Films Thread

[qwerty]

I'll take a stab at this, but you have to take yourself back to 1941 and the technical limitations of cinema at the time to fully appreciate how innovative Kane was.

 

Subject matter: The film is a thinly-veiled critique of the life and legacy of William Randolph Hearst, who was a very powerful newspaper magnate of the day, and who prohibited any mention of the film in his publications upon its release. That's a pretty daring target to satirize/criticize, and it is roman à clef at its best as far as American cinema goes.

 

Narrative device: The use of flashbacks to tell Charles Foster Kane's story was inspired, because it allows us to see each of the contributing storytellers (Leland, Bernstein, Raymond, Susan, etc.) both as they were when they interacted with Kane and as they are in later life after his death. The duality of Kane (social crusader and idealistic newspaper publisher versus ruthless power monger and megalomaniac) is fully explored and is reinforced by the conflicted opinions that each of the main characters has about the man. The use of "Rosebud" as the vehicle by allowing Reporter Jerry Thompson to track down Kane's acquaintances, ostensibly to solve the mystery of the man's dying words is easy to giggle at as a film world inside joke, but it was genius. It did not matter at all the Thompson never figured out what Rosebud was, didn't matter that it was boy Kane's sled that got incinerated in the last scene (other than to reassert the lost childhood aspect of Kane's tragic character, with the wealthiest man in America keeping this seemingly worthless possession all those years). What mattered was that the need to solve a mystery propelled the story by giving the reporter a reason to track everybody down.

 

Tragic Story: The idealist who loses everything he loves as a result of his own blind ambition is not a new story at the time teh film was released, but it is a timeless tale of a tragic hero that is told to perfection here.

 

Cinematography: Citizen Kane marks the first time deep focus is used to any extent in cinema, and that is the accomplishment of cinematographer extraordinaire Greg Toland. Toland also used in-camera matte shots and also an optical printer to create the appearance of deep focus in those scenes where he couldn't actually achieve it with lighting and lenses. Layering film was done by others at the time to achieve specific special effects, while here the filmakers are doing it just to achieve the visual they want in an average scene. Additional touches like extensive use of low-angle up shots and contrasting light and shadow scene compositions were used to better effect than any other film of the day.

 

The use of miniature models (Xanadu, the opera house rafters, etc.) were seemless to the rest of the film.

 

Music: The use of the same theme — "There was a Man" — throughout the film but in so many different modalities was brilliant. Played vaudeville-style by a live band when he was on the campaign trail, contrasted with the slow, non-diagenic bombast at the beginning and end of the film, and performed differently according to the mood of the scene throughout was not necessary to tell the story — and it's never even noticed by 98% of the viewers. But it's one of the extremes the filmmakers went to to make a perfect film.

 

That's it off the top of my head. Great film. Period.

 

Could you please stop trying to pretend like you have any knowledge about citizen kane and what makes it so great? Kthxbye.

 

Truly though, i have seen citizen kane three times, and it only gets better each time.

[southsider2k5]

Could you please stop trying to pretend like you have any knowledge about citizen kane and what makes it so great? Kthxbye.

 

Truly though, i have seen citizen kane three times, and it only gets better each time.

 

To be fair, he was alive then...

[FlaSoxxJim]

To be fair, he was alive then...

Shut up, that's why!

 

 

One thing I forgot. The use of the RKO pictures newsreel team to do the opening "News on the March" sequence — a perfect take on the movie house newsreels of the time.

 

[bmags]

In the scene where Kane finally gets all the journalists from the rival paper and has a banquet (that is the "there is a man" tap off I believe) is it low ceilings or mirrors they use to make him appear larger than life? That was a great shot.

[bigklita]

[FlaSoxxJim]

In the scene where Kane finally gets all the journalists from the rival paper and has a banquet (that is the "there is a man" tap off I believe) is it low ceilings or mirrors they use to make him appear larger than life? That was a great shot.

 

I think Toland used the optical printer to achieve the oversized room, as well as the low-angle up-shot camera to include the ceilings in the shots.

 

Including the ceilings in many of the shots was pretty groundbreaking. Most films then were shot on movie lot soundstage sets and the sets never bothered to include ceilings. In some cases on Kane, true ceiling portions were built, and in others muslin cloth was used to give the appearance of a ceiling while also hiding the microphone booms and gaffing that were located on the other side of the muslin.

[bmags]

I think Toland used the optical printer to achieve the oversized room, as well as the low-angle up-shot camera to include the ceilings in the shots.

 

Including the ceilings in many of the shots was pretty groundbreaking. Most films then were shot on movie lot soundstage sets and the sets never bothered to include ceilings. In some cases on Kane, true ceiling portions were built, and in others muslin cloth was used to give the appearance of a ceiling while also hiding the microphone booms and gaffing that were located on the other side of the muslin.

