Ozzie and his Usage of Aaron Poreda.

[ThunderBolt]

Remember that argument we were having about Ozzie's lack of faith in Poreda? This kinda frustrates me.

 

"Guillen intimated Poreda is barely ready for a major-league bullpen, much less a starting rotation.

 

"Our bullpen should be set pretty good," Guillen said. "I wish I had a little more confidence in Poreda, not because he's bad, just because he's a kid.

 

"The perfect guy in that [sixth inning Friday night] was Poreda, but I didn't feel comfortable putting that kid in that situation with the game on the line."

 

So why is Poreda in the bullpen if Guillen doesn't have complete confidence?

 

"We don't really have a choice right now," he said. "I will use him, but I'm not going to put him in a game that's on the line [like Friday's]. I don't have the guts to do it.

 

"Can he pitch in the big leagues? Yes, he can. Does he have to be better? Of course, he has to be better. We have to teach this kid to pitch in the big leagues, but meanwhile, we have to win."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2976928.story

It makes some sense; ideally you’d like to ease the kid into his role in the big leagues. However, he’s your number one pitching prospect, he’s experiencing success every time you put him out there , and is capable of pitching multiple innings as evidenced by his success in the minor leagues as a starter. What exactly makes Ozzie think Poreda doesn’t deserve a shot to be thrown into the fire? Is it the same kind of thinking that makes Ozzie think Dewayne Wise deserves a spot on this team? By no means do I find the Poreda usage as egregious as what’s going on with Wheezy, but I do find his mentality disturbing.

 

[SoxFan562004]

yeah, I'm on the side that says either use him in a prominent role in the majors or send him back down to get regular work

[The Ginger Kid]

yeah, I'm on the side that says either use him in a prominent role in the majors or send him back down to get regular work

And fill his spot with...

[SoxFan1]

And fill his spot with...

Jon Link, Jhonny Nunez, Fernando Hernandez, Carlos Torres, Derek Rodriguez, Adam Russell...

 

If you're not going to use him, send him to AAA and let him continue working as a SP.

[SoxAce]

Jon Link, Jhonny Nunez, Fernando Hernandez, Carlos Torres, Derek Rodriguez, Adam Russell...

 

If you're not going to use him, send him to AAA and let him continue working as a SP.

 

I was thinking of those guys as well.... until the sox traded Brandon Allen away to get Tony Pena, so I'm thinking the org. doesn't have any confidence in the others/aren't high on the relievers/or don't think the younger pitchers are quite ready yet.

[joejoedairy]

wouldnt ozzie have the same mentality about any of those relievers? not use them in pressure situations until they've proven they can do it. i dont mind that mentality but its hard for aaron to prove he can be used in those situations if he never gets to pitch in games that arent blow outs

[GreatScott82]

I think they are going to see how Colon does on that July 24th double header before they decide what to do with Poreda. July 21st vs Tampa will likely be make or break for Richard. If he falters once again, I say there is a real good chance Poreda gets inserted into the rotation.

[beck72]

Sounds more like Kenny Williams has more confidence in Poreda than Ozzie. I know the sox need another lefty in the pen. But that's what Richard's job will be soon enough.

 

Then send Poreda down to AAA to get stretched out. Bring in Carlos Torres for a shot. I'd rather try anyone than Bartolo.

[beck72]

I think they are going to see how Colon does on that July 24th double header before they decide what to do with Poreda. July 21st vs Tampa will likely be make or break for Richard. If he falters once again, I say there is a real good chance Poreda gets inserted into the rotation.

Poreda's not stretched out. IIRC, Ozzie, and Coop have both said publicly Poreda isn't an option for the 5th spot right now.

[chisoxfan09]

Is it me or have KW and Ozzie really disagreed a lot this year on player development from AA/AAA to the bigs and Ozzie has been over ruled on more than one occasion? He seems to have been against Slayer coming up and certainly Poreda. But KW won´t over rule him on his mancrush on Wise which is what I don´t get. Not a very clear cut decision making year IMO.

[southsider2k5]

Sometimes 1+1=2

 

Ozzie doesn't think he is ready, and Kenny has already tried to trade him. There is very little doubt in my mind Poreda will be moved for something at the deadline, or over the winter.

[Dick Allen]

Is it me or have KW and Ozzie really disagreed a lot this year on player development from AA/AAA to the bigs and Ozzie has been over ruled on more than one occasion? He seems to have been against Slayer coming up and certainly Poreda. But KW won´t over rule him on his mancrush on Wise which is what I don´t get. Not a very clear cut decision making year IMO.

