Jeremy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The point that BA shouldn't be starting over Pods is well taken - I'm not even sure that anyone has argued otherwise - but why is it so hard for some people to be reasonable and objective when discussing Anderson? His OBP is .320 so it's completely and demonstrably false that he gets on base zero times in a game (.000 OBP) or that he needs three starts to get on base two times (~ .166 OBP). The circular arguments that he's doesn't deserve the spot because he didn't "beat out" Wise and we know that he's bad because he didn't "beat out" Wise are equally bad. People are coming across like they have a huge ax to grind with BA or that they'll simply support any move made by Ozzie/management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (Jeremy @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) why is it so hard for some people to be reasonable and objective when discussing Anderson? I've been wondering this myself since 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 People are coming across like they have a huge ax to grind with BA or that they'll simply support any move made by Ozzie/management. Was this supposed to be in green? Soxtalk is home to the BA fanboy club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 02:57 PM) Was this supposed to be in green? Soxtalk is home to the BA fanboy club. It actually goes in either direction when you see the arguments. They're all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 01:20 PM) Wise is a decent runner and base stealer, a little better than BA in both categories, especially base stealing. With Q battling the PF, five of our nine regulars (JD, PK, JT, AJP, Q) need to be pinch run for in a game tying or game winning situation. He sucks, yes, but I think Wise's importance as a PR is being undervalued. Its more important to have a solid 4th OF than one who is slightly faster. Wise isn't Ricky F'n Henderson, being 2 steps faster than BA and 10 steps worse in every other facet of the game does not warrant a spot on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I love how thebighurt has to constantly insult people to try and get his point across. It's cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 09:44 PM) I'm sick to death of the topic that is Brian Anderson and the 327835065320643207344 excuses on why he's sucked from the moment he's put on a White Sox uniform. Does it really matter that Wise is on the team instead of him? Yeah, defense. I know, I know. But this division will not be won or lost because we don't have Brian to potentially make a good defensive play every now and then. The dude is awful with the bat. Easily negating any impact he could possibly make with the glove as a late-inning defensive replacement. No excuses for him anymore. The point is he's better than Wise, that's all. He's better offensively, he's better defensively, Wise is faster but it's not like Anderson is Konerko on the bases. As for this division not being won but Anderson's superior glove in the late inning, most likely that's the case, but I'm sure glad we didn't have to find out what would have happened if Anderson didn't make that diving catch in the 9th in the one game playoff last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 04:02 PM) No excuses for him anymore. The point is he's better than Wise, that's all. He's better offensively, he's better defensively, Wise is faster but it's not like Anderson is Konerko on the bases. As for this division not being won but Anderson's superior glove in the late inning, most likely that's the case, but I'm sure glad we didn't have to find out what would have happened if Anderson didn't make that diving catch in the 9th in the one game playoff last season. It was a slightly above average play that about 22-25 starting MLB centerfielders would/should also have made. Let's not overstate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 04:06 PM) It was a slightly above average play that about 22-25 starting MLB centerfielders would/should also have made. Let's not overstate it. None of which are currently on the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 11:29 AM) I agree, and my intention wasn't to argue in the first place. However, I felt the need to point out that Josh Anderson has been an absolutely pathetic offensive player. Wise is in a whole different category of pathetic. Willie Harris in CF now thats an option ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Was this supposed to be in green? Soxtalk is home to the BA fanboy club. I didn't claim that everyone behaved that way only that some people did. Do the arguments I cited sound as though they were made by members of "the BA fanboy club" to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I really don't see it as being about BA not getting a fair chance or having potential any more. Its just about BA sucking a lot less than Wise does especially as a bench player. He hits marginally better and he fields much, much better. Wise is slightly faster. Neither are a good choice but I think its pretty clear that BA> Wise right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Why? Anderson lost his job to Wise. You can tell me all you want that Ozzie hates him but the reality is he couldn't beat out Dwayne Wise and is now in Charlotte. Thats a pretty valid argument. And Wise is bad at baseball. Brian's options had a part in it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I love how thebighurt has to constantly insult people to try and get his point across. It's cute. Please define "insult" for me and please point out occurrences of them. Sorry if I'm frank with people when it comes to things, but it just annoys me when people defy common sense when trying to present a case. My attitude doesn't make my arguments any less valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (Jeremy @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 06:17 PM) I didn't claim that everyone behaved that way only that some people did. Do the arguments I cited sound as though they were made by members of "the BA fanboy club" to you? Jeremy, I totally agree with you. In