 

That's what it was.

[FlaSoxxJim]

 

I assume Toby Jones character in the trailer is supposed to be Thomas Henry Huxley. aka "Darwin's Bulldog."

 

"Creation" certainly is an ironic title for a film about the father of modern evolutionary biology.

 

[bigklita]

I assume Toby Jones character in the trailer is supposed to be Thomas Henry Huxley. aka "Darwin's Bulldog."

 

"Creation" certainly is an ironic title for a film about the father of modern evolutionary biology.

 

Jones is playing Huxley and the other actor that you see with them is playing Thomas Hooker. It just got a distributing deal in the US and should be coming out in December. It just came out this weekend in the UK. They were saying that they didn't know if it would come out in the US because it would be too "controversial." The funny thing is that the distributing company that picked it up is most famous for distributing "The Passion of the Christ." Also, it is based on the book Annie's Box written by Darwin's great-great grandson.

Edited September 29, 2009 by NIUSox

[longshot7]

I think Toland used the optical printer to achieve the oversized room, as well as the low-angle up-shot camera to include the ceilings in the shots.

 

Including the ceilings in many of the shots was pretty groundbreaking. Most films then were shot on movie lot soundstage sets and the sets never bothered to include ceilings. In some cases on Kane, true ceiling portions were built, and in others muslin cloth was used to give the appearance of a ceiling while also hiding the microphone booms and gaffing that were located on the other side of the muslin.

 

Yup, this is true.

 

Doesn't get my vote for best film of all time, but it's still a masterpiece.

[longshot7]

I'll take a stab at this, but you have to take yourself back to 1941 and the technical limitations of cinema at the time to fully appreciate how innovative Kane was.

 

Subject matter: The film is a thinly-veiled critique of the life and legacy of William Randolph Hearst, who was a very powerful newspaper magnate of the day, and who prohibited any mention of the film in his publications upon its release. That's a pretty daring target to satirize/criticize, and it is roman à clef at its best as far as American cinema goes.

 

Narrative device: The use of flashbacks to tell Charles Foster Kane's story was inspired, because it allows us to see each of the contributing storytellers (Leland, Bernstein, Raymond, Susan, etc.) both as they were when they interacted with Kane and as they are in later life after his death. The duality of Kane (social crusader and idealistic newspaper publisher versus ruthless power monger and megalomaniac) is fully explored and is reinforced by the conflicted opinions that each of the main characters has about the man. The use of "Rosebud" as the vehicle by allowing Reporter Jerry Thompson to track down Kane's acquaintances, ostensibly to solve the mystery of the man's dying words is easy to giggle at as a film world inside joke, but it was genius. It did not matter at all the Thompson never figured out what Rosebud was, didn't matter that it was boy Kane's sled that got incinerated in the last scene (other than to reassert the lost childhood aspect of Kane's tragic character, with the wealthiest man in America keeping this seemingly worthless possession all those years). What mattered was that the need to solve a mystery propelled the story by giving the reporter a reason to track everybody down.

 

Tragic Story: The idealist who loses everything he loves as a result of his own blind ambition is not a new story at the time teh film was released, but it is a timeless tale of a tragic hero that is told to perfection here.

 

Cinematography: Citizen Kane marks the first time deep focus is used to any extent in cinema, and that is the accomplishment of cinematographer extraordinaire Greg Toland. Toland also used in-camera matte shots and also an optical printer to create the appearance of deep focus in those scenes where he couldn't actually achieve it with lighting and lenses. Layering film was done by others at the time to achieve specific special effects, while here the filmakers are doing it just to achieve the visual they want in an average scene. Additional touches like extensive use of low-angle up shots and contrasting light and shadow scene compositions were used to better effect than any other film of the day.

 

The use of miniature models (Xanadu, the opera house rafters, etc.) were seemless to the rest of the film.

 

Music: The use of the same theme — "There was a Man" — throughout the film but in so many different modalities was brilliant. Played vaudeville-style by a live band when he was on the campaign trail, contrasted with the slow, non-diagenic bombast at the beginning and end of the film, and performed differently according to the mood of the scene throughout was not necessary to tell the story — and it's never even noticed by 98% of the viewers. But it's one of the extremes the filmmakers went to to make a perfect film.

 

That's it off the top of my head. Great film. Period.

 

Great summary. The fractured narrative hinted at all the experientation that was to come in the noir years, where one way to show the fractured psyche of a lead character was to fracture the narrative- but Kane (Joseph Mankiewica was the screenwriter) did it first. Also done to great effect in The Bad & The Beautiful about Kirk Douglas' character.

