Kyyle23 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) Reading through the Halladay thread, a lot of opinions are thrown around of who has been "arguably the best pitcher" of the past few years. Kalapse commented that he would love to see the argument that Halladay has been the best, and after thinking about that, I agree. So present your argument of why any pitcher has been the best pitcher of the past 5 years. Since this year has not concluded, lets use 2003-2008 for the statistics of your argument. I am sure that there are plenty of statistic-savvy posters on this site who will have plenty of different perspectives and opinions of what they feel is the best pitcher of the past 5 years. So who is it going to be? Halladay? Santana? K-Rod? Beckett? CC Sabathia? Haren? Present your case. And please, lets keep it civil. Edited July 20, 2009 by KyYlE23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 There's a strong case to be made for Dan Haren too. Tough question though. Let me do some research Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Santana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 '03-'08 is a six year span, not five. Anyway . . . Highest ERA+ between '03 and '08 w/ at least 1000 IP over that span: 1.) 156 - Johan Santana 2.) 143 - Brandon Webb 3.) 140 - Roy Halladay 4.) 136 - Roy Oswalt 5.) 132 - Carlos Zambrano 6.) 128 - CC Sabathia 7.) 125 - Jake Peavy 7.) 125 - Ben Sheets 9.) 124 - Tim Hudson 0.) 119 - Mark Buehrle Josh Beckett is 12th This is more or less what I was talking about: Highest ERA+ from '07 to date (min: 450 IP): 1.) 152 - Dan Haren 2.) 150 - Tim Lincecum 3.) 146 - Johan Santana 4.) 144 - CC Sabathia 4.) 144 - Brandon Webb 6.) 138 - Roy Halladay 7.) 135 - Jake Peavy 8.) 132 - Josh Beckett 9.) 128 - Matt Cain 9.) 128 - Adam Wainwright 11.) 127 - Mark Buehrle 12.) 126 - Felix Hernandez 12.) 126 - Cole Hamels 12.) 126 - John Lackey 12.) 126 - Cliff Lee 16.) 125 - Roy Oswalt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Since 2005, Johan Santana has an ERA of 2.88, 1041 strikeouts, an ERA+ of 151, has thrown 1042 innings, gives up 7.5 hits per 9, has a 1.064 WHIP. He leads every single one of those categories out of the starting pitchers you named. He leads more categories too I'm just not going to write them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Tim Lincecum and Dan Haren are the 2 best pitchers in baseball right now. And as we say in Serbian, "TAĆKA." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 09:29 PM) '03-'08 is a six year span, not five. Anyway . . . Highest ERA+ between '03 and '08 w/ at least 1000 IP over that span: 1.) 156 - Johan Santana 2.) 143 - Brandon Webb 3.) 140 - Roy Halladay 4.) 136 - Roy Oswalt 5.) 132 - Carlos Zambrano 6.) 128 - CC Sabathia 7.) 125 - Jake Peavy 7.) 125 - Ben Sheets 9.) 124 - Tim Hudson 0.) 119 - Mark Buehrle Josh Beckett is 12th This is more or less what I was talking about: Highest ERA+ from '07 to date (min: 450 IP): 1.) 152 - Dan Haren 2.) 150 - Tim Lincecum 3.) 146 - Johan Santana 4.) 144 - CC Sabathia 4.) 144 - Brandon Webb 6.) 138 - Roy Halladay 7.) 135 - Jake Peavy 8.) 132 - Josh Beckett 9.) 128 - Matt Cain 9.) 128 - Adam Wainwright 11.) 127 - Mark Buehrle 12.) 126 - Felix Hernandez 12.) 126 - Cole Hamels 12.) 126 - John Lackey 12.) 126 - Cliff Lee 16.) 125 - Roy Oswalt Did you get baseball reference's play index? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 08:10 PM) Tim Lincecum and Dan Haren are the 2 best pitchers in baseball right now. And as we say in Serbian, "TAĆKA." Depending on how you define "Right now", I have to fire back with Greinke and King Felix, who are putting up incredible numbers in the big league circuit, either season-long or over the last 6 weeks or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I was going to say Santana with out looking at any stats, so glad to see that the stats back that up. Awesome to see Mark in the top 10 there as well. If any of you stat guys have some time I'd be interested to see where Buehrle ranks since he came into the league overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:17 PM) Depending on how you define "Right now", I have to fire back with Greinke and King Felix, who are putting up incredible numbers in the big league circuit, either season-long or over the last 6 weeks or so. Grienke hasn't been nearly as good since his amazing start, though he's pitched a few really good ones amidst some mediocre to bad ones. He's been giving up more unearned runs lately, and obviously if he's amongst the best pitchers in the game, he'd pitch over them a little better. I'm not a fan until he starts