new rumor Cliff Lee to Rays, Morrow and Clement to Cle

[prochisox]

Numerous sources have confirmed that the Seattle Mariners are in intense discussions with the Tampa Bay Rays and the Cleveland Indians for a deal that would send Ray’s ace Scott Kazmir to Seattle.

 

From the looks of things, Seattle would acquire Kazmir and short stop prospect Reid Brignac from the Rays. The Rays would then receive 2008 Cy Young award pitcher Cliff Lee from the Indians and Seattle would send Brandon Morrow and Jeff Clement to Cleveland to complete the trade.

 

http://www.nextseasonsports.com/2009/07/ma...be-seattle.html

 

News broke today about a rumored three team swap brewing between the Cleveland Indians, Tampa Bay Rays, and Seattle Mariners.

 

The Mariners proceeded to get blasted 10-3, hardly a feat that leads to a blockbuster swap.

 

Now 7.5 games out it appears the deal is on hold unless Seattle can at least improve in both the division and wild card races. With the Blue Jays coming up they will have to likely take three of their next four games to convince management to pull the trigger.

 

Losing these last two were a huge blow no doubt, but they have a week to rebound, and it is not out the question that if they can take four of their next six games that it might push management towards "buying".

 

The swap had the principle players M's P Brandon Morrow, and C Jeff Clement, among others going to the Indians, Cleveland ace Cliff Lee, among others heading to Tampa Bay, and the Mariners snagging Tampa Bay ace Scott Kazmir, and INF Reed Brignac.

 

If the M's can gain some ground (making it comfortable to buy), and the Kazmir deal still has some smoldering coals about it, I say pull the trigger.

 

Morrow has plain and simple been a disaster, Clement has not been a No. 3 pick, and whatever throw in they put forward will likely be nothing more then a AA player.

 

Kazmir has been less then stellar this season with a 6.68 ERA, but so were David Aardsma, Russell Branyan, and Co. before they made Seattle a winning team amidst a clear Bavasi cleansing and rebuilding process.

 

Adding Kazmir would give the M's a rotation of King Felix, Bedard, Washburn, Kazmir, and Ryan Rowland Smith/Jason Vargas while giving up two players who are not positively contributing towards much of anything for the team.

 

Morrows ship has sunk and Clement has not made an impact at the MLB level yet.

 

The swap would still leave them ammunition to pursue a much needed upgrade at SS. With Gold Glove 3B Adrian Beltre coming back in two weeks if the Mariners can add a SS and Kazmir they would be geared for a playoff push.

 

If the M's should start winning before July 31st, you can bet more rumors like this are going to be popping up.

 

Lets hope they can rally the troops before the deadline, this next week is their most crucial so far this season.

 

http://www.seatownsports.net/2009/07/seatt...-talks-for.html

 

Big trade. Seems if Kazmir comes back to form, everybody wins in this trade.

[ThunderBolt]

This would be an absolute steal for the Mariners. Brignac and Kazmir? Wow. This would be an absolute steal for the Mariners. Brignac and Kazmir? Wow. The Rays stand to benefit too given their surplus of middle infielders and a nice pitching core forming in the minors, not seeing the attraction for the Indians. Morrow is a nice arm, but they have a surplus of catching prospects, with Clement failing to really add anything revolutionary to their system.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[SoxAce]

Makes sense for all three teams and I applaud the Rays in that division, on going for it again with Cliff Lee. Kazmir has had a nightmare season, though he is still young but is very wild. I love the deal for the Mariners of course, with Brignac mostly and Kaz for the future and I understand the move for the Indians as far as pure potential with Clement who I still like, and Morrow and that arm of his.

[DBAHO]

Seems like Seattle may be getting sick of waiting for Morrow to fulfil his potential, and are deciding to sell high on him.

 

And with Johjima catching, Clement's never going to get a chance of doing that full time for a while.

 

Briganc's stock has gone down since the start of last season, but he's still a nice spect, and Kazmir should pitch well in that ballpark.

 

What the Indians do with Clement I don't know, but maybe this makes Martinez available, or they move him to 1B permanently.

