What's wrong with Bobby Jenks?

[BearSox]

I've been concerned with Bobby since 2006. If he doesn't get his secondary stuff over, he's very hittable. Not to mention the screw in his elbow.

[whitesoxfan101]

In save situations: 25 G, 25 IP, 1.12 WHIP, 3.60 ERA, 8.28 K/9, 2.52 BB/9, 3 HR

 

In non-save situations: 9 G, 9 IP, 1.78 WHIP, 6.00 ERA, 12.00 K/9, 3.00 BB/9, 2 HR

 

In saves: 22 G, 22 IP, 0.86 WHIP, 1.64 ERA, 9.00 K/9, 2.04 BB/9, 1 HR

 

in blown saves: 3 G, 3 IP, 2.33 WHIP, 18.00 ERA, 3.00 K/9, 6.00 BB/9, 2 HR

 

So yeah, he's pretty atrocious in his blown saves and non-save situations.

 

With all due respect to your as usual spot on numbers, I don't think keeping Bobby out of non-save situations is going to fix everything.

[lostfan]

With all due respect to your as usual spot on numbers, I don't think keeping Bobby out of non-save situations is going to fix everything.

I don't think that's what he was saying.

[southsider2k5]

Out of his curiousity, did this downturn start when he went for the 1+ inning save?

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think that's what he was saying.

 

I don't either, but I've heard the old "his numbers are deceptive because he sucks in non save situations" argument enough times already. That has nothing to do with his stuff deteriorating.

[whitesoxfan101]

Out of his curiousity, did this downturn start when he went for the 1+ inning save?

 

It technically "started" the night before that, when he pitched in the opener of the Twins series when we were down 1 (I believe).

[Kalapse]

I wouldn't have a concern in the world with Bobby if not for how his stuff tends to look, which is not very good. I agree tonight was especially bad though, and this is honestly the first time (outside of maybe overreacting after a game, which I'm sure i've done several times) that I am legitimately concerned about Bobby.

That's just it, for the first 2 hitters yesterday his stuff was just incredible. That big bender was there and he was putting the ball where he wanted, it was maybe the best he's looked all year, he ended up striking out the side. His average fastball velocity this year is the highest it's been since '06 and he was showing off a wicked curve, slider and change just 26 hours ago so I'm finding it tough to be too worried about his stuff despite how flat he was today.

[WCSox]

The first couple hitters last night his stuff looked sick. Then he lost everything. I have no idea what is wrong with him but it almost has to be mental because he's gone out there and gotten the job done against equally tough teams with less stuff than he had last night.

 

His stuff last night was indeed sick at times... just inconsistent. He was throwing four pitches (four-seamer, hook, slider, and that change with late movement) for strikes before losing command, and then regaining it.

 

I imagine that he'll work through the command issues.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

That's just it, for the first 2 hitters yesterday his stuff was just incredible. That big bender was there and he was putting the ball where he wanted, it was maybe the best he's looked all year, he ended up striking out the side. His average fastball velocity this year is the highest it's been since '06 and he was showing off a wicked curve, slider and change just 26 hours ago so I'm finding it tough to be too worried about his stuff despite how flat he was today.

 

His off speed stuff looked great for the first 2 hitters last night, I don't think anybody would argue that. The fastball velocity thing baffles me though, because his heater has looked to the naked eye to be the worst it's ever been this year, and hitters seem to be hitting it harder than they ever have been.

Edited July 22, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[prochisox]

Well I dont have an answer for getting into a jam last night, but he did pitch 28 pitches last night and another 20 tonight. He just ran out of gas. I wanna give him a day or 2 off and see what happens then. Right now im not panicking but I am worried slightly.

[fathom]

His off speed stuff looked great for the first 2 hitters last night, I don't think anybody would argue that. The fastball velocity thing baffles me though, because his heater has looked to the naked eye to be the worst it's ever been this year, and hitters seem to be hitting it harder than they ever have been.

 

But even last night, Hawk was SHOCKED that Pena was able to turn around a high fastball from Jenks and hit it 400 feet into the upper deck foul.

[whitesoxfan101]

But even last night, Hawk was SHOCKED that Pena was able to turn around a high fastball from Jenks and hit it 400 feet into the upper deck foul.

 

Maybe the stuff isn't as different as the hitters reaction to it in terms of the fastball itself. I actually do what Hawk says in this case which is watch the hitter, and the hitters look immeasurably more comfortable now against his heat than they did in the past.

[beautox]

I think he needs a clean shave.

 

this time to shave the "nasty".

 

seriously though his stuff is there, hes just not locating. In the long run i think he will be fine but its so frustrating that over these past five games he hasn't been automatic.

[SI1020]

His off speed stuff looked great for the first 2 hitters last night, I don't think anybody would argue that. The fastball velocity thing baffles me though, because his heater has looked to the naked eye to be the worst it's ever been this year, and hitters seem to be hitting it harder than they ever have been.

I agree about the fastball. At times he's been able to mix in a knee buckling curveball and a decent slider. When those pitches are not working as well the diminshed fastball is very hittable. Count me among those concerned about Jenks.

[Kyyle23]

I think this thread about Bobbys velocity and slump is pretty much clockwork every year. Thats not to say I think he has been fine, but I do think he will get past it

[Harry Chappas]

Well I dont have an answer for getting into a jam last night, but he did pitch 28 pitches last night and another 20 tonight. He just ran out of gas. I wanna give him a day or 2 off and see what happens then. Right now im not panicking but I am worried slightly.

