Ozzie and his Usage of Aaron Poreda.

[caulfield12]

did you ever think Ozzie,instead of the ridiculous claim that he was setting him up to fail, put him in a tough spot to prove himself. Let's say Poreda gets out of that jam then Ozzie has another viable lefty he can bring in tough spots. Poreda didn't get the job done, so be it. When you think about it, Ozzie put him a no-lose situation. If he fails,like he did, he's a rookie in tough spot.No biggie.If he comes through, he shows he merits more time.

 

 

Bingo, winner winner chicken dinner.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I am usually a defender of Ozzie, because I think he is doing things at times that people here don't see the long term view on.

 

However, this season, there are two things he has done which are just not good, short or long term. One is the DeWayne Wise show (and don't talk to me about 1 at-bat today). The other is, Poreda is just sitting there in the 'pen getting rusty, which makes zero sense. I don't care so much exactly what situations he has him go in, I just want to see him pitch some damn innings. He's being misused and it drives me nuts.

 

[caulfield12]

I am usually a defender of Ozzie, because I think he is doing things at times that people here don't see the long term view on.

 

However, this season, there are two things he has done which are just not good, short or long term. One is the DeWayne Wise show (and don't talk to me about 1 at-bat today). The other is, Poreda is just sitting there in the 'pen getting rusty, which makes zero sense. I don't care so much exactly what situations he has him go in, I just want to see him pitch some damn innings. He's being misused and it drives me nuts.

 

 

Have you ever thought maybe Ozzie's trying to demonstrate clearly that he needs some help at that position?

 

That he doesn't have the confidence to play Anderson everyday (because of his 630-650 OPS typically) and that he believes the odds of Wise getting hot and putting up an 800 OPS against righties with consistent playing time outweighs the defensive benefits of Anderson.

 

Surely you don't want to play Anderson, Kroeger or Lillibridge in CF every game?

[Balta1701]

Have you ever thought maybe Ozzie's trying to demonstrate clearly that he needs some help at that position?

Really? That's the best you've got? This is Ozzie's way of demonstrating to KW that he needs something different, putting Wise out there every day?

[NorthSideSox72]

Really? That's the best you've got? This is Ozzie's way of demonstrating to KW that he needs something different, putting Wise out there every day?

Yeah, that's weak.

 

I was thinking though, I really do have a theory now as to why Ozzie played Wise all three games this past series. And no, its not "cuz he's fasssssssssssssssst". I think they are probably going to be getting rid of Wise in the next few days, when Quentin returns, and they are trying to give DeWayne more playing time on the off chance some other organization wants to have him. Not that he's worth anything in trade probably, but at least Wise can go get a job.

 

Just my recent pet theory. I could very well be wrong.

 

[caulfield12]

Really? That's the best you've got? This is Ozzie's way of demonstrating to KW that he needs something different, putting Wise out there every day?

 

 

Clearly Ozzie believes that by giving Wise almost all the AB's against RHP, he can capture (or recapture) his .800 OPS against them in the second half and get on a hot streak finally, like at the end of 2008.

 

Defensively, there's obviously no comparison. That and the fact he also believes Wise's speed on the basepaths is more valuable to the line-up than BA's defense in the field.

 

So it's really, 640 OPS BA versus 800 (if he can do it) OPS Wise, and that's clearly a decision that could go either way, with arguments on both sides. Also clearly, BA didn't do anything to prove he should play everyday or get more playing time.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

So it's really, 640 OPS BA versus 800 (if he can do it) OPS Wise, and that's clearly a decision that could go either way, with arguments on both sides. Also clearly, BA didn't do anything to prove he should play everyday or get more playing time.

On BA not earning playing time, I'll totally agree.

 

I just can't see how anyone could make a case that Wise will put up an 800 OPS against anyone and Anderson won't.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, that's weak.

 

I was thinking though, I really do have a theory now as to why Ozzie played Wise all three games this past series. And no, its not "cuz he's fasssssssssssssssst". I think they are probably going to be getting rid of Wise in the next few days, when Quentin returns, and they are trying to give DeWayne more playing time on the off chance some other organization wants to have him. Not that he's worth anything in trade probably, but at least Wise can go get a job.

 

Just my recent pet theory. I could very well be wrong.

 

 

Lillibridge and Fields are still worth MUCH more than Wise.

 

10 Wises are worth less than 1 BA, one of my least favorite players.

 

Betemit is worth more than Wise, even.

[caulfield12]

On BA not earning playing time, I'll totally agree.

 

I just can't see how anyone could make a case that Wise will put up an 800 OPS against anyone and Anderson won't.

 

 

Simple...is BA putting up a 800 OPS (or close to it) against EITHER RHP or LHPing?

 

Ozzie knows that Wise is capable of doing that at least, as recently as last season...he witnessed it first-hand.

