Can I get a Thome extension?

[Steve9347]

This is interesting. The dude, at age 38, is still racking up a .400 OBP. He's the lefty stick you don't realize you miss until he's gone. In our ballpark, he could get to 600 bombs in another two years, and I'd really like to see that happen with the White Sox.

 

I presume given the youth movement in Major League Baseball, Big Jim wouldn't cost too much to extend. I'd like to see that happen.

 

This does bring up the whole Jermaine Dye issue, and whether we want to extend him and commit to him in right field, but I think he's rightfully so in line for a rather hefty payday (say a 3 year deal similar to what Ibanez got last year), whereas Thome could be had for less... I would assume.

 

Anyway, just ranting on an underrated player.

[103 mph screwball]

I think he will be back at a reduced salary to chase after 600 HR and because from everything I hear and read, the team loves him. Konerko said playing with Jim is the highlight of his career after the World Series. He will have to come back for less money. He will have fewer places that need and aging DH so his options will be limited if he still wants to play. I don't think he will mind taking less cash after making a fortune on his last contract to stay with a contending team he is comfortable with near his home. I think there will be a one year deal. I'm guessing 5-6 million.

[rangercal]

I agree. Bring back Thome. 600 in a sox Uni would be awesome.

[Balta1701]

One of either Thome or Dye should be re-upped for at least next year to DH for us. I can make an argument for either:

 

JD is younger, and is putting up better all around numbers, and probably would put up slightly more power/RBI's next year. Can also play the OF a few times during interleague.

 

Thome will give you the OBP, pure power, and is our biggest LH bat threat. He may also be cheaper, and a run at 600 home runs has to be good for advertising.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Bring the band back (Thome and Dye) for at least another year.

[YASNY]

There's a lot to consider here. Do you sign Thome again and for how much? If so, JD has been awesome in a Sox uniform and the odds are he has a few good years left. However, you have to take defense into account and though I don't think he's been as bad some people seem to think, it will certainly be an issue in the future. Unless ... can JD play 1B? I think he's athletic enough to do so and if that's the case, what about Paulie? He also deserves the respect the other two do, so do you trade him and put Dye at first? Or do you keep all three? I don't know yet. I've been thinking about this dilemma for quite some time and still haven't come up the answer.

[Balta1701]

The big issue is that to keep either of them, we have to sign them early, since the arbitration-offer deadline is around December 1. This means we have to meet their price pretty early.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Money aside, because we don't know who would cost what, but in my opinion Thome is showing some diminished skills while Dye is/has been in peak form for the last several years. If the game is on the line or we need a big hit I just don't have the confidence in Thome as I do with JD. I'd love to see Jimmy stick around, just not sure that he should do so at the cost of losing JD.

 

[Balta1701]

Money aside, because we don't know who would cost what, but in my opinion Thome is showing some diminished skills while Dye is/has been in peak form for the last several years. If the game is on the line or we need a big hit I just don't have the confidence in Thome as I do with JD. I'd love to see Jimmy stick around, just not sure that he should do so at the cost of losing JD.

Every time someone says Jim's bat speed is slowing down, or he's wearing out, skills diminishing, whatever, he seems to respond with something like last wee's 14 RBI's in 3 games burst. Jim is still just as streaky as always. When he's going bad he looks like he's slowing down, then 3 days later there's a ball bouncing off the scoreboard and you're wondering how the Hell you can hit a ball that hard off a wooden bat without some part of the equation vaporizing.

[YASNY]

Money aside, because we don't know who would cost what, but in my opinion Thome is showing some diminished skills while Dye is/has been in peak form for the last several years. If the game is on the line or we need a big hit I just don't have the confidence in Thome as I do with JD. I'd love to see Jimmy stick around, just not sure that he should do so at the cost of losing JD.

 

So, you lose your left handed power with a high OBP. That's not easily replaced. Can Thome maintain that? Who knows.

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think you can keep Jim and Jermaine after this season. I was a proponent of keeping JD as a DH, but Jim continues to produce big time, and he's a left handed bat. I think we should keep one of them, but the question is, which one? It's a very difficult decision, and part of what makes it difficult is wondering how long either (or both) of them can mantain current production levels.

Edited July 23, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[Greg Hibbard]

Jim has great stats in terms of OBP and OPS, but consider this...out of his 57 walks this season, he's only scored on 11 of them. So, how valuable are his walks, really?