[Mr. Showtime]

Maybe this is related to that 3-team trade Cowley mentioned that Dotel thought he'd be in.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

There are three places this rumor could have come from:

1. MLB Trade Rumors posters

2. WSI

3. A butthole (probably residing in the Seattle area)

 

Have to call major bulls*** here. Why would Lee be enormously cheaper than Halladay? Why would Seattle be able to get Kazmir and Brignac for Clement and Morrow? Why would this deal be "on hold" if all three teams wanted to do it? Yeah, Cleveland is so set upon getting ripped off that they're hanging on to this offer in hopes of Seattle winning a couple more ballgames before the deadline. The "among others" part btw is way too vague. And why would Cleveland want Clement as a centerpiece when they have a logjam already at 1B/DH? Even if they deal VMart, they still have Shoppach. Morrow is more of a complimentary piece in a deal for an ace, not a centerpiece, like Poreda would be for us IMO. Just a ridiculous rumor.

 

So again, Sox are reportedly prepared to part with Gavin Floyd for an ace. Yanks could part with one of Hughes/Chamberlain for an ace. Angels are offering Jered Weaver for an ace. So now Cleveland sends out Lee for Morrow and Clement? Sure...

[Chisoxfn]

Ok It makes sense for all teams but Cleveland. The Mariners are getting a very good lefty starter and a top SS prospect. The Rays are getting a front of the rotation ace to go with Garza (since Kazmir hasn't been as good) and the Tribe gets a power arm in Morrow and a guy in Jeff Clement that isn't that good of a prospect (high pick out of USC, yes, but his value was as a catcher and I don't know if he's a good enough hitter to stick at 1B or be at least an above average 1st baseman.

 

This doesn't make sense.

[DBAHO]

Ok It makes sense for all teams but Cleveland. The Mariners are getting a very good lefty starter and a top SS prospect. The Rays are getting a front of the rotation ace to go with Garza (since Kazmir hasn't been as good) and the Tribe gets a power arm in Morrow and a guy in Jeff Clement that isn't that good of a prospect (high pick out of USC, yes, but his value was as a catcher and I don't know if he's a good enough hitter to stick at 1B or be at least an above average 1st baseman.

 

This doesn't make sense.

It only makes sense if Shapiro has another deal in place for trading Martinez for some top spects so they he can play both Clement and Shoppach behind the plate.

 

Otherwise I agree that it doesn't really make sense for the Tribe, but I'm sure White Sox fans wouldn't mind seeing this deal go down.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

In light of the packages Halladay is rumored to be worth, this deal would make a lot more sense IMO:

 

CLE trades: Cliff Lee

CLE gets: Wade Davis, Phillipe Aumont, Brandon Morrow, Reid Brignac

 

TB trades: Scott Kazmir, Wade Davis, Reid Brignac

TB gets: Cliff Lee, Jeff Clement

 

SEA trades: Phillippe Aumont, Brandon Morrow, Jeff Clement

SEA gets: Scott Kazmir

[iamshack]

There are three places this rumor could have come from:

1. MLB Trade Rumors posters

2. WSI

3. A butthole (probably residing in the Seattle area)

 

Have to call major bulls*** here. Why would Lee be enormously cheaper than Halladay? Why would Seattle be able to get Kazmir and Brignac for Clement and Morrow? Why would this deal be "on hold" if all three teams wanted to do it? Yeah, Cleveland is so set upon getting ripped off that they're hanging on to this offer in hopes of Seattle winning a couple more ballgames before the deadline. The "among others" part btw is way too vague. And why would Cleveland want Clement as a centerpiece when they have a logjam already at 1B/DH? Even if they deal VMart, they still have Shoppach. Morrow is more of a complimentary piece in a deal for an ace, not a centerpiece, like Poreda would be for us IMO. Just a ridiculous rumor.

 

So again, Sox are reportedly prepared to part with Gavin Floyd for an ace. Yanks could part with one of Hughes/Chamberlain for an ace. Angels are offering Jered Weaver for an ace. So now Cleveland sends out Lee for Morrow and Clement? Sure...

 

Agreed. Bulls***.

[witesoxfan]

Seriously, why would Tampa make that trade? Trade a guy that has struggled mainly with his command this year, along with one of their best prospects for Cliff Lee.

 

 

I just can't believe an organization like Tampa Bay would have given up on someone that quickly. He's been injured and struggled with his command. S***, he was one misplaced fastball away from losing to a perfect game 1-0. I do not believe the trade rumors surrounding Kazmir until I hear some type of legitimate, under contact talent going back to Tampa Bay as well.

 

Crazy thing is that I compared Floyd to Kazmir this year. Who's laughing now?

[BearSox]

This trade seems to only make sense for the Rays.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Seriously, why would Tampa make that trade? Trade a guy that has struggled mainly with his command this year, along with one of their best prospects for Cliff Lee.

