What's wrong with Bobby Jenks?

[Balta1701]

I agree. He'll forever be that guy who struck out Bagwell with three 99-100 mph fastballs and who closed the deal on one of the most exciting (and stressful) deciding WS games. You can't help but the like the guy. But it may be time to trade him. Question is, who becomes our next closer? I'm not too familiar with the minors, and I assume that's where he would come from.

Quite frankly, right now it's Thornton next in line. But that also means we'd be down to 0 situational lefties in the pen currently.

[nitetrain8601]

I agree. He'll forever be that guy who struck out Bagwell with three 99-100 mph fastballs and who closed the deal on one of the most exciting (and stressful) deciding WS games. You can't help but the like the guy. But it may be time to trade him. Question is, who becomes our next closer? I'm not too familiar with the minors, and I assume that's where he would come from.

 

To me, he's the guy who brought Bagwell to his knees, begging for mercy, or at least an offspeed pitch to have a chance. Regardless though, it's clear as day, even though there will be people who still argue to this day, Bobby throwing 100mph with the mean hook, is better than the Bobby with 93mph fastball with a slider, curve, and two seamer. I don't even care anymore if it's about Bobby being able to throw 100mph, or Coop just telling him not to throw 100mph. Regardless though, the only guy I have trust in without a doubt is Matt Thornton.

[WCSox]

Quite frankly, right now it's Thornton next in line. But that also means we'd be down to 0 situational lefties in the pen currently.

 

It could be Poreda, although he's far from a proven commodity. Richard also comes to mind, but I see him as an eventual 5th starter.

 

Kenny might have to tap into free agency for a LOOGY.

 

[WCSox]

Regardless though, it's clear as day, even though there will be people who still argue to this day, Bobby throwing 100mph with the mean hook, is better than the Bobby with 93mph fastball with a slider, curve, and two seamer. I don't even care anymore if it's about Bobby being able to throw 100mph, or Coop just telling him not to throw 100mph.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that Bobby can throw 100 mph without changing the mechanics necessary to throw that hook for strikes. If he could, he'd probably be doing it right now.

 

[elrockinMT]

What's the problem with Jenks? That's what I want to know about it.

 

Pithces with no movement or lack of control or lack of confidence in his heat. Could be all three I reckon. But, whatever it is he needs to start showinhg some confidence in bringing that 97 MPH plus fastball at the hitter. You cringe everytime Jenks lets that first batter on and inside you just know he is going to blow it. I hope that we aren't seeing a rebirth of Billy Koch.

Edited July 22, 2009 by elrockinMT

[Pumpkin Escobar]

His velocity is down. Everyone always talks about how he can bring it if he wants and he can't. He sits around 94-95. Which isn't bad and his curveball is still unhittable.

 

I still love that story about how the Twins scouts just tell their hitters not to even both swinging at it. It is a nasty pitch.

 

His bigger problem is he isnt controlling the 94-95 or they time it and ends up needing to groove one at like 92.

 

I was at the game Monday and he had a couple opportunities to prove he could still blow it by and just couldnt hit higher then 95. Maybe its the gun or maybe it's just him and we need to realize it.

 

I think in the long run he'll be fine but I don't expect him on the club past this season. His price will be too much (10 mil +?), he is constantly out of shape in the offseason and during the season for that matter, and the guy has a screw in his arm.

 

What other reasons are there not to deal him?

Edited July 22, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar

[nitetrain8601]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that Bobby can throw 100 mph without changing the mechanics necessary to throw that hook for strikes. If he could, he'd probably be doing it right now.

 

True, but back then, as long as the fastball was near the strike zone, guys were swinging at it. Then all he had to do is throw the hook anywhere, and those guys would basically be gone. Bobby Jenks back then was everything Billy Koch was supposed to be for Kenny.

 

Anyway, I know it's been alluded to, but why isn't Ozzie using Dotel? I hate the guy because of his Jekkyl and Hyde performances, but it beats throwing Poreda and company out there. Plus, I think we should ease in Pena a little more.

[WCSox]

True, but back then, as long as the fastball was near the strike zone, guys were swinging at it. Then all he had to do is throw the hook anywhere, and those guys would basically be gone.