 

I bring up this point because his batting average is pretty low these days, and I don't think with the way the team is constructed, him walking with say 2 outs is particularly advantageous to the club, because of his station to station nature as well as the station to station nature of the heart of the order. Sure, in the bottom of the eighth or ninth when we can pinch run, it's useful.

 

If his batting average were a bit higher, I'd say go for it, but it's likely to regress further, even if he continues to take walks. The walks that are propping up his OPS just aren't that useful. His RBI+R are

 

And I love this man and would love to keep him...but realistically we need to get out after 2009.

Edited July 23, 2009 by Greg Hibbard

[BigSqwert]

Jim has great stats in terms of OBP and OPS, but consider this...out of his 57 walks this season, he's only scored on 11 of them. So, how valuable are his walks, really?

 

I bring up this point because his batting average is pretty low these days, and I don't think with the way the team is constructed, him walking with say 2 outs is particularly advantageous to the club, because of his station to station nature as well as the station to station nature of the heart of the order. Sure, in the bottom of the eighth or ninth when we can pinch run, it's useful.

 

If his batting average were a bit higher, I'd say go for it, but it's likely to regress further, even if he continues to take walks. The walks that are propping up his OPS just aren't that useful. His RBI+R are

 

And I love this man and would love to keep him...but realistically we need to get out after 2009.

I love it when you analyze

[SoxFan562004]

It will be interesting. I love Thome and Dye both, but not sure if I want both back next year. Dye at least give the Sox flexability with a DH who can play the field, and if brought back, would like to see him get a ton of work at 1b in ST. That way nagging injuries to others and interleague is helped by having a flexible DH.

 

However, Thome is still putting the numbers up and like Steve points out, probably a bat we wouldn't miss until it's gone.

 

If you get rid of either you have to bring in another impact bat. Personally I would see what the Nats want for Dunn's last year on his contract, but there's obviously other guys out there

 

 

 

[BearSox]

I think the easy answer is JD. I thought about Big Jim earlier, but his bat has clearly slowed down, and he struggles to catch up to most fastballs now. Plus, he's becoming even streakier, his strikeout seems to be increasing, can only play DH and has injury concerns, and is now officially the slowest player on the White Sox and perhaps in all of baseball.

 

I actually doubt he'll be able to come close to 600 next year, that's how much his bat has slowed down. Sure, he still has hot streaks where he hits the daylights out of the ball, but those are becomming more and more infrequent. He also still walks a ton and gets on base at a great clip, but he can only score on a home run, or go from 1st to 3rd on a double. He can only score from second on a double.

 

JD will produce more in the long run, and as much as I'll be sad to see Big Jim go, JD gives the team a better shot at competing and winning.

[YASNY]

Jim has great stats in terms of OBP and OPS, but consider this...out of his 57 walks this season, he's only scored on 11 of them. So, how valuable are his walks, really?

 

I bring up this point because his batting average is pretty low these days, and I don't think with the way the team is constructed, him walking with say 2 outs is particularly advantageous to the club, because of his station to station nature as well as the station to station nature of the heart of the order. Sure, in the bottom of the eighth or ninth when we can pinch run, it's useful.

 

If his batting average were a bit higher, I'd say go for it, but it's likely to regress further, even if he continues to take walks. The walks that are propping up his OPS just aren't that useful. His RBI+R are

 

And I love this man and would love to keep him...but realistically we need to get out after 2009.

 

How many guys did his walks push up on the bases that actually did score?

[SoxFan562004]

Jim has great stats in terms of OBP and OPS, but consider this...out of his 57 walks this season, he's only scored on 11 of them. So, how valuable are his walks, really?

 

I bring up this point because his batting average is pretty low these days, and I don't think with the way the team is constructed, him walking with say 2 outs is particularly advantageous to the club, because of his station to station nature as well as the station to station nature of the heart of the order. Sure, in the bottom of the eighth or ninth when we can pinch run, it's useful.

 

If his batting average were a bit higher, I'd say go for it, but it's likely to regress further, even if he continues to take walks. The walks that are propping up his OPS just aren't that useful. His RBI+R are

 

And I love this man and would love to keep him...but realistically we need to get out after 2009.

I agree he's not scoring on his walks, but if Thome goes the Sox need to bring another OBP guy who takes a lot of pitches in. To me an underated part of his game is helping get pitch counts up. As much as he's hated on this board, last year when the Sox had Swisher, Q and Thome in that was 3 guys willing to take pitches, and I think it helped get starters pitch counts up and into the pen quicker, which is a major help. In 06 and 07 I saw too many SPs going deep into the games and making easy pen decisions for the Sox opponents

[WCSox]

I like Thome's leadership, left-handed bat, and general awesomeness as a hitter. But I really think that Dye is a better fit for this team for the next 2-3 years. He's younger, has less change of experiencing age-related diminished skills, has had fewer nagging injury problems, and can do something other than DH. While Thome has the OBP advantage via walks, Dye has the slugging advantage this season (a trend that may continue). I'd give JD the slight edge for the future.

