The Day After-- Sox vs Tigers (Contreras vs Verlander) 12:05PM CSN

[SoxFan562004]

Contreras gave us 6+ innings of 2 run ball and seemed like he was left out there too long to me.

Yeah, I agree, this is a game where a guys final line looks much worse than he pitched. They had a couple of bloopers that dropped against him (not taking away from the Tigers, good approaches). He pitched well, didn't walk anyone for awhile had some strikeouts, he was a victim of pitching the 1st game of a DH against a great pitcher and Colon pitching the 2nd game. IMO Ozzie did the smart thing by not blowing through the pen in the 1st game.

[southsideirish71]

Dude, it wouldn't be so bad if they just f'in tried. That is what makes this season so painful. Remember the 9-10 shutouts? Who the heck wants to go throgh that again. Man I swear sometimes I just can't figure them out offensively. And I have not even started on that terrible bonehead lapse they have on defense every other day.Whoa not worth gettig upset about but it can't be the same team that just taught the defending AL champs a lesson in fundamentals!!!!!!!!! Where the heck did they go? Becks is a rookie and you have to allow for that but the rest, dunno!!!

 

They are trying. Verlander is an excellent pitcher. My only complaint is that they seemed to get active early in the count. Beating a tier 1 stuff guy like Verlander is about getting his ass back to the bench and out of the game as quickly as possible. Especially when he has a high pitch count earlier in the game. Outside of that hitting, 98 mph fastballs with 12/6 curveballs to back it up is sick. You can't expect them to center up and drive that type of stuff. We will have to live with the defensive plays right now as this team is what it is. Its frustrating, but won't be changed until this off season. I believe they will move Beckham to 2nd, who will be a fine defensive 2nd baseman. Hopefully they can pick up someone to play 3rd. And then maybe an OF and move Dye to DH. That should help clean up things a bit.

 

 

[Balta1701]

They are trying. Verlander is an excellent pitcher. My only complaint is that they seemed to get active early in the count. Beating a tier 1 stuff guy like Verlander is about getting his ass back to the bench and out of the game as quickly as possible. Especially when he has a high pitch count earlier in the game. Outside of that hitting, 98 mph fastballs with 12/6 curveballs to back it up is sick. You can't expect them to center up and drive that type of stuff. We will have to live with the defensive plays right now as this team is what it is. Its frustrating, but won't be changed until this off season. I believe they will move Beckham to 2nd, who will be a fine defensive 2nd baseman. Hopefully they can pick up someone to play 3rd. And then maybe an OF and move Dye to DH. That should help clean up things a bit.

They've had solid success with the "Swing early" game plan against Verlander in the past. The problem today seemed to be that they totally failed to adapt in-game to what he was doing.

[caulfield12]

Wonder if it wouldn't have been better to have Colon go up against Verlander, and slot Contreras against Bonine instead?

 

That's kind of a loser's mentality, though, where you're hoping for but not expecting the split. Everyone seems to already be jumping off the ledge because we were pretty flat today. That's silly. It's not like we lost in the same fashion the Twins have been losing in. If Contreras had been able to beat their ace, we would have been in a great position to go up 2 games in the standings. This, too, shall pass.

 

By the way, did Harrelson give a "tip your caps" comment to Verlander? Does Dombrowski realize how crazy they are to keep throwing Verlander almost 130 pitches?

Edited July 24, 2009 by caulfield12

[southsideirish71]

2) The "bad" Contreras is back again....KW really should add another starter (5th) as insurance.

 

Are you for real. He was fine. He got hurt only when he dropped down 1 too many times. Outside of that he was fine. He ran out of gas at the end, and should of been out of the game. With Colon pitching tonight, you figure guillen wants to keep the pen use to a minimum.

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

They are trying. Verlander is an excellent pitcher. My only complaint is that they seemed to get active early in the count. Beating a tier 1 stuff guy like Verlander is about getting his ass back to the bench and out of the game as quickly as possible. Especially when he has a high pitch count earlier in the game. Outside of that hitting, 98 mph fastballs with 12/6 curveballs to back it up is sick. You can't expect them to center up and drive that type of stuff. We will have to live with the defensive plays right now as this team is what it is. Its frustrating, but won't be changed until this off season. I believe they will move Beckham to 2nd, who will be a fine defensive 2nd baseman. Hopefully they can pick up someone to play 3rd. And then maybe an OF and move Dye to DH. That should help clean up things a bit.

 

Yeah, I am calm now. Like you said just frustrated when you see the promise of some of the young kids but you can't fit a round Becks 2nd base peg into a square 3rd base hole. Don't work. Also for as much as Ozzie wants to say Ramirez is destined to be a great SS or Becks can do the job at 3rd maybe after this year they will relize not to move people out of position. Dunno. I really like Becks/Ramirez/Getz hitting together because they can be good catalysts but defensively they are challenged. Let's hope they address this in the off season.

[caulfield12]

Are you for real. He was fine. He got hurt only when he dropped down 1 too many times. Outside of that he was fine. He ran out of gas at the end, and should of been out of the game. With Colon pitching tonight, you figure guillen wants to keep the pen use to a minimum.

 

 

Maybe it would have been more accurate to say "we'll never see the dominant Contreras" or a 17 game winning streak again out of Jose. We can't expect that, simply because that 94-97 MPH fastball is gone and will never be back at this point in his career. Historically, Jose has been better against the Tigers than he pitched today. Some of his most dominant outings have come against them, both at home and on the road.

