Brandon Allen

[ThunderBolt]

Can we just stop talking about him and pretend he was never in our organization?

 

Never underestimate the power of denial.

Wait, who are we talking about again.

[Flash Tizzle]

Can we just stop talking about him and pretend he was never in our organization?

 

Never underestimate the power of denial.

Nope. Sox had no reason to trade him, and as such, should be haunted by his success.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Nope. Sox had no reason to trade him, and as such, should be haunted by his success.

 

 

Just wait until Linebrink/Dotel/Jenks go on the DL...then we will see the logic behind KW's thinking, or when Dotel is traded...and the prospect/s we get to replace Allen.

[Balta1701]

Just wait until Linebrink/Dotel/Jenks go on the DL...then we will see the logic behind KW's thinking, or when Dotel is traded...and the prospect/s we get to replace Allen.

Even then, I need to see a lot more out of Pena than what I've seen so far.

[danman31]

We can't regret the deal from AAA stats. Let him hit in the Majors, then the naysayers can brag about how right they were.

[southsider2k5]

Just wait until Linebrink/Dotel/Jenks go on the DL...then we will see the logic behind KW's thinking, or when Dotel is traded...and the prospect/s we get to replace Allen.

 

We have watched the entire pen start to circle the drain. Even Thornton had an era over 5.00 in June. I don't have a problem with them trying to reinforce that.

[santo=dorf]

Brandon Allen has six hits over his last two games, but isn't expected to be called up until September.

 

The team doesn't seem that married to Josh Whitesell at first, but wants to give him more time at the position to reward him for his years of service at Triple-A. You would think a club would be more concerned about winning. Allen has a 1.210 OPS since being traded to the team July 8. Consider him the favorite to open 2010 as the starting first baseman.

 

-roto

[BlackBetsy]

I just fear this is our Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell trade. Kenny Williams hasn't had a big trade bite him in the ass yet (Kip Wells and Fogg for Todd Ritchie was bad, but neither were perennial All Star players).

[witesoxfan]

I just fear this is our Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell trade. Kenny Williams hasn't had a big trade bite him in the ass yet (Kip Wells and Fogg for Todd Ritchie was bad, but neither were perennial All Star players).

 

Anderson pitched half a year in Boston, and he was 37. And I imagine you must have some pretty lofty expectations of Brandon Allen if you are willing to compare him at all to Jeff Bagwell, who had a hall of fame career.

[oldsox]

I just fear this is our Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell trade. Kenny Williams hasn't had a big trade bite him in the ass yet (Kip Wells and Fogg for Todd Ritchie was bad, but neither were perennial All Star players).

The entire Swisher escapade should make Kenny blush. Also, the Keith Foulke trade to Oakland for whatshisname, made worse when Kenny gave him $6MM. Foulke still had 2-3 good years left.

[JorgeFabregas]

Allen has been called up to the D'backs.

He's also starting tonight. GIDP in his first AB.

[santo=dorf]

Just wait until Linebrink/Dotel/Jenks go on the DL...then we will see the logic behind KW's thinking, or when Dotel is traded...and the prospect/s we get to replace Allen.

None of this has happened.

 

However since this post Pena has a 2.25 ERA and 1.33 WHIP with 11K's in 12IP.

 

I'd still like to believe we could've received more for Allen, and now Thome and Dye have taken big dips since the all-star break there is the question of bringing either back next season.

[Dizzy Sox]

I just fear this is our Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell trade. Kenny Williams hasn't had a big trade bite him in the ass yet (Kip Wells and Fogg for Todd Ritchie was bad, but neither were perennial All Star players).

 

Allen is going to be good, but he is no Jeff Bagwell. I do agree though that this might be the one trade of a prospect that comes back to really bite us in the butt. Pena looks very ordinary...not sure what KW sees in him.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Allen is going to be good, but he is no Jeff Bagwell. I do agree though that this might be the one trade of a prospect that comes back to really bite us in the butt. Pena looks very ordinary...not sure what KW sees in him.

 

Comparing Allen to Bagwell is laughable. Also, remember the reaction when KW traded away Chris Young? It was much worse, and look how that ended up.