 

[WCSox]

JD will produce more in the long run, and as much as I'll be sad to see Big Jim go, JD gives the team a better shot at competing and winning.

 

Hey, you and I agree on something!

 

 

[Greg Hibbard]

How many guys did his walks push up on the bases that actually did score?

 

 

GREAT point, actually.

 

Here are games where this occured (Thome did not score on these walks himself, but they were "productive walks"):

 

4/13 Sox 10 Det 6, Thome walks with no outs in the 3rd inning to push up Fields and Quentin, who score on a double by konerko after a dye k (Thome is out on a subsequent FC to home)

 

5/10 Tex 7, Sox 1, Thome walks after Dye gets on base to push him to second. Konerko GIDPs, Dye to third who scores on a two out wild pitch.

 

5/26 Sox 4, LAA 2, Thome walks with one out pushing Alexei to second, he scores on a Konerko single.

 

6/6 Sox 4, Cle 2, Thome walks with one out and Pods already at third, which allows Konerko to hit him in on a sac fly.

 

6/8 Det 5, Sox 4, Thome walks with one out to push up Pods and Dye, setting up a sac fly with one out.

 

6/9 Det 7, Sox 6, Thome walks with the bases loaded to "drive" in a run.

 

6/14 Sox 5, Mil 4, Thome pinch walks the go-ahead run in the ninth inning to win the game for the sox (Clayton Richard pinch runs!)

 

6/29 Sox 6, Cle 3, Thome walks with nobody out to push up two runners who eventually score while Thome is out on an FC.

 

7/1 Sox 6, Cle 2, Thome walks with two outs to extend an inning and pushing Alexei up. Konerko doubles home Ramirez, Thome is thrown out at home on the same play.

 

7/11 Sox 8, Twins 7, Thome walks with one out to push Dye to second, who then scores on a Konerko single.

 

Total of 10 more walks. So Thome's "productive/run scoring" walk total is now up to 21/57, which I think still indicates that the value his walks/OBP/OPS have to the team might be overstated. Interesting to note that when Thome has one of these productive walks that he doesn't score on, the Sox are 7-3 in those games.

Edited July 23, 2009 by Greg Hibbard

[YASNY]

Over one third of his walks ... wait, let me rephrase that ... we have scored more than a run per every three walks Thome has gotten. I don't think that is over stating the value at all. In fact, I believe you are understating that value.

[lostfan]

Over one third of his walks ... wait, let me rephrase that ... we have scored more than a run per every three walks Thome has gotten. I don't think that is over stating the value at all. In fact, I believe you are understating that value.

I look at it as "4 of 10 times he is at bat he won't make an out." That's oversimplifying it some since today's emphasis on OBP sometimes has a tendency to act like hitting isn't important but when Thome hits the ball (about 1/4 of the time) he is likely to hit the piss out of it.

[Greg Hibbard]

Over one third of his walks ... wait, let me rephrase that ... we have scored more than a run per every three walks Thome has gotten. I don't think that is over stating the value at all. In fact, I believe you are understating that value.

 

 

1/3rd sounds impressive because we are talking about baseball statistics where a third is usually impressive...however, we would need to examine other players' statistics similarly to get an idea as to how much we should expect from the average player, no?

[YASNY]

1/3rd sounds impressive because we are talking about baseball statistics where a third is usually impressive...however, we would need to examine other players' statistics similarly to get an idea as to how much we should expect from the average player, no?

 

Good point, but OBP is a very important and relative stat. But, once Thome is on 1st base, he doesn't much say into whether or not he scores.

[CanOfCorn]

If the overall team speed is improved (and CQ's foot fully recovers this offseason), which it looks like it has...then I don't see why they couldn't bring them both back for one more year. Yes, they clog the bases, along with AJ, but this team around them is speedier...so I don't see what the big deal would be for one more year.

 

After that though, JD should be the DH.

 

Oops, one more thing...maybe Jermaine doesn't WANT to DH yet. If that's the case, he will sign with a team willing to put him out in RF and this question is moot.

Edited July 23, 2009 by CanOfCorn