SI1020 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 If the Pirates can't make expenses, maybe they are a candidate for contraction, new stadium and all. I'm sure they are trying to trade Kendall. Big contract. Re Giles, I would rather have given those three prime prospect to Pittsburgh for Giles than to the Rangers for Everett. Maybe we can get Kip back. i don't know about kip, as much as i like him, he may take a spot for one our prospect coming up. you make one trade and not lose too much prospect, then you have a surplus for another poss trade. how do you think this will affect the clubhouse? Only heard great things about Giles and I've never heard anything bad about Kendall. Was supposed to be a good guy and a hard worker. SI is the resident Pirate expert, so we'll see what he thinks. Pirates won't give up Kip, he's cheap for the time being. Thanks Jason for reading and considering what I post here. I'm shocked about what's happening in Pittsburgh. It looks like they are voluntarily "contracting" themselves. Owner Kevin McClatchy recently told Pittsburgh Post-Gazette columnist Ron Cook that there would be big changes coming because the team was awash in a sea of red ink. He wasn't kidding. Like I posted previously, in Ramirez the cubs could have a fixture at 3b for the next 10-12 years or they could have a chronic problem child. Ramirez can hit, there is no question about that. Until this year he had a weight problem a la Colon, but he dropped 15-20 lbs in the off season and seems to have kept it off. He is very moody and temperental, he sulks when he is in a slump, and when he gets booed. Philadelphia has the reputation, but Pittsburgh can be a very tough sports crowd. If people think you're not hustling, they cut you no slack. Ramirez got booed a lot in Pittsburgh. Ramirez is a defensive liability and prone to base running blunders. Despite all this, if the cubs can instill a little discipline in this young ball player they could have a very strong presence in the lineup for a long time. The Pirates and manager McClendon coddled Ramirez . The fact that they gave up on him speaks volumes. This franchise is in deep trouble. Steeler training camp is about to start. Watch attendance figures really nosedive now. As for Kendall, he's purely a singles hitter. He calls a great game, handles pitchers well, but has trouble throwing out your grandma. He came back from a horrific injury to his ankle. Remember what happened to Robin Ventura a few years back? Kendalls injury was worse IMO. When it happened I thought he would do well to walk again let alone catch in the National League. He does shy away from contact at the plate now. He has above average speed for a catcher, even now. I'd love to have Giles. A couple of years back, he listed 6 or 8 teams he'd be willing to play for and the Sox were not on the list. Maybe with what is going on now, he'd give the Sox a shot. Sox fans, I guarantee you'd love Brian Giles. I think he's be a great fit for our team and the fans would really take to him. He can hit, his D is very underrated. He is much better suited to LF. He'd make Thomas and Maggs even more formidable. Giles made a catch in LF earlier this year that is one of the most exciting I've seen in 46 years of watching baseball. Again, I'm shocked. Baseball is an endangered species in Pittsburgh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Guys, Gammons said that we could get those 2 guys(Giles and Kendell) for average prospects. So to me that sounds like Lee, Rauch, and a guy like Rivera. Maybe Borchard but i doubt they would want to take on his payrole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I'm hearing that Kendall and Giles want to go to the West Coast. Kendall is from the San Diego area IIRC, and Giles is from El Cajon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Ramirez carries a hefty salary and he is already washed up at the age of 24. He took his big money contract and ran. He will be a big flop. :dips*** That has to be the dumbest statement I've seen in awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Guys, Gammons said that we could get those 2 guys(Giles and Kendell) for average prospects. So to me that sounds like Lee, Rauch, and a guy like Rivera. Maybe Borchard but i doubt they would want to take on his payrole. Borchard isn't that expensive right now. His big expense was his $5.3 mil signing bonus, and that has long since been paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 What about this.. Pirates Get: Jeremy Reed, Kris Honel, Neal Cotts, Joe Borchard, and Jon Rauch Sox Get: Kris Benson, Brian Giles, Jason Kendall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The SOX are certainly in a prestigious time in the history of the modern franchise here. There is buzz about the team & the Cell after a pretty terrific all-around ALL-STAR game experience. Many commentators called it the best in years. So to suggest that a team with 120MIL in rev/yr can't take on some salary to increase it's win potential is kind of ridiculous. What's been proven time & again with the SOX is a winning team COUPLED with SOME MARQUEE players draws a BIG crowd. I don't know how much Pitts would be willing to take on in salary to move these guys. The red ink comes from a very expensive new stadium, a spending spree a few yrs ago, & a losing team that is not drawing the fans. The tax payers picked up some of that cost & I think the lease is very long so I don't see the Bucks being contracted any time soon. I imagine it would cost MLB more to buy out the lease than to Expo-size the Bucks. I think the big question on Kendall is how good of a catcher he is. Hitting 308 is a definitely upgrade over anything we have (incl the system). But if Kendall is