[caulfield12]

The entire Swisher escapade should make Kenny blush. Also, the Keith Foulke trade to Oakland for whatshisname, made worse when Kenny gave him $6MM. Foulke still had 2-3 good years left.

 

 

UMMM....N. Cotts didn't help us out in 2005 very much, did he?

[Dick Allen]

The entire Swisher escapade should make Kenny blush. Also, the Keith Foulke trade to Oakland for whatshisname, made worse when Kenny gave him $6MM. Foulke still had 2-3 good years left.

While I criticize KW from time to time (mostly because there are so many people who think he can do no wrong) picking out 2 trades in 9 years is a bit ridiculous. Everyone screws up. I still think in the long run the Swisher trade isn't as bad as you think. He's not a CF and didn't have a place to play on the White Sox. They got out of his contract. We'll see how he does the next several years. Rios probably isn't a White Sox if Swisher is around, and he's a better player, and they did use the money they saved this year to sign Viciedo. The Foulke trade was bad at the time, the Sox may have won the WS in 2003 or 2004 if they kept him, but Cotts did help them win in 2005 even if Koch was done when they acquired him. May vs. did, I'll take the did anytime.

 

So many bad trades wind up decently. When Hawk was GM, he was criticized for trading Bobby Bonilla for Jose DeLeon. DeLeon was a decent pitcher who eventually turned into Lance Johnson. A guy that helped the Sox win a lot of games. Hawk supposedly ruined the White Sox, a team not good enough to win previously when they had Britt Burns (who never pitched again) and Tom Seaver (who didn't wan't to play in the midwest anymore) and Bob James (who fell apart) leading their pitching staff in 1985. He also acquired Ivan Calderon for almost nothing, and Calderon help the Sox have a great season in 1990, before he was turned into Tim Raines. He was also criticized for turning over the scouting dept., the department that drafted Kurt Brown over Barry Bonds.

 

I'm using Hawk as an example of grading the Swisher trade. Its waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy to early to grade it. Granted Betemit and Marquez aren't long for getting paid to play baseball, but what if Viciedo becomes a star? What if Nunez becomes dominant? Perhaps those are longshots, but what if Rios outplays Swisher for years? That's almost a guarantee.

Edited August 23, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

While I criticize KW from time to time (mostly because there are so many people who think he can do no wrong) picking out 2 trades in 9 years is a bit ridiculous. Everyone screws up. I still think in the long run the Swisher trade isn't as bad as you think. He's not a CF and didn't have a place to play on the White Sox. They got out of his contract. We'll see how he does the next several years. Rios probably isn't a White Sox if Swisher is around, and he's a better player, and they did use the money they saved this year to sign Viciedo. The Foulke trade was bad at the time, the Sox may have won the WS in 2003 or 2004 if they kept him, but Cotts did help them win in 2005 even if Koch was done when they acquired him. May vs. did, I'll take the did anytime.

 

So many bad trades wind up decently. When Hawk was GM, he was criticized for trading Bobby Bonilla for Jose DeLeon. DeLeon was a decent pitcher who eventually turned into Lance Johnson. A guy that helped the Sox win a lot of games. Hawk supposedly ruined the White Sox, a team not good enough to win previously when they had Britt Burns (who never pitched again) and Tom Seaver (who didn't wan't to play in the midwest anymore) and Bob James (who fell apart) leading their pitching staff in 1985. He also acquired Ivan Calderon for almost nothing, and Calderon help the Sox have a great season in 1990, before he was turned into Tim Raines. He was also criticized for turning over the scouting dept., the department that drafted Kurt Brown over Barry Bonds.

 

I'm using Hawk as an example of grading the Swisher trade. Its waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy to early to grade it. Granted Betemit and Marquez aren't long for getting paid to play baseball, but what if Viciedo becomes a star? What if Nunez becomes dominant? Perhaps those are longshots, but what if Rios outplays Swisher for years? That's almost a guarantee.

Great post all around.

 

Besides, I guarantee that there will be better baseball players than Nick Swisher available as free agents this offseason for a lot less than what we'd have paid Swisher to be a butcher in CF.

