters] have to keep producing during the hardest part of the season [the heat, playing through minor injuries, being worn down]; the SP has to keep producing; the bullpen can't have let downs; the defense can't get worse than how bad it's been. I'm not saying to acquire an All Star and have the guy as a backup. Or who could outproduce Pods, Q or Dye. But the sox need another OFer who could be a regular everyday player. BA and Wise are not. I liken it to the sox having Uribe last year. If he wasn't around for 3b when Crede went down, the sox don't make the playoffs. Right now, one of the Sox OFers go down, the sox don't have a guy who can step in and play without a MAJOR drop off in production. Someone who can hit .250, play solid defense, and play more than one OF spot would fit my requirements [like I have a say]. If the sox think Jordan Danks can do that, great. He's farther along than most people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 02:52 AM) Two slap hitting outfielders? No thanks. A guy who could have played LF or CF, played solid defense, hit .290, post a .350 OBP, and hit a leadoff should Pods go down, for the equivalent of Brian Anderson and Kyle McCulloch [roughly what Milledge was worth]? Yeah right, no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 06:25 AM) Best case is no one gets hurt, and everyone stays fresh, and the bat they get may have to be moved around to see action[as a healthy Pods and Q should outproduce whoever they get]. Yet without adding another OFer who can hit and defend [better than what BA and Wise can give the sox], so the sox can rest Quentin, Dye, Thome and Pods, everything has to go perfect: Q can't re-injure his foot; a 38 and 35 year old [the teams' #3 and #4 hitters] have to keep producing during the hardest part of the season [the heat, playing through minor injuries, being worn down]; the SP has to keep producing; the bullpen can't have let downs; the defense can't get worse than how bad it's been. I'm not saying to acquire an All Star and have the guy as a backup. Or who could outproduce Pods, Q or Dye. But the sox need another OFer who could be a regular everyday player. BA and Wise are not. I liken it to the sox having Uribe last year. If he wasn't around for 3b when Crede went down, the sox don't make the playoffs. Right now, one of the Sox OFers go down, the sox don't have a guy who can step in and play without a MAJOR drop off in production. Someone who can hit .250, play solid defense, and play more than one OF spot would fit my requirements [like I have a say]. If the sox think Jordan Danks can do that, great. He's farther along than most people think. I imagine the Sox would rather not give up their minor league talent when they may have such players in Wise and Anderson, and potentially even Cook, Kroeger, and Danks (though that is likely a year early), while they may also be able to find a AAA player in someone else's organization for a nobody from the minors. There's really no need at this point to trade for an MLB 4th outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Best case is no one gets hurt, and everyone stays fresh, and the bat they get may have to be moved around to see action[as a healthy Pods and Q should outproduce whoever they get]. Yet without adding another OFer who can hit and defend [better than what BA and Wise can give the sox], so the sox can rest Quentin, Dye, Thome and Pods, everything has to go perfect: Q can't re-injure his foot; a 38 and 35 year old [the teams' #3 and #4 hitters] have to keep producing during the hardest part of the season [the heat, playing through minor injuries, being worn down]; the SP has to keep producing; the bullpen can't have let downs; the defense can't get worse than how bad it's been. I'm not saying to acquire an All Star and have the guy as a backup. Or who could outproduce Pods, Q or Dye. But the sox need another OFer who could be a regular everyday player. BA and Wise are not. I liken it to the sox having Uribe last year. If he wasn't around for 3b when Crede went down, the sox don't make the playoffs. Right now, one of the Sox OFers go down, the sox don't have a guy who can step in and play without a MAJOR drop off in production. Someone who can hit .250, play solid defense, and play more than one OF spot would fit my requirements [like I have a say]. If the sox think Jordan Danks can do that, great. He's farther along than most people think. Beck, correct me if I am wrong in agreeing with you but even with the upside Danks has he is not as far along in his dev as Beckham was to consider throwing him into AAA for a short spell and then the bigs? Think he is at least another year plus away and better suited to start or crack the line up in 2011. A ST invote for next year might not be impossible if he rakes in