Richard causing good problem

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Hard to believe Richard will be moved to the pen after 2 incredibly good starts. I'll believe it when I see it happen. But don't forget we have Garcia, too ,who did this in his 1st rehab start for Kanny courtesy of their website:

 

Garcia, a two-time American League All-Star, fired three shutout innings in his first official start with the White Sox organization in 2009. The 33-year-old right-hander did allow two hits and walk a batter, but he also induced two double plays and struck out three to keep the Braves off the board.

 

Garcia was limited to three innings as he builds his way back to the Bigs, but looked sharp in his brief stint. He seemed to focus primarily on his off-speed pitches, flashing both an effective slider and curveball.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I always liked this kid,Ozzie and KW are outta their minds to pick Colon over CR.

[SoxFan1]

FWIW, I was being totally facetious with the Wise picture. I was all for keeping BA and getting rid of Wise, but whatever. They both suck. And Wise hasn't cost us yet. He's done everything that you can ask for from a 4th OF. Good D as a late-inning replacement and giving some guys a rest with a spot-start.

[lostfan]

FWIW, I was being totally facetious with the Wise picture.

I know. Probably sounded like I was arguing, not really though.

[justBLAZE]

MDGonzalesSox haven't ruled out keeping Richard in the rotation, although that would be tough with Colon's return and F. Garcia possibly back in Aug.

[caulfield12]

This is not unlike the situation in 2005 with El Duque and Brandon McCarthy...until Hernandez broke down the Contreras and Brandon carried the team down the stretch with some huge starts.

[beck72]

There should be some movement, with a trade of some sort to clear things up. I wouldn't rule out a Colon trade, with the sox seeming to have guys for the 5th spot in this order: Richard; Torres; Poreda; and Freddy to take over for Colon.

 

Unless the sox are really concerned about the bullpen, it doesn't make a lot of sense to move Richard now. I'm not sure how many outs Colon has left in him. Overall, though, Richard in the pen would help them out a ton, as he could go 2 innings at a time no problem.

[TLAK]

Isn't Matt Thornton expected to miss a few days later this week to be with his wife for the birth of their baby? The White Sox won't want to face Minny or the Yankees with no LH in the bull pen. Despite his two fine outings I think you have to ask Clayton to put the team first and pitch out of the BP.

 

By early August the bottom of the rotation will have turned over a couple time, the trade deadline will have passed and I think things will have shaken themselves out. But for the present I think he's just plain needed more in the pen.

[Lillian]

Perhaps a pending trade is influencing the stated intentions for Colon and Richard. If the Sox were trying to swing a deal that involved Clayton Richard, wouldn't it make sense to say that he had earned a spot in the rotation? Maybe they are trying to move Colon and think that "keeping him in the rotation" enhances his value. It would probably take a lot more deception than that to create any value for Colon, but I can't think of any reason they would actually favor Colon over Richard.

[Dick Allen]

Before Richard make 2 good starts, he was 1 bad outing from being a Charlotte Knight. He's had some good starts before, Colon wasn't too bad against Detroit himself. The Sox need another lefty in the bullpen, and anyone who thinks Richard is going to continue to pitch 8 innings allowing 1 run each outing has no clue. Maybe the timing is bad, but it needs to be done. If Richard made 1 bad pitch and gave up a 3 run homer last night and therefore 4 runs, people wouldn't have much of a problem with the move. I just hope they don't puss out and decide to keep him in the rotation and then act shocked if he is sent to the showers in the 3rd inning next outing.

[BigSqwert]

Why would anyone think Colon has any trade value?

[BamaDoc]

Does anyone have stats on Clayton Richard the first time thru the lineup. That would give some idea of his relief ability. Our pen has been less than stellar of late.

[RudyLawRules]

Very dumb move. Richard just mowed down Detroit and has shown signs of being a good starter.

Colon is over the hill.

 

Colon ate the hill.

[Harry Chappas]

Worst case scenario Richard throws out of the pen and has both trade value and starting potential both for this year and next.

 

Colon will be on a short lesh.

 

Colon has trade value because there is a team that is relying on Russ Ortiz and Mike Hampton, another that uses Seth Mclung and finally a team running out Todd Wellemeyer. These teams are in the pennent race as much if not moreso than the Sox.

 

Starting pitching is at a premium and Colon has some sort of value to him.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Jenks Heat

[qwerty]

Does anyone have stats on Clayton Richard the first time thru the lineup. That would give some idea of his relief ability. Our pen has been less than stellar of late.

 

192 plate appearances, 164 at-bats, 23 runs, 46 hits given up, 9 doubles, 1 triple, 4 home runs, 24 walks, 32 strikeouts, so/bb of 1.33, .280 average, .374 obp, .421 slugging, .794 ops against.

 

Shockingly richard has been at his strongest the third time through the order, by a good deal too.

[lostfan]

Does anyone have stats on Clayton Richard the first time thru the lineup. That would give some idea of his relief ability. Our pen has been less than stellar of late.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...9&t=p#times

 

It's not that great this year. Last year he'd be really good the first time thru and then just get torched as the game went on. This year he's kind of meh all around, although batters on the 3rd PA seem to struggle, probably because if he makes it that far it means he's been cruising that game.