 

My memory may be failing me, but I don't recall Bobby throwing that hook very often in 2005. I didn't see it until 2006, after he changed his mechanics and was topping out at 96-97. His hook is worthless if he can't throw it over the plate. Hitters will sit on his fastball.

 

 

[fathom]

My memory may be failing me, but I don't recall Bobby throwing that hook very often in 2005. I didn't see it until 2006, after he changed his mechanics and was topping out at 96-97. His hook is worthless if he can't throw it over the plate. Hitters will sit on his fastball.

 

He threw it all the time with 2 strikes in 2005. His hook is a lot less effective now because hitters don't have to start their swing as fast with the fastball coming in at a more hittable speed.

[whitesoxfan101]

I've been against trading Jenks for the past couple of seasons, but am beginning to open up to the idea of putting him on the block this off-season (and not just because he's pitched poorly this month). He's getting expensive and, frankly, he isn't an elite closer. He's definitely a very good closer, but not an irreplaceable Rivera- or Nathan-type talent. If the Sox are going into a retooling movement next year (heck, they've already started this year), getting some high-tier prospects and shedding payroll may very well pay off down the road.

 

And it pains me to say this, because I have nothing but respect for the guy. Doing what he did as a rookie in the 2005 playoffs takes some serious stones, and I'll forever be indebted to him for that. But dealing him at some point in the not-too-distant future is probably what's best for the team.

 

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

I think this thread about Bobbys velocity and slump is pretty much clockwork every year. Thats not to say I think he has been fine, but I do think he will get past it

 

Yeah, and as irrational a fan as I am often times, I have usually been the guy defending Jenks in this thread. I can't do it anymore though, every year the price for Bobby goes up and the velocity on his fastball goes down. We're reached critical mass, and more specfically, I think this winter we will have reached the time where trading him must at least be very strongly considered.

Edited July 22, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[nitetrain8601]

He threw it all the time with 2 strikes in 2005. His hook is a lot less effective now because hitters don't have to start their swing as fast with the fastball coming in at a more hittable speed.

 

Yep. And back then, that curveball had some serious bite. Like it was definitely a hammer, especially after seeing two straight 100mph fastballs.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yep. And back then, that curveball had some serious bite. Like it was definitely a hammer, especially after seeing two straight 100mph fastballs.

 

I actually think when he has the curveball now, it has just as much bite. It's just not nearly as nasty to the eye of the hitter when the fastball is 92-93 instead of 98-100.

[fathom]

Yep. And back then, that curveball had some serious bite. Like it was definitely a hammer, especially after seeing two straight 100mph fastballs.

 

In 2005, Jenks had some of the most electric stuff I had seen from a pitcher in my lifetime. Now his stuff is pretty average for a closer.

[fathom]

Yep. And back then, that curveball had some serious bite. Like it was definitely a hammer, especially after seeing two straight 100mph fastballs.

 

He threw a curveball to strike out Jason Lane in the top of the 9th of WS Game 1 that was just insane.

[whitesoxfan101]

In 2005, Jenks had some of the most electric stuff I had seen from a pitcher in my lifetime. Now his stuff is pretty average for a closer.

 

I think his curveball is the only true plus pitch he has left. His others might be very slightly above average perhaps, but that's about it. I agree about his 2005 stuff though, it was unbelieveable.

Edited July 22, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[WCSox]

He threw it all the time with 2 strikes in 2005. His hook is a lot less effective now because hitters don't have to start their swing as fast with the fastball coming in at a more hittable speed.

 

My mistake.

 

[fathom]

I think his curveball is the only true plus pitch he has left. His others might be very slightly above average perhaps, but that's about it. I agree about his 2005 stuff though, it was unbelieveable.

 

I really think he needs to throw the change-up more often to lefties. My opinion is he's fallen in love with his sinker, and that's due to all the homers he gave up earlier in the year. The problem is his sinker is a lot more hittable. One thing to keep in mind when he pitches is the defensive positioning. There's a lot of holes on the field due to the "prevent" defense. It's a big reason why strike outs are so important for him.

[WCSox]

I really think he needs to throw the change-up more often to lefties.