KW likes to break guys in through the bullpen, and it makes a lot of sense. A lot of people just assume Poreda would be a better starter than Richard, and maybe in time he would, but right now there is zero evidence to suggest that. Remember, Ozzie gets to pick and choose the situations Poreda gets to pitch in now, making most of his match-ups favorable. If he was the starter, the opposite would be true. So far Poreda is throwing 92-94 most of the time with questionable secondary pitches. Basically, his fastball which has been his moneymaker, is, using KW's terms, a tick below Richard's, and since his command and secondary pitches, which even his biggest admirers would admit are major league questionable, you have a guy who would probably not have any better result than Richard. Just keep him where he is, let him get comfortable and let Ozzie get comfortable using him when the match-up isn't in his favor. There will be a game that goes 14 innings or the bullpen is used up where Poreda is going to have to step up, if he shines there, Ozzie will feel more comfortable using him more out of the bullpen.

[maggsmaggs]

Poreda's not stretched out. IIRC, Ozzie, and Coop have both said publicly Poreda isn't an option for the 5th spot right now.

And that is KW and Ozzie's fault. Why have him as your second lefty if you don't pitch him. I understand that you want him to be working with Coop, but at some point, meaningful innings have to be more important than working with the big league coach. One thing in our system is we have some legit minor league bullpen guys that could definitely give you some solid major league inning. Let Poreda continue to be a starter because I don't think he has the stuff to be a closer (based on what I have seen from him) but he does look like he could be a solid starter. And when will Torres get his due? Kid is dominating AAA and look real good in the AAA all-star game. He has legit stuff and loves to pound the zone, give me him over Richard, please.

Edited July 19, 2009 by maggsmaggs

[whitesoxfan101]

Sometimes 1+1=2

 

Ozzie doesn't think he is ready, and Kenny has already tried to trade him. There is very little doubt in my mind Poreda will be moved for something at the deadline, or over the winter.

 

Couldn't disagree more. Just because a talented kid you drafted a mere 25 months ago isn't ready in the opinion of those who matter to pitch in the major leagues doesn't mean he is going to get dealt.

[southsider2k5]

And that is KW and Ozzie's fault. Why have him as your second lefty if you don't pitch him. I understand that you want him to be working with Coop, but at some point, meaningful innings have to be more important than working with the big league coach. One thing in our system is we have some legit minor league bullpen guys that could definitely give you some solid major league inning. Let Poreda continue to be a starter because I don't think he has the stuff to be a closer (based on what I have seen from him) but he does look like he could be a solid starter. And when will Torres get his due? Kid is dominating AAA and look real good in the AAA all-star game. He has legit stuff and loves to pound the zone, give me him over Richard, please.

 

So they can put him in situations to succeed, put up impressive numbers, and pump up his value before they deal him?

[southsider2k5]

Couldn't disagree more. Just because a talented kid you drafted a mere 25 months ago isn't ready in the opinion of those who matter to pitch in the major leagues doesn't mean he is going to get dealt.

 

Ozzie said he isn't ready, and Kenny has already traded the kid. To me that tells me they think they can do better, especially when they are willing to give up 6 years of Poreda.

[ThunderBolt]

My main issue is that Ozzie continues to publically talk s*** about the kid. If I’m KW, I’m pissed at what Ozzie must be doing to the kid’s trade value, outside, of Ozzie’s constant stream of criticism there’s nothing that suggests Poreda isn’t a more than adequate big league pitcher.

[Disco72]

My main issue is that Ozzie continues to publically talk s*** about the kid. If I’m KW, I’m pissed at what Ozzie must be doing to the kid’s trade value, outside, of Ozzie’s constant stream of criticism there’s nothing that suggests Poreda isn’t a more than adequate big league pitcher.

 

How is he taking stuff about Poreda? Ozzie said that Poreda is a kid, and he doesn't want to put him in pressure situations. Given that the Sox have a very veteran bullpen, this makes a lot of sense.

 

I also agree with Southsider that it appears to me that the Sox don't think he's ready, and that they are trying to balance him helping the Sox this year with maximizing his trade value.

[Dick Allen]

Sometimes 1+1=2

 

Ozzie doesn't think he is ready, and Kenny has already tried to trade him. There is very little doubt in my mind Poreda will be moved for something at the deadline, or over the winter.

He dealt him in a pretty one-sided deal for one of the best pitchers in baseball. I'm sure he's talked trade and offered players who still play for the Sox in trades maybe even years ago. While I don't think Poreda's stock is as high with the White Sox as it is with some on this board, I don't think his departure is immenent. KW traded Garland for Erstand. When that fell through, Garland was a valued member of the White Sox for several years.

[Flash Tizzle]

I want everyone to store in their minds what's happening here with Poreda, so we NEVER again have to go through this bulls*** of having to argue that starters in the minors should be relievers on our team because "Buehrle and Garland did it," or some other stale argument. Our starters consistently pitch into the 6th/7th inning, and on the occasions one doesn't make it (The Clayton Richard Complex) DJ Carrasco comes in. It was clear to me from the onset that he wasn't going to find work as a starter, I have just been surprised he hasn't found work period.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[maggsmaggs]

Here's another thing, Poreda has about 75 innings pitched this year between AA and the majors. If he sticks in the pen the rest of the year, he likely won't hit 100 innings. How the heck can he be a potential starter next year for us next year when we aren't building his endurance?