[Dick Allen]

192 plate appearances, 164 at-bats, 23 runs, 46 hits given up, 9 doubles, 1 triple, 4 home runs, 24 walks, 32 strikeouts, so/bb of 1.33, .280 average, .374 obp, .421 slugging, .794 ops against.

 

Shockingly richard has been at his strongest the third time through the order, by a good deal too.

That's because the only way he ever gets to the 3rd time through the order, he's pitching a good game. When he's getting lit up, or walking everyone in sight, by the time they come up for the 3rd time, Carrasco is facing them.

 

I don't necessarily think how he does the first time through is an indication how he would be as a reliever. He obviously would have a different mindset, and he might face more LH hitters.

 

As bad as everyone thinks Colon is, and as great as Richard supposedly now is, although a week or so ago Poreda was a prospect and Richard was garbage, Colon still has a lower ERA and WHIP than Richard this season.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Dick Allen

[DBAHO]

Keep going with hot hand.

 

Until Richard forces your hand, you keep him in the rotation.

 

Lefties with his velocity don't grow on trees, and today's outing showed that he can certainly strike out hitters with the high fastball.

 

But it's certainly nice to have options, because you can never have too much pitching.

[lostfan]

That's because the only way he ever gets to the 3rd time through the order, he's pitching a good game. When he's getting lit up, or walking everyone in sight, by the time they come up for the 3rd time, Carrasco is facing them.

 

I don't necessarily think how he does the first time through is an indication how he would be as a reliever. He obviously would have a different mindset, and he might face more LH hitters.

 

As bad as everyone thinks Colon is, and as great as Richard supposedly now is, although a week or so ago Poreda was a prospect and Richard was garbage, Colon still has a lower ERA and WHIP than Richard this season.

My beef with Poreda was the fact that he wasn't playing at all while Colon was sucking it up. The only thing having Poreda on the roster accomplished was retarding his development. He either needed to be getting innings in the majors or starting in AAA, just pick one, the option they had been going with was kinda dumb.

[beck72]

Perhaps a pending trade is influencing the stated intentions for Colon and Richard. If the Sox were trying to swing a deal that involved Clayton Richard, wouldn't it make sense to say that he had earned a spot in the rotation? Maybe they are trying to move Colon and think that "keeping him in the rotation" enhances his value. It would probably take a lot more deception than that to create any value for Colon, but I can't think of any reason they would actually favor Colon over Richard.

Welcome to sox talk!

 

The only reason I could see having Clayton move is to help the bullpen which is struggling now. Going forward, I can't see why the sox are still holding onto Colon. Carlos Torres has better stuff than Bartolo and could move in now. And the sox still have Poreda and Freddy both getting stretched out to start.

[Balta1701]

Why would anyone think Colon has any trade value?

Because there are teams in the pennant race in the NL especially who would find Colon to be a non-trivial upgrade. The Cardinals, the Brewers, possibly the Phillies if they don't land Halladay, could all benefit from a back of the rotation starter upgrade.

 

You're not getting a star player for him, but teams won't resist giving up a "Michael Dubee" caliber guy for him...someone who is in the lower levels who may someday develop in to something useful.

[Jeremy]

Does anyone have stats on Clayton Richard the first time thru the lineup. That would give some idea of his relief ability. Our pen has been less than stellar of late.

 

Problem is that how well Richard pitches out of the pen is only half the equation. He won't be valuable as a reliever unless Ozzie also uses him in high leverage situations. With the "depth" we have in the pen right now, I'd be surprised if he's used as more than a long reliever, a mop up man, and/or a situational lefty in situations where we don't want to use Thorton. It's hard to have too much valuable in such a minimal role, no matter how well you pitch.

[chisoxfan09]

Yeah. Let's put in our fat-ass starter who only throws fastballs as our 5th starter over a 25-year-old who is now pitching some of his best ball all year. I can't imagine they would have a long leash for Bartolo though with how well Clayton has performed his last two starts.

 

Maggs, this is Ozzie's boneheaded view just like putting or sticking with Wise in Cf over BA. No sense or logic can be beat into his brick head when he thinks he is right even when all the evidence flatly supports the counter argument.

 

[Baines3]

Keep Richard in the starting rotation. He is pitching great lately.

[ObamaKnowsBest]

I think in this case you have to look at the worst case scenario. If Colon has one or two games, I'm pretty sure Richard will get put right back in the rotation. Is it going to hurt a young kid like Richard to save himself from more innings now, when he has a future ahead of him. Cooper said that if he doesn't become a mainstay in the rotation in the future, the Sox orginization will have failed him.

 

I would rather see what Colon has right now and pull him after a few starts then have Richard get worn out for the end of the year when come playoff time (if this happens) we want him in the pen.

 

To me if Colon sucks, then we can fall back on Richard. But if Richard sucks, can we fall back on Colon? Not sure if this is the right move, but I think it is safer when taking in consideration the present and the future.