AA at BHam but that is as far as I see him progressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) I imagine the Sox would rather not give up their minor league talent when they may have such players in Wise and Anderson, and potentially even Cook, Kroeger, and Danks (though that is likely a year early), while they may also be able to find a AAA player in someone else's organization for a nobody from the minors. There's really no need at this point to trade for an MLB 4th outfielder. that's really the point. the need may come after the deadline, when only guys with huge bloated contracts will pass through waivers, not young guys who can potentially be part of the 2010, 2011 squad. And Norris Hopper prob. doesn't qualify I'm talking about acquiring someone on another team's 40 man roster, who could contribute basically right away. Listening to the Sox postgame on the score yesterday, Mark Gonzalez said that Kenny gave his scouts orders at the end of spring to search the minors for OFers who could help the sox. So far, no names besides Hopper have come the sox way. [Although Pods prob. qualifies]. The sox don't even have an OFer in AAA who could help them. Unless the sox think Danks could outperform BA and Wise right away [which he prob. could], I have no problem not getting another OFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) Beck, correct me if I am wrong in agreeing with you but even with the upside Danks has he is not as far along in his dev as Beckham was to consider throwing him into AAA for a short spell and then the bigs? Think he is at least another year plus away and better suited to start or crack the line up in 2011. A ST invote for next year might not be impossible if he rakes in AA at BHam but that is as far as I see him progressing. Danks seems closer than 2011. He's older than Beckham [by more than a month ], and he was even hitting better than Gordon at AA before sliding down. Who knows if he's "hit the wall" or coming back down to earth, but Jordan seems to have the tools to be on a faster track than 2011. I was just saying if the sox thought Danks could come up this year and step in [and outproduce Wise / BA] if someone went down, then it made sense not to get another OFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 01:20 PM) The Sox can't take the chance to be left with little OF depth before the trade deadline. They need to add an OFer, esp. someone who can play a solid CF, and also be able to play RF or LF. I know Carlos is due back. Best case scenario would him being healthy and playing 5 times a week in LF. With him still not running well, I don't see that happening. Worst case, he gets hurt and misses significant time. Yet I see him taking a lot of time at DH, resting Thome vs. LHP, if he stays healthy. And that's a big IF. The other thing to consider in adding another OFer would be that the sox can keep Dye and Thome fresh [i don't see Konerko getting much of a rest, other than having Fields spell him once a week]. By Thome's comments from last night-'I felt like a kid after getting 4 dyas off'-the sox need to keep their big bats fresh for the 2nd half. Adding another bat who can contribute more than what BA and Wise have, is a must. The sox won't go anywhere with a weakened, worn out middle of the order. If the sox have to start Wise or BA, the other big bats won't get much time off. The question is who to add. It prob. won't be a rental. Someone who can contribute in 2010 and beyond would prob. be best. Alos, the names who'll be FA's after 2009 out there don't really seem to add much to the sox [besides prob. Holliday]. *Alex Rios. He's got a full NTC. His contract is low this yr, [$5.9 mill.] and wouldn't cost the sox much additional cash this year, or a huge boatload of talent, esp. from previous years. A good "buy low" possibility. The questions would be 1] if the sox think Rios is worth the $60 some mill. over the next 6 years, and 2] if the sox could swing a deal. I'd be a fan of this, as Rios can play CF, Pods play LF, CQ could play some RF and DH. *Vernon Wells. He's owed $98.5 mill over the next 5 yrs. No dice unless the Jays paid a ton of that deal. And Wells has a NTC. *David DeJesus. Not a big fan. He's avg. in LF and CF would be horrible. He'd likely cost a lot in terms of talent. But he'd be an improvement over BA and Wise. And he's owed only $4.7 mill. for 2010, with a $6 mill club opt. for 2011. *Matt Holliday. I know the A's are asking for two top prospects. Even with offering him arb [he might not get a deal for more than his $13.5 mill this yr], I don't see him as fit, as he plays LF. Depends on if Fields could be one key guy included. *Mark Teahan. Can only play the corners. Also likely cost a lot in terms of talent. *Juan Pierre. He's still owed $18.5 mill. for the next