 

 

I just can't believe an organization like Tampa Bay would have given up on someone that quickly. He's been injured and struggled with his command. S***, he was one misplaced fastball away from losing to a perfect game 1-0. I do not believe the trade rumors surrounding Kazmir until I hear some type of legitimate, under contact talent going back to Tampa Bay as well.

 

Crazy thing is that I compared Floyd to Kazmir this year. Who's laughing now?

I think normally they'd want to keep Kazmir, especially since he's signed through 2012 if they pick up the option, but I could also seem them going all out to stay in the race this year and have a shot at the playoffs again. Maybe they're afraid that if the Rays don't stay in it all year, everything they did last season will be for naught and they'll be back to the old Rays again as far as ticket sales and fan interest.

 

Also, if any of these reports are to be believed, a lot of teams are acting weird this year. Why would the Rays part with Kazmir, or the Angels Weaver or Saunders, or the Yankees Chamberlain, or maybe even us with Floyd, etc. for a guy under contract for a year and a half (in the case of both Halladay and Lee)? It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but whatever.

 

This rumor is definitely bulls***, but there have been reports that the Rays are willing to talk about Kazmir and they're looking for an ace. A completely different deal that nets them Lee while sending out Kazmir could still be a possibility.

[witesoxfan]

This trade seems to only make sense for the Rays.

 

even though they might quite easily be giving up the two best players in the trade? really?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

even though they might quite easily be giving up the two best players in the trade? really?

Lee is the best player in the deal, then Kazmir. Brignac is the best prospect in the deal. It's the Seattle part that is stupid, I mean you don't get an arm like Kazmir for Morrow and Clement. That's just retarded.

[witesoxfan]

Lee is the best player in the deal, then Kazmir. Brignac is the best prospect in the deal. It's the Seattle part that is stupid, I mean you don't get an arm like Kazmir for Morrow and Clement. That's just retarded.

 

consider me hungover, because I am seeing part of this as serious, then part as sarcastic. Maybe alcohol has rotted my brain.

[scenario]

This deal makes no sense for Cleveland.

 

They already have their catcher of the future in Carlos Santana. Why would they trade for Clement?

 

And since they're holding the ace card (Lee) and have other bigger needs than the players suggested will fill, it's unlikely to happen.

 

 

[BearSox]

Clement isn't a catcher anymore. He could play there in an emergency, but he'll be playing most likely either LF or 1B.

[scenario]

Clement isn't a catcher anymore. He could play there in an emergency, but he'll be playing most likely either LF or 1B.

 

Despite that fact that he has never played LF... ever... at any level?

 

And has a total of 23 career at-bats in the minors as a 1B?

 

He's played his entire career as a catcher/DH. He's played 191 games in the minors as a catcher, 68 games as a DH, and 6 games at all other positions combined.

 

Teams typically don't trade Cy Young award winning pitchers for 25 year old minor league DH's or guys who would have to learn a new position.

[witesoxfan]

Despite that fact that he has never played LF... ever... at any level?

 

And has a total of 23 career at-bats in the minors as a 1B?

 

He's played his entire career as a catcher/DH. He's played 191 games in the minors as a catcher, 68 games as a DH, and 6 games at all other positions combined.

 

Teams typically don't trade Cy Young award winning pitchers for 25 year old minor league DH's or guys who would have to learn a new position.

 

If they can put up a .900 OPS they might. I haven't seen Clement do that, other than one season in AAA, but I would move someone like that for a fantastic young hitter.

[scenario]

If they can put up a .900 OPS they might. I haven't seen Clement do that, other than one season in AAA, but I would move someone like that for a fantastic young hitter.

 

I've been a frequent visitor to a couple of Cleveland boards.

 

There is no mention of this rumor... and suffice it to say that the Tribe is looking for a MUCH bigger haul if they are going to move Lee.

 

 

[Kalapse]

I've been a frequent visitor to a couple of Cleveland boards.

 

There is no mention of this rumor... and suffice it to say that the Tribe is looking for a MUCH bigger haul if they are going to move Lee.

Just take a look at the source.

[chw42]

Cleveland is getting nothing in this deal. Morrow is a bullpen arm IMO. Clement hasn't shown much in his time up. I don't view Cliff Lee to be as valuable as either Halladay or Haren, not even close, but he should warrant more than those two guys.

 

I think there's something wrong with Kazmir health-wise. The Rays are selling really low on him and there might be a good reason too. With Lee, the Rays could definitely give the Yankees and Red Sox a run for their money.