The Ginger Kid Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 11:34 PM) Jon Link, Jhonny Nunez, Fernando Hernandez, Carlos Torres, Derek Rodriguez, Adam Russell... If you're not going to use him, send him to AAA and let him continue working as a SP. so send down a better pitcher for a worse pitcher so the better pitcher can continue to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 06:54 PM) so send down a better pitcher for a worse pitcher so the better pitcher can continue to develop. Yes, basically considering the better pitcher is never used in meaningful situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Why should Poreda start when he only has one pitch and his control hasn't been great the last few outings. Being at this level lets Poreda work with Cooper on his offspeed pitch and gives us a second lefty who can throw hard when we need it. Poreda's not ready to start at this level and with him in the pen we can pick the best situations for him to get work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 it's not like Ozzie said he'll never have confidence in him. Poreda's a work in progress, esp. out of the pen. Give it some time, maybe he'll earn his trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 06:30 AM) Is it me or have KW and Ozzie really disagreed a lot this year on player development from AA/AAA to the bigs and Ozzie has been over ruled on more than one occasion? He seems to have been against Slayer coming up and certainly Poreda. But KW won´t over rule him on his mancrush on Wise which is what I don´t get. Not a very clear cut decision making year IMO. I think you're spot-on here, dude. Compiling may of the little snippets and tidbits of info we get here and there, it becomes glaringly obvious that Ozzie didn't want Beckham OR Poreda up this season. Kenny is the boss and did what he felt was correct. Given Ozzie's demeanor, I doubt he appreciated KW trumping his perceptions of what the team needed, or didn't need, in regards to kids coming up. Unfortunately KW can't sit in the dugout and hold Ozzie's hand, forcing him to insert Poreda in high-leverage situations (although with Beckham there may have been a bit of pressure on Ozzie from above). Poreda could make this debate a moot point if he would work to develop secondary and tertiary pitches. I'll never understand it. I'm just a scrub who played little league but, with most pitches, if someone taught me how to grip and release a particular pitch I was able to get the movement/action on the ball I was supposed to. Obviously it wasn't ML caliber or I wouldn't be on this board, but I don't understand how a guy with arm strength and a feel for the baseball can't learn a new pitch relatively well in a relatively short amount of time. Even if he just picked up a couple of average breaking pitches that he can locate, the element of surprise works to his favor and he will get hitters out. I hate to simplify the job of a professional, it just baffles me every time a kid makes it to this level of ball with only 1 non-fastball pitch in their arsenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Well if you want to prove him wrong, 8 balls in 9 pitches with the bases loaded probably isn't the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 02:36 PM) Well if you want to prove him wrong, 8 balls in 9 pitches with the bases loaded probably isn't the way to do it. I've defended him through now, but that was embarrassing to watch. He wasn't even CLOSE to the zone; and the one strike was a ball swung at below the knees. I'm sure, if being truthful, he'd say something like he's a starting pitcher, not a reliever, but he has to succeed in any opportunity. And it's not as if he wouldn't encounter a bases loaded scenario as a starter. He was just bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) There is your answer. Ozzie is an idiot...but I am just a psychopath, and so is Ozzie, because he doesn't know what's best for the White Sox, apparently. But posters on a message board can see something our own scouts, manager, coaches and front office cannot. Edited July 19, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) There is your answer. Ozzie is an idiot...but I am just a psychopath, and so is Ozzie, because he doesn't know what's best for the White Sox, apparently. But posters on a message board can see something our own scouts, manager, coaches and front office cannot. Guillen's still an idiot, but I didn't call him a psychopath -- just you. I'm amazed you were able to stay on track without being sidetracked by the odd thoughts running through your mind that make it onto this message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 He set up Poreda to fail today. He hasn't pitched in a week, he's already wild. Let's throw him in there rusty with the bases loaded! It gives Ozzie a reason to not pitch him or have him sent to AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) Guillen's still an idiot, but I didn't call him a psychopath -- just you. I'm amazed you were able to stay on track without being sidetracked by the odd thoughts running through your mind that make it onto this message board. Apparently you've never heard of the associative theory...but a bunch of people talking about having sex with Megan Fox, Anne Hathaway or Shawn Johnson, those are perfectly normal things to talk about in PHT. I think name-calling belonged at wsi, not over here? Do you think you will ever find an instance of me calling a poster, a "psychopath"? Seriously, feel free to disagree with what I write, block me, ban me for not loving Brian Anderson or Aaron Poreda, but at least try to be civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 01:39 PM) He set up Poreda to fail today. He hasn't pitched in a week, he's already wild. Let's throw him in there rusty with the bases loaded! It gives Ozzie a reason to not pitch him or have him sent to AAA. If Ozzie doesn't have confidence in him right now, then what's he doing on the big league roster anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:39 PM) He set up Poreda to fail today. He hasn't pitched in a week, he's already wild. Let's throw him in there rusty with the bases loaded! It gives Ozzie a reason to not pitch him or have him sent to AAA. So Ozzie deliberately set up Jenks to fail yesterday as well, because