two years. Having to LFers w/ below avg. arms in the same OF? Not a good prospect. I'm just not seeing a whole lot out there. But the Sox can't keep playing Wise or BA regularly. Even with CQ coming back, an OFer will still need to play a lot to keep Carlos from re-injuring his foot. And to provide insurance in case Pods or Dye get hurt. What other names are out there? Or should the sox add another starting pitcher--someone who takes the pressure off the offense? Looks like I called this one. Kotsay fits most of my criteria, though he doesn't seem to play much CF anymore. He does play 1b, so Paulie can get a rest. Not too bad of a pick up for what's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I kind of shake my head a bit over the issue of giving CQ a rest-maybe what we need is CQ to start hitting the ball and that will give us some insurance. Kotsay for Anderson is not the answer for anything in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:35 PM) I kind of shake my head a bit over the issue of giving CQ a rest-maybe what we need is CQ to start hitting the ball and that will give us some insurance. Kotsay for Anderson is not the answer for anything in my book Would you agree that keeping CQ healthy is the best thing for the sox org. in the short and long term? So far, the injury has only seem to have affected his swing--though he wasn't swinging the bat well prior to getting hurt. CQ has been able to move pretty well on defense. But if Kotsay can provide some players with a rest-including CQ, but more PK, Dye, and Thome-without hurting the offense, it would be a net positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) The Sox can't take the chance to be left with little OF depth before the trade deadline. They need to add an OFer, esp. someone who can play a solid CF, and also be able to play RF or LF. I know Carlos is due back. Best case scenario would him being healthy and playing 5 times a week in LF. With him still not running well, I don't see that happening. Worst case, he gets hurt and misses significant time. Yet I see him taking a lot of time at DH, resting Thome vs. LHP, if he stays healthy. And that's a big IF. The other thing to consider in adding another OFer would be that the sox can keep Dye and Thome fresh [i don't see Konerko getting much of a rest, other than having Fields spell him once a week]. By Thome's comments from last night-'I felt like a kid after getting 4 dyas off'-the sox need to keep their big bats fresh for the 2nd half. Adding another bat who can contribute more than what BA and Wise have, is a must. The sox won't go anywhere with a weakened, worn out middle of the order. If the sox have to start Wise or BA, the other big bats won't get much time off. The question is who to add. It prob. won't be a rental. Someone who can contribute in 2010 and beyond would prob. be best. Alos, the names who'll be FA's after 2009 out there don't really seem to add much to the sox [besides prob. Holliday]. *Alex Rios. He's got a full NTC. His contract is low this yr, [$5.9 mill.] and wouldn't cost the sox much additional cash this year, or a huge boatload of talent, esp. from previous years. A good "buy low" possibility. The questions would be 1] if the sox think Rios is worth the $60 some mill. over the next 6 years, and 2] if the sox could swing a deal. I'd be a fan of this, as Rios can play CF, Pods play LF, CQ could play some RF and DH. *Vernon Wells. He's owed $98.5 mill over the next 5 yrs. No dice unless the Jays paid a ton of that deal. And Wells has a NTC. *David DeJesus. Not a big fan. He's avg. in LF and CF would be horrible. He'd likely cost a lot in terms of talent. But he'd be an improvement over BA and Wise. And he's owed only $4.7 mill. for 2010, with a $6 mill club opt. for 2011. *Matt Holliday. I know the A's are asking for two top prospects. Even with offering him arb [he might not get a deal for more than his $13.5 mill this yr], I don't see him as fit, as he plays LF. Depends on if Fields could be one key guy included. *Mark Teahan. Can only play the corners. Also likely cost a lot in terms of talent. *Juan Pierre. He's still owed $18.5 mill. for the next two years. Having to LFers w/ below avg. arms in the same OF? Not a good prospect. I'm just not seeing a whole lot out there. But the Sox can't keep playing Wise or BA regularly. Even with CQ coming back, an OFer will still need to play a lot to keep Carlos from re-injuring his foot. And to provide insurance in case Pods or Dye get hurt. What other names are out there? Or should the sox add another starting pitcher--someone who takes the pressure off the offense? If the Sox did make a claim on him, it's good to see KW listening to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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