the grand scheme of things, BA has incited the most interest and arguments out of any player or play than I can remember. And all of this 'excitement' is over a backup OFer. He's a career .225/.288 guy... the amount of excitement he garners is ridiculous. I understand people debate CF because that is the only real position we have with multiple players with 'debatable' statistics, but at the end of the day, all of the options out there suck. BA incites mass discussion when his numbers are undeserving. Yes, he's better than Wise, we all get that. But neither of them are very good, they just 'happen' to be our best options. Time to get over it and bring in someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 07:06 PM) Brian's options had a part in it as well. Maybe. I'm as big of fan of BA than anybody, but BA only has himself to blame for having to enjoy Charlotte at this time. He didn't have to do much to distinguish himself vs. Wise, and he failed to do so. Its on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 10:09 PM) Maybe. I'm as big of fan of BA than anybody, but BA only has himself to blame for having to enjoy Charlotte at this time. He didn't have to do much to distinguish himself vs. Wise, and he failed to do so. Its on him. What exactly are you referring to? I continue to be perplexed by this line of argument. Did he need to hit 50 points better than Wise instead of 40? Did his OBP need to be 100 points better than Wise instead of just 80? Was there something else he needed to do defensively to distinguish himself from a guy who makes blooper reel plays in CF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (Jeremy @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 12:38 PM) Was there something else he needed to do defensively to distinguish himself from a guy who makes blooper reel plays in CF? "Blooper reel"? Wise has a career .991 fielding% with only 3 errors with 322 PO, And in CF it's .993%. Brian is also a career .991% with 5 E to 540 PO. I'm not saying Wise is a great fielder or that he even deserves to be in the majors at all, but you make him sound like a bumbling fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (The Baconator @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) "Blooper reel"? Wise has a career .991 fielding% with only 3 errors with 322 PO, And in CF it's .993%. Brian is also a career .991% with 5 E to 540 PO. I'm not saying Wise is a great fielder or that he even deserves to be in the majors at all, but you make him sound like a bumbling fool. FPct is a relatively unhelpful fielding statistic, particularly for OF's. Most OF's make few errors, and the pct doesn't give you any idea on range, arm, jumps, reads, etc. There are a whole host of other measures you could use to get a better picture. But really, with defense, your best tool is your eyes. Wise gets really poor jumps and simply doesn't get to a lot of balls that Brian does, which won't show up in your PCT measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 21, 2009 -> 09:20 PM) Please define "insult" for me and please point out occurrences of them. QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 08:52 PM) Yeah, I'm serious. It's amazing that in a long, thought out paragraph there really was nothing to argue to actual point, just a wall of text disguised as insight. Not to say he's been solid or he would have been, but BA was NOT "given every opportunity," and Wise is an even WORSE player, so PLEASE stop with the "he lost his job to Wise" BS because I laughed so hard at that statement. He "lost his job" to a worse player and THAT'S grounds for making a childish assumption that BA will never be a good hitter? Where did you learn logic from? QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 09:02 PM) So forgive me for not thinking your analysis is ultimately worth a damn. Knowing that you are constantly insulting the owner of the site, and he has done nothing but engage in this argument with you in a civil manner, I am pretty amazed that you think that you are being frank and reasonable in this argument. Obviously you disagree with his opinion, but that does not make his wrong and certainly does not mean that he lacks common sense. Stop insulting people. Last warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 02:49 PM) FPct is a relatively unhelpful fielding statistic, particularly for OF's. Most OF's make few errors, and the pct doesn't give you any idea on range, arm, jumps, reads, etc. There are a whole host of other measures you could use to get a better picture. But really, with defense, your best tool is your eyes. Wise gets really poor jumps and simply doesn't get to a lot of balls that Brian does, which won't show up in your PCT measure. People still do tend to over-exaggerate Wise's lack of defensive ability (and I'm one of the biggest Wise bashers on this site). He's no worse than average, if you hit a fly ball to CF he will catch it. He's not good, but he's not Mackowiak bad by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I don't blame Pods for that one. It happens sometimes. His offense has kept us in games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 22, 2009 -> 02:30 PM) People still do tend to over-exaggerate Wise's lack of defensive ability (and I'm one of the biggest Wise bashers on this site). He's no worse than average, if you hit a fly ball to CF he will catch it. He's not good, but he's not Mackowiak bad by any means. I'd say Wise is average on the corners, a little below average in CF, based on what I see. But he's just not in the same league as BA defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 I swear on everything, I will never speak a bad word about Dewayne Wise again in my life. Ban me if I do. Please delete this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 03:13 PM) I swear on everything, I will never speak a bad word about Dewayne Wise again in my life. Ban me if I do. Please delete this thread. Don't make promises you can't keep. But I think it's safe to say that BA is officially a ghost now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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