[bmags]

Didn't Welles try and claim most of the credit from Mankiewicz?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Didn't Welles try and claim most of the credit from Mankiewicz?

 

Yes, and a lot of that played out even before the film came out. They were billed as co-writes on the original release with Herman getting top billing. I've heard the Welles offered Mankiewicz an additional sum of money in return for letting Welles take all the writing credits. I don't know if Herman ever took the money but I know he was super pissed at Welles trying to take credit for the whole thing.

 

I also know that Welles friend and Mercury Theatre collaborator John "They EARNNN it!" Houseman was instrumental in getting him and Mankiewicz together on Kane.

[bmags]

We also never even mentioned my favorite scene of the movie, the dinner scene where you gradually see Hearst and his first wife speak less and less and move farther and farther apart.

[FlaSoxxJim]

We also never even mentioned my favorite scene of the movie, the dinner scene where you gradually see Hearst and his first wife speak less and less and move farther and farther apart.

 

Phenomenal scene (Kane though, not Hearst of course) — a great early American cinema use of compressed time, shooting the same characters in the same space across a time span of many years.

 

One of my personal favorite scenes similarly conveys time and increasing coldness toward Kane — the one where Susan is doing puzzles on the marble floor in the cavernous Xanadu. All the different puzzles she is seen doing are a great symbol of the amount of time that has passed with her locked up in Kane's castle, longing for New York and human companionship.

[Milkman delivers]

Jones is playing Huxley and the other actor that you see with them is playing Thomas Hooker. It just got a distributing deal in the US and should be coming out in December. It just came out this weekend in the UK. They were saying that they didn't know if it would come out in the US because it would be too "controversial." The funny thing is that the distributing company that picked it up is most famous for distributing "The Passion of the Christ." Also, it is based on the book Annie's Box written by Darwin's great-great grandson.

 

It's disappointing that this would even be an issue in America. It's something I'd expect out of a third world country, or maybe one filled with extremists. I hate Americans more each and every day, I swear.

[The Critic]

I took my daughter to see Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs last weekend.

We both laughed a lot. I'd recommend it.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I watched Wanted last night.

 

 

 

 

Good lord that movie sucked. I want that time back in my life

 

yeah, but Chicago looked fantastic in a few scenes.....and Jolie has never looked hotter.

[Kyyle23]

yeah, but Chicago looked fantastic in a few scenes.....and Jolie has never looked hotter.

 

For me it is hard to top how hot she was in the movie Hackers.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I took my daughter to see Cloudy With A Chance of Meatballs last weekend.

We both laughed a lot. I'd recommend it.

 

Saw it on Sunday with the family as well. Fun film.

 

I was happy that my son and daughter had both read the book and both were sort of irked at how much was left out or altered in the film, because neither of them are reading as much as they should and it was a rare moment (for them) when they got defensive about a book they had read and enjoyed versus the film adaptation.

[Brian]

This would be better if the brought back Englund.

 

[Milkman delivers]

I just watched Hoffa. I'd highly recommend it.

[FlaSoxxJim]

This would be better if the brought back Englund.

 

9 out of every 10 Hollywood horror films anymore are cr@ppy retreads of somebody else's past successes. How long are these filmmakers going to get away with such an absolute lack of creativity?

[Milkman delivers]

I think Jackie Earle Haley is a great choice for Freddy, but I didn't realize he is just over 5'5''.

[Flash Tizzle]

9 out of every 10 Hollywood horror films anymore are cr@ppy retreads of somebody else's past successes. How long are these filmmakers going to get away with such an absolute lack of creativity?

I've been resigned to this reality for awhile. Honestly, it used to irritate the hell out of me. I remember thinking, "How can anyone touch Dawn of the Dead?" and ended up pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately, this is an aberration; I'd tend go to agree with your 9/10 Hollywood remakes are atrocious. All of these franchises (Halloween, FT13th, NOES) have built in fanbases that extend back 20+ years. There's much less risk involved with recreating a horror classic than attempting to cash in with an original idea. As long as people continue giving these companies money, they'll continue churning out the crap.

 

If you want quality films, it seems that what's happening more and more is they'll be showcased at some horror/independent move festival and receive a generous amount of buzz, only to rot away for several years until their DVD release. It's frustrating for people like myself that read horror forums and here of this amazing film, but no one knows when the hell it's going to be available for rental.

 

Here's a movie that should reinvigorate your faith in the business -- it's called "Trick R Treat." This is one of those films that has been known about for quite awhile. It's being released on DVD October 6th, and reviews for it have been overwhelmingly favorable. People whose opinions I trust have been labeling it a movie you'll probably find yourself watching at Halloween for years to come. That, for me, is the perfect description of a horror movie. I'm actually excited to watch it.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Flash Tizzle