chetkincaid Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Using Nunez or some other young guy from the minors might be cool. I'd like to see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) Bobby has struggled almost 75% of the time out there since 2007. He gives up a lot of leadoff hits and walks guys. In 2008, Bobby's WHIP was 1.10 and his ERA+ was 174. That doesn't sound like struggling to me. His WHIP over the past year and a half is also slightly lower than it was from 2005-2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 06:08 PM) There you go. Just proves the quality of that trade, huh. I think the Pena deal is a CCFH special. I'm going to withhold judgement on him until next April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxt Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 11:47 PM) Is the cost of acquiring Sherrill close to worth it? Wouldn't it be better, if we did pull Jenks, to at least give Thornton a shot at the job first? You'd hate to give away a big piece of our future offense in Tyler Flowers when this team could be knocked completely out of the race in the next 10 days of the season... Way too many holes on this team to mortgage the future. Apparently, Kenny didn;t think enough of this team to improve it in the off season...why improve it now when the cost would be astronomical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:07 PM) Bobby has struggled almost 75% of the time out there since 2007. He gives up a lot of leadoff hits and walks guys. He just hasn't blown the save as much until recently. ??????????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I would like to see Dotel get the closing job for awhile and work Bobby in innings 6 or 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 07:12 PM) I think the Pena deal is a CCFH special. I'm going to withhold judgement on him until next April. On the Score this morning they were talking about how the Tony Pena/Brandon Allen deal wasn't much more thAn a gesture of goodwill towards the DBacks to keep the relationship fresh between the two teams. They referenced the giving away of Tadahito Iguchi to the Phillies as a gesture Of goodwill to make up for our fleecing of the Phillies in the Gavin Floyd/Freddy Garcia trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) ??????????????????????? Whenever I've watched him over last 2 seasons, he never seems to be able to have a 1-2-3 inning. He's giving up leadoff hits or walks, then the runner advances to second on indifference, then he usually gets the next three guys. Like I said, he's only allowed the guys to score over the last few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:24 PM) On the Score this morning they were talking about how the Tony Pena/Brandon Allen deal wasn't much more thAn a gesture of goodwill towards the DBacks to keep the relationship fresh between the two teams. They referenced the giving away of Tadahito Iguchi to the Phillies as a gesture Of goodwill to make up for our fleecing of the Phillies in the Gavin Floyd/Freddy Garcia trade. Quentin was our gift for losing Chris Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I doubt very much if Ozzie will change things any. I like Bobby but he doesn't seem to be the pitcher he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:28 PM) Whenever I've watched him over last 2 seasons, he never seems to be able to have a 1-2-3 inning. He's giving up leadoff hits or walks, then the runner advances to second on indifference, then he usually gets the next three guys. Like I said, he's only allowed the guys to score over the last few weeks. Bobby's WHIP of 1.10 last year says it doesn't really matter. Saying that's "struggling" isn't even hyperbole, I'd have to make up another word for that. He's been struggling in the last few weeks, yes. But not that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:40 PM) Bobby has had 12 appearances this year going 1-2-3. Last year he had 19. Must not have been watching during those 12 appearances. Hm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Jenks has an era that NO closer has ANY business in having. Sentiment or not, this guy is trash at this point. A 4.33 era is laughable. It's amazing how baseball is....'establish yourself as a closer' and you can literally SUCK for weeks on end. No thought to changing roles to 'figure out what is wrong'...NO...in this sport, the worse you are matters not, if you're the closer we'll continue to give you the opportunity to fook up the team. I have ALWAYS hated this 'position'....always will. And 'closers' are mostly pitchers who aren't good enough to be starters anyway, so why worry about their damn egos. DEMOTE Him (at least for now until he figures out how to get outs)....OR aren't we TRYING to win an AL Central? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Of course, Nathan was a failed starter with SF, same as Foulke. Jenks, in the Angels' organization. Won't go through all the examples, except disagreeing with the fact that Jenks perhaps has too many pitches (like a starter) but not any one dominant pitch that's a go-to pitch the last couple of weeks out. At least not a pitch he can use with 100% confidence, consistency and command in the zone. The main reason Jenks can't start is stamina/conditioning and injury concerns. Perhaps the best example of a team riding it out with a "horrible" closer was Mr. Jones in DET last year. I do think they would have pulled him and tried Zumaya in that role, had he been healthy. And Rodney was very bad 2-3 seasons ago (always had the raw stuff, though) and now he's becoming very effective again in 08/09. In our division, you'd have to rank them Nathan/Soria/Rodney/Jenks and then Wood. That's five pretty good pitchers, at least Wood and Jenks were effective until this season, and 22/26 still at least LOOKS decent on paper, despite the 4.33 ERA. Edited July 26, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 07:44 PM) Jenks has an era that NO closer has ANY business in having. Sentiment or not, this guy is trash at this point. A 4.33 era is laughable. having a closer with an era going towards 5 is a disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 09:14 PM) having a closer with an era going towards 5 is a disgrace. Joe Borowski, Todd Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Jenks time on a short lease has come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 08:41 PM) Joe Borowski, Todd Jones i'm sure as hell not ready to lump Jenks into that group Jones is a great example of why saves are totally overrated. career 4 era as a closer? do not want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 07:00 PM) Thornton was 95-96. Rodney was 96-97. I thought it was probably hot. Thornton's fastball looked a bit flat, and I could tell you for sure some of those Jackson fastballs today were not 99. Detroit also usually has a bit of a hot gun anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Also, Jenks is performing poorly at the worst possible time. With each blown save, his value goes down, and if we fall out of it, we won't get good value if we decide to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 07:11 PM) Also, Jenks is performing poorly at the worst possible time. With each blown save, his value goes down, and if we fall out of it, we won't get good value if we decide to sell. I don't think that we're looking to sell within the next six days. If Jenks continues to suck for the next couple of games and then snaps out of it, his value will still likely be solid in December. Edited July 26, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Jenks will need to finish strong this year to have any value....and for the record, I haven't given up on him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I have ALWAYS hated this 'position'....always will. And 'closers' are mostly pitchers who aren't good enough to be starters anyway, so why worry about their damn egos. DEMOTE Him (at least for now until he figures out how to get outs)....OR aren't we TRYING to win an AL Central? Is it his stuff or like somebody said the fact he threw all fastballs? If it's his approach and not his stuff, keep him as closer, but give somebody else the job the next few save opps and heaven forbid if that guy blow the save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 10:13 PM) Is it his stuff or like somebody said the fact he threw all fastballs? If it's his approach and not his stuff, keep him as closer, but give somebody else the job the next few save opps and heaven forbid if that guy blow the save. probly bcuz he threw all fastballs. he struck out the 1st batter by throwing 2 fastballs then the hook got him out. with granderson, he had him 0-2 and the next pitch, he throws him a fastball in the zone when a breaking pitch gets him and the games over. "You know what? I'm not even mad about this one," said Jenks, who has dropped four saves in 26 opportunities this season. "I would go out there with that stuff tonight every day." Edited July 26, 2009 by Melissa1334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 07:08 PM) There you go. Just proves the quality of that trade, huh. That 4.1 IP sample size proves absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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