he hadn't pitched for a week since the ASB? These are professional athletes paid to play a kid's game, why should they be treated like babies and their failures rationalized? He just didn't get the job done. If there's a BA/Aaron Poreda/Sean Tracey "conspiracy," why does Ozzie keep playing Gordon Beckham, a rookie, every single game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:43 PM) If Ozzie doesn't have confidence in him right now, then what's he doing on the big league roster anyway? Because in our X-Files alternative universe, Ozzie and/or Cooper don't want him up with the big league club, but KW is forcing their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 01:44 PM) If there's a BA/Aaron Poreda/Sean Tracey "conspiracy," why does Ozzie keep playing Gordon Beckham, a rookie, every single game? Given how he was admittedly reluctant to do so when Becks first came up (we had at least a couple threads on that), I'd say the answer for the first couple weeks was "Edict from above" and now it's "my God he's just that good". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 01:39 PM) He set up Poreda to fail today. He hasn't pitched in a week, he's already wild. Let's throw him in there rusty with the bases loaded! It gives Ozzie a reason to not pitch him or have him sent to AAA. I agree with this wholeheartedly. I was thinking the same thing. It had been a while since he pitched yet we constantly see Linebrink and Pena and Thornton. You can't tell me Poreda can't face a lefty or two more often than he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 02:45 PM) Given how he was admittedly reluctant to do so when Becks first came up (we had at least a couple threads on that), I'd say the answer for the first couple weeks was "Edict from above" and now it's "my God he's just that good". Ozzie's basic defense with Beckham (and he addressed this yesterday in the post-game) is that he wanted to "protect the kid" and he didn't want the media to get too ahead of themselves in setting expectations too high for Gordon. Fair enough. Obviously, they've seen MUCH more of Poreda, both in the minors, Spring Training and now with the big league club, and there are still serious reservations about using him in key situations. It's just as likely their options in AAA/AA are worse...which was yet another reason for the acquisition of Pena, even though he's obviously right-handed (and insurance for Linebrink or the possible trade of Dotel to another contender). Edited July 19, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 04:44 PM) So Ozzie deliberately set up Jenks to fail yesterday as well, because he hadn't pitched for a week since the ASB? There's a difference in a guy with 4 years of mlb closing experience and a guy who's been a reliever all of 11 innings in his entire pro career. Poreda still is working on his offspeed pitches and has control issues. He's not used to coming into games with runners on base. He was a walk (or two) just waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:57 PM) There's a difference in a guy with 4 years of mlb closing experience and a guy who's been a reliever all of 11 innings in his entire pro career. Poreda still is working on his offspeed pitches and has control issues. He's not used to coming into games with runners on base. He was a walk (or two) just waiting to happen. Obviously, that was NOT the time for Jenks. Thornton has pitched a lot recently. Who would you have used instead of Poreda in that situation, with those two batters coming up? Pena, Carrasco, Dotel or Linebrink? If we constantly have to use Dotel and Linebrink in games where we're trailing, then they're going to be toast by the end of the season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 02:05 PM) Obviously, that was NOT the time for Jenks. Thornton has pitched a lot recently. Who would you have used instead of Poreda in that situation, with those two batters coming up? Pena, Carrasco, Dotel or Linebrink? If we constantly have to use Dotel and Linebrink in games where we're trailing, then they're going to be toast by the end of the season... If you can't use Poreda in that spot, then he shouldn't be on the big league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Can we agree how silly though it is to take your least used, rookie, in a situation like that when, Ozzie has never put him on in a situation like that ever prior? This was Ozzie's F you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misplaced_Sox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) So Ozzie deliberately set up Jenks to fail yesterday as well, because he hadn't pitched for a week since the ASB? These are professional athletes paid to play a kid's game, why should they be treated like babies and their failures rationalized? He just didn't get the job done. If there's a BA/Aaron Poreda/Sean Tracey "conspiracy," why does Ozzie keep playing Gordon Beckham, a rookie, every single game? I dont want to gang up on you but that's flawed logic. One is a Veteran who has been in that predicament before and has experience to lean on, the other is a green rookie who has never pitched in a meaningful situation at the bigs coming from a starter to a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Today was like a day when everything went absolutely wrong for the Sox. Perfect chance for Poreda to prove he belongs in the bigs and he completely blows it. Bad day all around. Oh well shake it off and come back strong tomorrow, I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 did you ever think Ozzie,instead of the ridiculous claim that he was setting him up to fail, put him in a tough spot to prove himself. Let's say Poreda gets out of that jam then Ozzie has another viable lefty he can bring in tough spots. Poreda didn't get the job done, so be it. When you think about it, Ozzie put him a no-lose situation. If he fails,like he did, he's a rookie in tough spot.No biggie.If he comes through, he shows he merits more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Bad outings happen, but our pitchers have not been performing as we would think and hope they would for several games now. Buerhle rebounded and hopefull we have some more who do also and soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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