[Whitewashed in '05]

I am usually a defender of Ozzie, because I think he is doing things at times that people here don't see the long term view on.

 

However, this season, there are two things he has done which are just not good, short or long term. One is the DeWayne Wise show (and don't talk to me about 1 at-bat today). The other is, Poreda is just sitting there in the 'pen getting rusty, which makes zero sense. I don't care so much exactly what situations he has him go in, I just want to see him pitch some damn innings. He's being misused and it drives me nuts.

I wholeheartedly agree. If he isn't going to pitch Poreda here he needs to go back down and get some innings as a starter again.

 

By the way, the times that I've seen him besides his first game he hasn't hit 95mph. I didn't get a chance to see the gun today. I thought this kid hit mid to high 90's consistently...

[NorthSideSox72]

Clearly Ozzie believes that by giving Wise almost all the AB's against RHP, he can capture (or recapture) his .800 OPS against them in the second half and get on a hot streak finally, like at the end of 2008.

 

Defensively, there's obviously no comparison. That and the fact he also believes Wise's speed on the basepaths is more valuable to the line-up than BA's defense in the field.

 

So it's really, 640 OPS BA versus 800 (if he can do it) OPS Wise, and that's clearly a decision that could go either way, with arguments on both sides. Also clearly, BA didn't do anything to prove he should play everyday or get more playing time.

Wise is not an .800 OPS hitter against RHP. He's a career .631 OPS guy against righties, who happen to hit .800 vs RHP for one small part of one season.

 

BA is a career .655 OPS hitter vs RHP, .021 better than Wise.

 

So I sincerly hope that Ozzie isn't thinking that the few weeks of decent hitting that Wise gave us in 2008 is not an indication of his talent level. I tend to think he's smarter than that.

 

[caulfield12]

797 OPS in 115 at bats.

 

 

[OilCan]

I am usually a defender of Ozzie, because I think he is doing things at times that people here don't see the long term view on.

 

However, this season, there are two things he has done which are just not good, short or long term. One is the DeWayne Wise show (and don't talk to me about 1 at-bat today). The other is, Poreda is just sitting there in the 'pen getting rusty, which makes zero sense. I don't care so much exactly what situations he has him go in, I just want to see him pitch some damn innings. He's being misused and it drives me nuts.

 

NorthSide, I totally agree with you.

I wouldn't have given a second thought about how Ozzie would be handling his staff.

Now I am.

What good is drafting this kid in the first round if you are not going to use him, if you are not going to see if he is really ready or not? Yet, we keep bringing out players like Clayton Richard (who I think will still be something, just not yet) and Dewayne Wise for what? Seriously!

 

Prove it by this by doing the same thing to Richard. Prove that Aaron doesn't belong here yet if he does fail his first time around, then KW should do something. Don't just sit a kid just because you don't want to pressure him. Just what kind of BS is that?

Did they ever put kid gloves on players like Roger Clemens? Randy Johnson? Steve Carlton?

Let the kid pitch his way in or out of the rotation or pen. C'mon Oz.

[Balta1701]

Simple...is BA putting up a 800 OPS (or close to it) against EITHER RHP or LHPing?

 

Ozzie knows that Wise is capable of doing that at least, as recently as last season...he witnessed it first-hand.

I can put together a stretch of 130 AB's in 2008 where Anderson put up a .251 average and .777 OPS. I'll grant it's possible Ozzie was kicked out for some of those games. This is silly and all it does is demonstrate what you can get when you select a small number of at bats for a poor player.

[TheBigHurt]

This has been one of Guillen's best managing jobs to date, but he's an idiot, I guess.

 

Yes, and no one will ever convince me otherwise after that s***job "managing" he did in that game vs the Cubs we gave away. But... I have EYES. It didn't take me NEAR that long to realize Ozzie is an idiot.

[Kyyle23]

Yes, and no one will ever convince me otherwise after that s***job "managing" he did in that game vs the Cubs we gave away. But... I have EYES. It didn't take me NEAR that long to realize Ozzie is an idiot.

 

Do you seriously have to repeat this every time the subject of Ozzie comes up? We all know, thanks.

[caulfield12]

Yes, and no one will ever convince me otherwise after that s***job "managing" he did in that game vs the Cubs we gave away. But... I have EYES. It didn't take me NEAR that long to realize Ozzie is an idiot.

 

 

But couldn't we find 54 games for even the "great" managers in a season and pick apart their moves and say they contributed to their teams losing those games?

 

Why doesn't Ozzie get credit when we win, but only blame for losing that 5-1 lead to the Cubs, to the Pirates (Jenks isn't at fault either) or failing to take 3/5 against the Tigers, because Ozzie apparently is the home plate umpire, too.