[Flash Tizzle]

Ozzie said he isn't ready, and Kenny has already traded the kid. To me that tells me they think they can do better, especially when they are willing to give up 6 years of Poreda.

Ozzie's an idiot. It's not that Poreda isn't ready in his mind, it's just that he'd rather go with DJ "Every other f***ing breaking ball I throw is a hanger" Carrasco and his other relievers. It's his personal preference over his judgment of talent. As others have said, if it was up to Guillen he would never have promoted Beckham. Guillen isn't a scout -- it's not his duty to find out if someone isn't ready or not. Williams promoted him, HE thinks he's ready, so it's up to Guillen to find him work.

 

And Williams is an idiot too if his idea of maximizing Poreda's value is leaving him in the majors to pitch out of the bullpen once every week. If it was all about trade value he'd be in Charlotte dominating.

 

Just give the man the opportunity to start. Really, he's not even going to start ONE game? It's becoming ridiculous.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[caulfield12]

Ozzie's an idiot?

 

Because KW gives him Anderson and Wise and no other options but Jerry Owens and DeWayne Wise for CF this year?

 

We have to have the lowest OPS (combined) for CF of any team in all of MLB, right?

 

I suppose Ozzie's also an idiot for not starting Anderson everyday, too. Sure, Ozzie trusts the veteran players, it's because they have a proven track record or history of coming through for him. When Beckham was first up, he didn't play in 2-3 games over a two week span and everyone was acting like Guillen was benching him or abusing him or should be fired for not playing him every single day.

 

Well, when's the last time Fields played 3B and Beckham sat?

 

I'm sure Guillen is 180 degrees more confident in Clayton Richard getting key outs down the stretch out of the bullpen than he would be with Aaron Poreda, simply because he's spoon fed Aaron the most favorable match-ups and tried to build his confidence (but Aaron never has pitched key/clutch innings like Richard didn against TB in the playoffs)...just like he TRIED to do with Anderson, Fields, Nix and Getz (not to mention Lillibridge unless there was simply no other option for CF) this season.

 

Honestly, did we all expect to be competitive this season knowing that Anderson, Fields, Getz and Nix would all be getting significant playing time and that Carlos Quentin would miss roughly 2/3rd's of the first 90 games?

 

This has been one of Guillen's best managing jobs to date, but he's an idiot, I guess.

Edited July 19, 2009 by caulfield12

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Ozzie's an idiot?

 

Because KW gives him Anderson and Wise and no other options but Jerry Owens and DeWayne Wise for CF this year?

I think you've missed Flash's point. He was talking about Poreda, not the CF situation.

[Flash Tizzle]

Ozzie's an idiot?

 

Yes

 

Because KW gives him Anderson and Wise and no other options but Jerry Owens and DeWayne Wise for CF this year?

 

Yes

 

We have to have the lowest OPS (combined) for CF of any team in all of MLB, right?

 

Yes

 

I suppose Ozzie's also an idiot for not starting Anderson everyday, too. Sure, Ozzie trusts the veteran players, it's because they have a proven track record or history of coming through for him. When Beckham was first up, he didn't play in 2-3 games over a two week span and everyone was acting like Guillen was benching him or abusing him or should be fired for not playing him every single day.

Yes

Well, when's the last time Fields played 3B and Beckham sat?

 

yes

 

I'm sure Guillen is 180 degrees more confident in Clayton Richard getting key outs down the stretch out of the bullpen than he would be with Aaron Poreda, simply because he's spoon fed Aaron the most favorable match-ups and tried to build his confidence (but Aaron never has pitched key/clutch innings like Richard didn against TB in the playoffs)...just like he TRIED to do with Anderson, Fields, Nix and Getz (not to mention Lillibridge unless there was simply no other option for CF) this season.

 

Even when you attempt to address my post, you sidetrack it with nonsense. You have to learn to condense your rambling posts. It's like peering into the mind of a psychopath reading you, sometimes.

 

I really dislike this idea people always say of building confidence in a pitcher, like it's some video game where you need to accumulate points to use some special power. Here's an idea -- give him a few starts, let Richard pitch out of the bullpen, and see how different the two act in their roles. Is it really that difficult?

 

 

Oh, back to work now:

 

Honestly, did we all expect to be competitive this season knowing that Anderson, Fields, Getz and Nix would all be getting significant playing time and that Carlos Quentin would miss roughly 2/3rd's of the first 90 games?

 

Yes

 

This has been one of Guillen's best managing jobs to date, but he's an idiot, I guess.

 

Yes.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Flash Tizzle