putting up consistent dominating numbers. Haren and Lincecum do that. King Felix I'll give you though. He's really been a forgotten stud. I seem to always forget about him. I'd put him 3rd after Lincecum and Haren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:20 PM) I was going to say Santana with out looking at any stats, so glad to see that the stats back that up. Ditto. Him and Brandon Webb instantly popped in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (qwerty @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:15 PM) Did you get baseball reference's play index? Yes, about 6 weeks after I said I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:20 PM) I was going to say Santana with out looking at any stats, so glad to see that the stats back that up. Awesome to see Mark in the top 10 there as well. If any of you stat guys have some time I'd be interested to see where Buehrle ranks since he came into the league overall. Best pitchers by ERA+ from 2001 to present w/ at least 1530 IP over that time (180 IP per + 90 IP for this year): (keep in mind this is an incredibly subjective timespan) 1.) 152 - Johan Santana 2.) 144 - Roy Halladay 3.) 137 - Roy Oswalt 4.) 132 - Randy Johnson 5.) 127 - Tim Hudson (everybody forgets about Tim Hudson) 6.) 123 - Mark Buehrle 7.) 121 - CC Sabathia 8.) 117 - Derek Lowe 9.) 114 - Mike Mussina 9.) 114 - Andy Pettitte Mark has the most IP in the game over that timespan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 09:35 PM) Best pitchers by ERA+ from 2001 to present w/ at least 1530 IP over that time (180 IP per + 90 IP for this year): (keep in mind this is an incredibly subjective timespan) 1.) 152 - Johan Santana 2.) 144 - Roy Halladay 3.) 137 - Roy Oswalt 4.) 132 - Randy Johnson 5.) 127 - Tim Hudson (everybody forgets about Tim Hudson) 6.) 123 - Mark Buehrle 7.) 121 - CC Sabathia 8.) 117 - Derek Lowe 9.) 114 - Mike Mussina 9.) 114 - Andy Pettitte Good stuff. I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'd have went with Santana and probably Webb but the only thing effecting Webb is the fact that he's been hurt this season. Santana is clearly #1 though. My eyes tell me it and the stats back it up too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benchwarmerjim Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Starter: Johan Santana Reliever: toss up between Mo Rivera and Joe Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Before I even read the entire title, I immediately thought Johan Santana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 How has Santana been since he has been in NY? The same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) Dan Haren last 3 years. Johan Santana last 5 years. Edited July 20, 2009 by Steve9347 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) Dan Haren THIS YEAR Johan Santana last 5 years. Fixed. I don't see how Haren's overall numbers are better than Johan the last 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 07:24 AM) How has Santana been since he has been in NY? The same? No, he hasn't been "The same" since he went to NY. He's 1 step below where he was with the Twins, which is still really, really good. Basically, he's progressing exactly like a pitcher should; his best seasons were when he was 25-28 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:20 PM) I was going to say Santana with out looking at any stats, so glad to see that the stats back that up. Awesome to see Mark in the top 10 there as well. If any of you stat guys have some time I'd be interested to see where Buehrle ranks since he came into the league overall. Johan Santana has been the best pitcher in baseball for years, and almost nobody ever seems to actually want to admit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 11:07 AM) No, he hasn't been "The same" since he went to NY. He's 1 step below where he was with the Twins, which is still really, really good. Basically, he's progressing exactly like a pitcher should; his best seasons were when he was 25-28 years old. He can't help if their bullpen has been lousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Over the last 5, it's Johan. But over the last couple, it has to be either Lincecum, Haren, or Halladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 09:45 AM) Fixed. I don't see how Haren's overall numbers are better than Johan the last 3 years. Major league ranks since the start of the '07 season: Haren Santana ERA+: 1st 3rd WHIP: 1st 3rd K/9: 7th 4th K/BB: 1st 9th IP: 3rd 3rd HR/9: 14th 24th QS%: 1st 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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