 

He's a 4th/5th starter now...maybe some of us were hoping he would have a much more extended run, where he put together a 10+ string of quality starts. All things considered, a 4.50-5.00 ERA out of Jose after the way he started is still a minor miracle. Maybe it's a little frustrating to see how well Vazquez and Aardsma are going, when a 4th/5th starter and RH bullpen arm are two huge issues for this team advancing.

 

Remember all those threads about trading him at his peak value? Well, that window has been lost...just like it has to an extent with any deal centered around Poreda/Richard.

Edited July 24, 2009 by caulfield12

[SoxFan562004]

Maybe it would have been more accurate to say "we'll never see the dominant Contreras" or a 17 game winning streak again out of Jose. We can't expect that, simply because that 94-97 MPH fastball is gone and will never be back at this point in his career. Historically, Jose has been better against the Tigers than he pitched today. Some of his most dominant outings have come against them, both at home and on the road.

 

He's a 4th/5th starter now...maybe some of us were hoping he would have a much more extended run, where he put together a 10+ string of quality starts. All things considered, a 4.50-5.00 ERA out of Jose after the way he started is still a minor miracle. Maybe it's a little frustrating to see how well Vazquez and Aardsma are going, when a 4th/5th starter and RH bullpen arm are two huge issues for this team advancing.

 

Remember all those threads about trading him at his peak value? Well, that window has been lost...just like it has to an extent with any deal centered around Poreda/Richard.

from the Richard end you mean? Because Poreda is very young and I highly doubt any scout has changed their opinion on him (good or bad) because he had a few shaky outings pitching out of the pen, one of them coming after a huge layoff due to the all star break.

[southsider2k5]

The Day After was a movie about a post nuclear attack in the US (IIRC), how sadly appropriate.

[caulfield12]

from the Richard end you mean? Because Poreda is very young and I highly doubt any scout has changed their opinion on him (good or bad) because he had a few shaky outings pitching out of the pen, one of them coming after a huge layoff due to the all star break.

 

 

I would say it's probably 60-70% Richard (he certainly reversed it a bit with his last outing, though)....30-40% disappointment with Poreda's fastball as well as overall stuff, vis a vis expectations.

[caulfield12]

I hate that pussie Verlander almost as much as that pussie Punto on the Twins. He's got all this bravado, I wish we kicked him in the dick today....oh well

 

 

More than Balfour?

 

Punto is playing his way out of the starting line-up there, I love Twins players with OPS numbers in Punto/D.Young/Casilla/Buscher/Tolbert territory. Please, keep playing him Gardenhire.

 

Brendan Harris is much more dangerous offensively...although I understand why Gardy prefers going defense first and expecting M&M Boys, Kubel, Cuddyer and Span to carry the load.

 

The Twins would be in much better shape if Gomez or Young played up to their potential.

[The Ginger Kid]

I would say it's probably 60-70% Richard (he certainly reversed it a bit with his last outing, though)....30-40% disappointment with Poreda's fastball as well as overall stuff, vis a vis expectations.

my theory on the ebb and flow of Clayton Richard, based on nothing more than speculation, is that his stamina is a question mark. He was hitting 96 on his strong starts, topping out at 91 in bad starts. Back in late May or early June he even mentioned he was experiencing some fatigue (further begging the question as to why he would start on 3 days rest).

[NorthSideSox72]

Maybe it would have been more accurate to say "we'll never see the dominant Contreras" or a 17 game winning streak again out of Jose. We can't expect that, simply because that 94-97 MPH fastball is gone and will never be back at this point in his career. Historically, Jose has been better against the Tigers than he pitched today. Some of his most dominant outings have come against them, both at home and on the road.

 

He's a 4th/5th starter now...maybe some of us were hoping he would have a much more extended run, where he put together a 10+ string of quality starts. All things considered, a 4.50-5.00 ERA out of Jose after the way he started is still a minor miracle. Maybe it's a little frustrating to see how well Vazquez and Aardsma are going, when a 4th/5th starter and RH bullpen arm are two huge issues for this team advancing.

 

Remember all those threads about trading him at his peak value? Well, that window has been lost...just like it has to an extent with any deal centered around Poreda/Richard.

You can't expect that, period, from any pitcher - it is a rare, rare thing. Jose is a 4th starter, and in that slot he's been darn good since his return. Jose did fine today.

 

[LittleHurt05]

Per Yahoo, lineup for game 2...good to see D-Wise is getting more playing time because of one catch

 

S-Pod cf

Alexei ss

Dye rf

Thome dh

PK 1b

Getz 2b

beckham 3b

Wise cf

Castro C

[BigSqwert]

Per Yahoo, lineup for game 2...good to see D-Wise is getting more playing time because of one catch

 

S-Pod cf

Alexei ss

Dye rf

Thome dh

PK 1b

Getz 2b

beckham 3b

Wise cf

Castro C

 

[chw42]

Why was Castro not catching Jose today?

[chw42]

Why are people saying Jose sucked today? He was good.

 

He threw 96 a couple of times and he had decent control of all of his pitches. Three of the four runs that were scored were because the Tigers blooped a hit somewhere.

 

Speaking of bloops, I hate Adam Everett and Placido Polanco with a passion.

Edited July 24, 2009 by chw42

[fathom]

Why was Castro not catching Jose today?

 

Pretty sure AJP's had good success vs Verlander in the past.

[WHarris1]

I f***in hate watching games in Comerica for some reason