 

I've said before that the first deal for Swisher was the mistake, not the second. The Yankees aren't b****ing about his contract right now because they're the Yankees, but the majority of other teams in baseball aren't going to like that contract in this baseball economy. He's an average player that will end up getting paid like an above-average-to-star player and just unloading him gets Kenny positive marks from me. I like Nunez too and he might become an above-average reliever.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Comparing Allen to Bagwell is laughable. Also, remember the reaction when KW traded away Chris Young? It was much worse, and look how that ended up.

Much worse?

 

Brandon Allen is a better hitter than Chris Young will ever be, and the Javy deal was a fair trade talent-for-talent at the time. Brandon Allen for Tony Pena seems like a major overpayment to me. I guess we'll have to see, but considering Allen's ceiling FAAAAAAR outweighs that of Pena, it's a major risk. I hate the deal and I hated it the second it was made.

[DaTank]

Much worse?

 

Brandon Allen is a better hitter than Chris Young will ever be, and the Javy deal was a fair trade talent-for-talent at the time. Brandon Allen for Tony Pena seems like a major overpayment to me. I guess we'll have to see, but considering Allen's ceiling FAAAAAAR outweighs that of Pena, it's a major risk. I hate the deal and I hated it the second it was made.

 

Not to mention he could have been a starting 1B/corner OF/DH for us next year. Young, athletic, position player >>>>>>> crappy 'pen arm.

[ThunderBolt]

Trading Allen was a mistake, no doubt about it. Hopefully, Marrero and Phegley can help ease the pain. We'll survive.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Not to mention he could have been a starting 1B/corner OF/DH for us next year. Young, athletic, position player >>>>>>> crappy 'pen arm.

Even if Pena helps solidify the back of our bullpen for the next 3-4 years, he's still going to be expensive through arb, and he still isn't worth the type of player Brandon Allen could become. Yes, the keyword is "could" and there's no guarantee Allen will do anything, but I'd much rather have given up prospects more similar to Pena. Would the DBacks have really laughed at us for offering 2 of Jones/Mabee/Omogrosso/Harrell/Nunez/Santeliz/Link/DRod/Russell when we had him? Did Pena REALLY have that kind of value?

 

I just don't like the idea of trading a position prospect with star potential for a player who isn't already a star position player or a #3 or better SP. The reason is, solid setup men and middle relievers are still mostly volatile, and they're always the quickest to be demoted and/or released, and the really good ones are almost always overpaid, but despite being overpaid, they're *never* paid as much as above-average position players are on the free agent market, and also, they're *never* worth an above-average position player straight-up through trade unless the salary situation is lopsided.

 

Maybe Kenny sees Pena as our future closer after Jenks. I would hope not, but I think that would better justify the trade. And BTW I still hope Brandon Allen becomes a star and that Pena becomes a great player for us who helps us win another title, so I'm not rooting for anyone involved to fail.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Brandon Allen's first career Major League hit in his first Major League game

 

Through 8 AB he has 2 hits, both singles, 1 RBI, a walk and 3 K's.

 

.250/.333/.250 to start the Brandon Allen watch.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Much worse?

 

Brandon Allen is a better hitter than Chris Young will ever be, and the Javy deal was a fair trade talent-for-talent at the time. Brandon Allen for Tony Pena seems like a major overpayment to me. I guess we'll have to see, but considering Allen's ceiling FAAAAAAR outweighs that of Pena, it's a major risk. I hate the deal and I hated it the second it was made.

 

At the time of the trade it was much worse. The reaction here from many people was as if someone stole their child.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Not to mention he could have been a starting 1B/corner OF/DH for us next year. Young, athletic, position player >>>>>>> crappy 'pen arm.

 

Based on what? The fact he's never played there before?

 

And it's a good thing we didn't get a "crappy pen arm" in relief then.

[Marky Mark]

Even if Pena turns out to be a bust even in 2010, the trade thought process was smart on Kenny's part. 1B are extremely replaceable, but he was thinking that it'd be nice to get someone young in the pen who has the potential to be a closer some day, and can help now. Obviously it hasn't gone that well, but I can not criticize the trade thought process.