7/18 games

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

1) I used Kendrick not from defensive positional value, but as a distinctive contact hitter, whereas Swisher had a patience and drive approach. They both have two distinctive approaches at the plate, thus allowing us to compare and contrast the value of each apporach.

2) Where? CF? RF? LF? 1b?

3) One can get on base via a walk, HBP or a hit. Getting on base puts you in the position to score, making yourself an asset to the team.

4) Batting Average takes two things into account. Hits per AB, ultimately it doesn't allow for anything outside of those two categories and is thus less valuable then the overarching OBP and OPS categories

5) No. Swisher's OBP matters in that he is getting on base. Whether he gets driven in (runs) had no bearing in this debate

6) Swisher averages 25 hr's and 88's RBI that's more than adequate for a guy who can play RF, CF, LF and 1b.

1) A contact hitter on the level of Kendrick would have to be pretty special to stick in an OF corner or at 1B. Kendrick's style fits 2B just fine, and he has the ability to either lead or rank top-5 in terms of 2B in several major offensive categories. Swisher OTOH will never lead corner OF/1B/DH's in anything sans maybe strikeouts.

 

2) Swisher is average in his natural positions. In CF he's a lot better offensively, but that doesn't matter much because he's not a CF and never belonged there in the first place.

 

3) Am I saying OBP isn't important? You said batting average has little bearing on how many runs a team scores. When your hits are allowing you to score runs, or when your hits are driving someone in, then your batting average counts towards run production. Getting on base without a hit only matters when you are driven in or when you happen to pick up an RBI because of a bases loaded situation.

 

4) Why does batting average have to mean anything other than hits per AB to be important? I'm not understanding where you're going with this.

 

OBP and OPS are better??? I talked about the problems with viewing OBP as being more important than average in another post, so I'm not going back to that topic again.

 

OPS is the most abused stat of all and only has meaning when you're talking about or comparing players who are expected to both 1) get on base, and 2) hit for power. Comparing corner OF's is a fine use for OPS because generally players at those spots are expected to get on and slug. However, a slick defensive SS for example who hits for very little power but has a high average and uses speed, and is a typical 1/2/9 hitter, should NEVER be compared with an average or below-average corner OF who has a higher OPS. People do that stuff all the time, completely misrepresenting the usefulness statistic. Batting average OTOH always has its uses.

 

5) So wait, you're telling me that OBP is more important than batting average. You say batting average has little bearing on runs scored. Then you say Swisher's OBP is always important regardless of whether he scores after getting on base? How biased is that? One stat (batting average) only means something sometimes, but OBP is important all the time? No matter what, if you don't score and if you don't at least do something positive in an AB then your AB doesn't help your team.

 

My point was that because Swisher is generally a bottom-of-the-order hitter on most teams in baseball, he's not going to score as frequently when he does get on as those batting higher than him. Ex. Swisher getting on at a .360 clip in the 7 spot is not as helpful as a lead-off hitter getting on at a .360 clip to start the game. And beyond that, it also matters what you do with your OBP. Swisher gets on and he's probably just going to stand there until someone else advances him, and it's not like he's scoring from first on a double, and it's not like he's going to break up a ton of double plays either. OBP is a lot more important to a player who has the speed to either steal a bag, or increase his chances of scoring, or help stay out of double plays. What I'm saying here is you just can't look at OBP as being equally important for everyone.

 

Also, Mike Jacobs got on at a .299 clip last year, but he hit 32 HR and drove in 93 runs, and his SLG% weighted his OPS to .813. He scored 67 runs. Swisher this year is getting on at .359 clip, and slugging .461 for an OPS of .820. Swisher has driven in 47 and scored 43 times, and keep in mind that he's doing this in the Yankees' lineup in the Yankees' new park while Jacobs did it with the Marlins in their big stadium and in a far weaker lineup. Who do you think was more valuable to their team? Swisher because his OBP helped him score some runs at the bottom of the lineup, or Jacobs who didn't get on much at all but actually made use of his AB's by swinging at the baseball and driving in runs instead of just standing there with his thumb up his ass with two strikes?

 

6) Swisher is adequate if you mean about league average production overall. If you mean to say he's an average or mediocre player, then you're right. If you mean to say those numbers mean he's better than that, then that's not the case.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

As a hitter you only control your hitting. A fielder slipping is lucky for the hitter because he had no control over it. We might as well stop this because your stance is so far from mine it's actually hilarious to me.

So the hitter wasn't skilled when he saw the pitch, made contact, and put it in play to force the defense? Did luck make him hustle down to first?

 

Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.