[fathom]

Why doesn't Ozzie get credit when we win, but only blame for losing that 5-1 lead to the Cubs, to the Pirates (Jenks isn't at fault either) or failing to take 3/5 against the Tigers, because Ozzie apparently is the home plate umpire, too.

 

I wouldn't bring up that Tigers series, as Ozzie was awful during it.

[TheBigHurt]

Do you seriously have to repeat this every time the subject of Ozzie comes up? We all know, thanks.

 

Yeah, like I'm the only guy who complains. Did you happen to notice that the thread is on the SUBJECT of Ozzie's mismanaging? Thanks for the inept reply.

 

 

But couldn't we find 54 games for even the "great" managers in a season and pick apart their moves and say they contributed to their teams losing those games?

 

Why doesn't Ozzie get credit when we win, but only blame for losing that 5-1 lead to the Cubs, to the Pirates (Jenks isn't at fault either) or failing to take 3/5 against the Tigers, because Ozzie apparently is the home plate umpire, too.

 

You have have all the credit for a win you want (and I do give credibility when it's due), but it doesn't change the fact he does some really inexcusably stupid things, and as I keep saying, no excuse or pathetic argument an Ozzie defender will make ("He's not the only one who makes mistakes," your excuse, etc.) changes that. It really amazes me to no end that with all the supposed intelligent fans on this board, I have yet to see someone make a point that disproves what I'm saying.

 

But I'm not getting into this again. Not worth it.

Edited July 20, 2009 by TheBigHurt

[caulfield12]

Yeah, like I'm the only guy who complains. Did you happen to notice that the thread is on the SUBJECT of Ozzie's mismanaging? Thanks for the inept reply.

 

 

 

 

You have have all the credit for a win you want (and I do give credibility when it's due), but it doesn't change the fact he does some really inexcusably stupid things, and as I keep saying, no excuse or pathetic argument an Ozzie defender will make ("He's not the only one who makes mistakes," your excuse, etc.) changes that. It really amazes me to no end that with all the supposed intelligent fans on this board, I have yet to see someone make a point that disproves what I'm saying.

 

But I'm not getting into this again. Not worth it.

 

 

So which managers (not named Ozzie Guillen) do you think would have led us to a championship in 2005?

 

Cito Gaston? Jerry Manuel? Wally Backman?

 

I'm sure the usual answers (Gardenhire, Torre, Tom Kelly, LaRussa, Maddon, Scioscia, Francona, Leyland, Ken Macha, Piniella, etc.)

 

Right?

 

 

[WCSox]

Ozzie is many things, but "stupid" isn't one of them. Kenny is easily one of the Top 10 GMs in the game, so he's even further from "stupid."

 

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the craziness that we're seeing with Wise, Anderson, Beckham, and Poreda is what happens when the manager and GM aren't on the same page. I wouldn't say that Ozzie's job is in jeopardy at this point, but it's difficult to see things working out between these two over the long term.

 

[greg775]

I love Ozzie.

He's been in baseball so long, he's seen it all.

He could kick anybody's ass on this board in a 1-1 discussion of strategy in baseball. Uh, he could.

He screws up a lot. All managers do.

[nitetrain8601]

Can we agree how silly though it is to take your least used, rookie, in a situation like that when, Ozzie has never put him on in a situation like that ever prior?

 

This was Ozzie's F you

 

How is he supposed to gain experience in a situation like that if you want to keep him out of a situation like that without giving him experience in that situation? You and a couple of others just made a huge Catch 22 with him. Ozzie needs to use him, Ozzie set him up to fail by using him today. It's one thing of Poreda was wild, but has showed amazing stuff. He has yet to show amazing stuff. Right now, he's much worse than MacDougal because he has jack s*** going for him. He should be traded while his value is high. This place reminds me of Soxtalk a couple of years ago when they would do whatever it took to protect Jeff Bajanaru.

[caulfield12]

How is he supposed to gain experience in a situation like that if you want to keep him out of a situation like that without giving him experience in that situation? You and a couple of others just made a huge Catch 22 with him. Ozzie needs to use him, Ozzie set him up to fail by using him today. It's one thing of Poreda was wild, but has showed amazing stuff. He has yet to show amazing stuff. Right now, he's much worse than MacDougal because he has jack s*** going for him. He should be traded while his value is high. This place reminds me of Soxtalk a couple of years ago when they would do whatever it took to protect Jeff Bajanaru.

 

 

You mean Bajenaru, Joe Valentine, Rob Purvis, Brian West, Kevin Beirne and Aaron Myette weren't ready for greatness?

[SoxFan1]

He could kick anybody's ass on this board in a 1-1 discussion of strategy in baseball. Uh, he could.

Excuse me? fathom is far smarter than Ozzie Guillen. He's never made a bad managerial decision in his life.