 

He needs to throw it more in general. That late movement is Santana-like.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

I really think he needs to throw the change-up more often to lefties. My opinion is he's fallen in love with his sinker, and that's due to all the homers he gave up earlier in the year. The problem is his sinker is a lot more hittable. One thing to keep in mind when he pitches is the defensive positioning. There's a lot of holes on the field due to the "prevent" defense. It's a big reason why strike outs are so important for him.

 

He definitely needs to throw the change-up more, but I'm not sure if he will because he doesn't seem to trust it. I would say the change-up is the closest thing he has to a plus pitch besides his curveball, but I can't call a pitch I don't see all that often from a guy a plus pitch in his arsenal. And yeah, you are absolutely right about the prevent defense point, which is why sometimes when closers struggle I don't think it's as big a deal, and also why strikeouts are so important for them. But he's been giving up some very hard hit balls in my opinion, not a lot of the hits have been prevent defense related (although one of them was prevent defense/Pods not trying to catch the ball for some reason related on Monday.)

[kwolf68]

 

Jenks has never been an elite closer. His career ERA and WHIP are decent, but not elite level stuff. When a decent pitcher has a slump, he is below average and that's what is happening with Jenks.

 

He's a player I'd most definately deal as I think we wouldn't be so much worse off with Thornton closing games (though it'd shuffle the lefty setup guy).

[Pumpkin Escobar]

I don't know who'd have interest in Jenks right now. He sucks over the last X games, his velocity down is no secret, and teams are afraid to pony up the two prospects we'd likely get since he is and will continue to probably be until he hits FA. He is also becoming very expensive.

 

I'd like to see if we can move a couple prospects to our friends in Atlanta should they fall out for Gonzalez. He has experience as a closer and if we prefer Matty T then so be it. But he seems to have been pushed out of the duties for Soriano down there. Fields + _____ anyone?

 

Then if you can find someone willing to move for Jenks and net two top prospects. I'd do it.

 

It's not so much that he is bad right now - cuz frankly he is still pretty good - its the fear that he keeps getting worse, heavier, more expensive, and closer to the day that screw pops out. ha

Edited July 22, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar

[Lemon_44]

The sad thing is we're sitting here talking about Jenks lack of velocity and you have JP Howell coming in throwing an 85 MPH heater and striking out 2 of 3 with weak grounder back to him for the 3rd out.

[BigSqwert]

The sad thing is we're sitting here talking about Jenks lack of velocity and you have JP Howell coming in throwing an 85 MPH heater and striking out 2 of 3 with weak grounder back to him for the 3rd out.

he was keeping hitters off balance with great movement and a change of speeds.

[fathom]

He definitely needs to throw the change-up more, but I'm not sure if he will because he doesn't seem to trust it. I would say the change-up is the closest thing he has to a plus pitch besides his curveball, but I can't call a pitch I don't see all that often from a guy a plus pitch in his arsenal. And yeah, you are absolutely right about the prevent defense point, which is why sometimes when closers struggle I don't think it's as big a deal, and also why strikeouts are so important for them. But he's been giving up some very hard hit balls in my opinion, not a lot of the hits have been prevent defense related (although one of them was prevent defense/Pods not trying to catch the ball for some reason related on Monday.)

 

He's claiming he lost it in the lights, but I think he misjudged how far it would travel.

[WCSox]

I don't know who'd have interest in Jenks right now. He sucks over the last X games, his velocity down is no secret, and teams are afraid to pony up the two prospects we'd likely get since he is and will continue to probably be until he hits FA. He is also becoming very expensive.

 

I'd like to see if we can move a couple prospects to our friends in Atlanta should they fall out for Gonzalez. He has experience as a closer and if we prefer Matty T then so be it. But he seems to have been pushed out of the duties for Soriano down there. Fields + _____ anyone?

 

Then if you can find someone willing to move for Jenks and net two top prospects. I'd do it.

 

It's not so much that he is bad right now - cuz frankly he is still pretty good - its the fear that he keeps getting worse, heavier, more expensive, and closer to the day that screw pops out. ha

 

I think that you just answered your own question. I imagine that several teams would be interested in a guy like Jenks, who is still under team control from year-to-year through 2011. Even if arbitration puts him at $8 or $9 million next year and he blows out his elbow, it's not a terribly risky investment for a very good closer with a proven track record.