 

BINGO, he faced 6 or 7 hitters I am guessing 35 pitches on Saturday and another 28 Monday, after last night that is between 75-80 pitches in three days. last night should have been Dotel/Thorton in the 9th.

 

Dotel has to be traded as they are not using him any longer for some reason.

[Steve9347]

Why is it that everytime it seems like Bobby's stuff "is back" is right around the time he starts getting hit/screwing things up. He made it scary on Saturday, he made it scary on Monday, and he blew it last night.

 

With this, he was featuring a bad-ass new two-seamer/sinker, and his curveball looked as good as ever.

 

I'm not about to say "pull him from the closer's role", but he has GOT to remember he's great when he pitches, but wild when he throws.

[Lemon_44]

whoeversaid the scouting report to hit the first fastball probably has it right. He was throwing a 92 mph fastball down the middle last night. Not too many guys are going to miss that, especially when they are looking for it. Still,if he was getting up there at 95-97, they're not hitting the rockets that they were last night. I couldn't tell if he was throwing the cutter but he needs to get that heater back up, at least occasionally,to 95+ to put it the hitters mind that he still has that.

[soxfan-kwman]

he's in a slump just like every other player in the history of baseball gets into from time to time. Thats it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree that is it, nothing more, nothing less. He has been our most consistent playe the last 4 years. Even in the bad 2007 season, Bobby was still money!! He could lose the chin pubes!!

[lostfan]

I agree that is it, nothing more, nothing less. He has been our most consistent playe the last 4 years. Even in the bad 2007 season, Bobby was still money!! He could lose the chin pubes!!

Jermaine Dye says hi

[hogan873]

I don't think we can compare the Bobby Jenks of 2005 with the Bobby Jenks of 2009 (aside from the chin hairs). However, I see him throwing more secondary pitches now than before. He used to be money with the heat and then the nasty hook. I wonder if his use of more secondary pitches has hurt him. I suppose the days of 98-100 mph fastballs are over, and maybe that's why he needs the slider and change. Watching him, though, I just don't think he has the confidence in his stuff he used to.

[WCSox]

I don't think we can compare the Bobby Jenks of 2005 with the Bobby Jenks of 2009 (aside from the chin hairs). However, I see him throwing more secondary pitches now than before. He used to be money with the heat and then the nasty hook. I wonder if his use of more secondary pitches has hurt him. I suppose the days of 98-100 mph fastballs are over, and maybe that's why he needs the slider and change. Watching him, though, I just don't think he has the confidence in his stuff he used to.

 

Coop changed Jenks' mechanics after 2005 to put less stress on his surgically-repaired elbow and to allow him to throw those secondary pitches effectively. Jenks throwing 94-96 and being able to locate the hook is a lot more effective than Jenks throwing nothing but fastballs at 98-100. And Jenks able to throw the mid-90s four-seamer, hook, slider, and that change with late movement would be unhittable if he had command of all four.

 

[hogan873]

Coop changed Jenks' mechanics after 2005 to put less stress on his surgically-repaired elbow and to allow him to throw those secondary pitches effectively. Jenks throwing 94-96 and being able to locate the hook is a lot more effective than Jenks throwing nothing but fastballs at 98-100. And Jenks able to throw the mid-90s four-seamer, hook, slider, and that change with late movement would be unhittable if he had command of all four.

 

Thanks for the info. I assumed that Coop had something to do with it. I've seen Bobby very effective with his slider (the last K on Monday night), and his fastball has shown some great movement. I hope that he can get command of his stuff. If he does and becomes lights-out, he could bring the Sox a good return in a trade...which I assume will happen.

[WCSox]

Thanks for the info. I assumed that Coop had something to do with it. I've seen Bobby very effective with his slider (the last K on Monday night), and his fastball has shown some great movement. I hope that he can get command of his stuff. If he does and becomes lights-out, he could bring the Sox a good return in a trade...which I assume will happen.

 

I've been against trading Jenks for the past couple of seasons, but am beginning to open up to the idea of putting him on the block this off-season (and not just because he's pitched poorly this month). He's getting expensive and, frankly, he isn't an elite closer. He's definitely a very good closer, but not an irreplaceable Rivera- or Nathan-type talent. If the Sox are going into a retooling movement next year (heck, they've already started this year), getting some high-tier prospects and shedding payroll may very well pay off down the road.

 

And it pains me to say this, because I have nothing but respect for the guy. Doing what he did as a rookie in the 2005 playoffs takes some serious stones, and I'll forever be indebted to him for that. But dealing him at some point in the not-too-distant future is probably what's best for the team.

 

[hogan873]

I've been against trading Jenks for the past couple of seasons, but am beginning to open up to the idea of putting him on the block this off-season (and not just because he's pitched poorly this month). He's getting expensive and, frankly, he isn't an elite closer. He's definitely a very good closer, but not an irreplaceable Rivera- or Nathan-type talent. If the Sox are going into a retooling movement next year (heck, they've already started this year), getting some high-tier prospects and shedding payroll may very well pay off down the road.

 

And it pains me to say this, because I have nothing but respect for the guy. Doing what he did as a rookie in the 2005 playoffs takes some serious stones, and I'll forever be indebted to him for that. But dealing him at some point in the not-too-distant future is probably what's best for the team.

 

I agree. He'll forever be that guy who struck out Bagwell with three 99-100 mph fastballs and who closed the deal on one of the most exciting (and stressful) deciding WS games. You can't help but the like the guy. But it may be time to trade him. Question is, who becomes our next closer? I'm not too familiar with the minors, and I assume that's where he would come from.