anything like I-ROD prime in terms of D & calling a game, then it might be worth picking up an avg of 7mil a yr in salary to get Giles. Giles is a MARQUEE player at a small market price. You jump on any chance to get him. And since Maggs is due 15mil next yr, you essentially get a Giles & Kendall for Maggs in terms of salary. Unless the SOX advance to the ALCS, I don't see Maggs here next yr at that price. Likewise, assuming Konerko rebounds in this 1/2 if they have Giles & Kendall for that same time, there is no reason to keep Koney at that price. So I think $$$ wise the SOX can make moves to fit both w/out taking on major payroll in the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Christ, I'd pillage our farm system for Kendall and Giles. Kendall is a very solid catcher, and I love how he hits at the plate. Giles is probably the most underrated player in all of MLB. Guy has great power, amazing plate discipline, and isn't a lawn gnome in LF. The problem with the Sox' situation is we already have 5 outfielders. I'd try to unload C Lee for anything, and then sending either Rowand or Harris along with a bevy of other prospects for Kendall and Giles. If you have an outfield of Giles, Everett, Ordonez you wo.....wait lemme sit down because I almost fainted. It won't happen IMO, but one can dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Christ, I'd pillage our farm system for Kendall and Giles. Kendall is a very solid catcher, and I love how he hits at the plate. Giles is probably the most underrated player in all of MLB. Guy has great power, amazing plate discipline, and isn't a lawn gnome in LF. The problem with the Sox' situation is we already have 5 outfielders. I'd try to unload C Lee for anything, and then sending either Rowand or Harris along with a bevy of other prospects for Kendall and Giles. If you have an outfield of Giles, Everett, Ordonez you wo.....wait lemme sit down because I almost fainted. It won't happen IMO, but one can dream. I'd cream my pants...thats all i could say. Could you imagine this lineup Alomar Kendall Thomas Maggs Giles Konerko Everett Crede Jose Next year (Lets say the Sox lose Everett) Alomar Kendall (LF) Thomas Maggs Giles Konerko Jose (I'm guessing they resign him for less money) Crede Olivo If they also lose Aloamr then you have Harris at 2nd or can make a signing of some sort. Plus you have Reed and Borchard close to being ready in the outfield (I love Reed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I'm hearing that Kendall and Giles want to go to the West Coast. Kendall is from the San Diego area IIRC, and Giles is from El Cajon. San Diego is probably the front runner in this sweepstakes cause they can add the payroll of those two. If the Pads make this deal, then it means someone in that outfield is gone. Possibly both Klesko and Nevin or Kotsay and I know they have all said they want to stay with the Pads and be part of the rebuilding and move into the new stadium. If the Pads acquired those two, they may just spend the money on someone like Alomar to go along side Khalil Greene temporarily until their 2nd base prospect develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Is there any piece of truth in this rumours about we getting Giles and Kendal or you guys are just dreaming??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Is there any piece of truth in this rumours about we getting Giles and Kendal or you guys are just dreaming??? The truth is those two are available and that the Sox have had interest in Giles in the past. Everything else is speculation and hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The PTBNL in this deal is from a list of four, kind of like what Texas got. Hendry would not speak as to names but I would think they are top flight (Cruz, Guzman, Kelton,etc.) They have time to choose and with Guzman being injured this may be what they are waiting for. There may also be a clause as to how Loften and Ramirez perform. Pit will not take Lee has he is going to arbitration. They will also not pay any salary. Hendry stated the cub are on the hook for the full amount of this deal. The Sox best bet would be to give Borchard and Rauch for these two and then try to deal Kendall and take on some of his salary. Remember Ordonez can be a Free agent after next season. The Sox biggest problem is they have a-lot to offer (Olivo, Crede, Reed, Borchard, ) tha others do not. The cub have a nice hype (not farm) system but do you think any team really wants David Kelton? See Hee Sop Choi, Bobby Hill, and Juan Cruz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 If just Giles come to the Sox it would be awesome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The PTBNL in this deal is from a list of four, kind of like what Texas got. Hendry would not speak as to names but I would think they are top flight (Cruz, Guzman, Kelton,etc.) They have time to choose and with Guzman being injured this may be what they are waiting for. There may also be a clause as to how Loften and Ramirez perform. Pit will not take Lee has he is going to arbitration. They will also not pay any salary. Hendry stated the cub are on the hook for the full amount of this deal. The Sox best bet would be to give Borchard and Rauch for these two and then try to deal Kendall and take on some of his salary. Remember Ordonez can be a Free agent after next season. The Sox biggest problem is they have a-lot to offer (Olivo, Crede, Reed, Borchard, ) tha others do not. The cub have a nice hype (not farm) system but do you think any team really wants David Kelton? See Hee Sop Choi, Bobby Hill, and Juan Cruz. I'd take David Kelton. He's gonna be a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 What about this.. Pirates Get: Jeremy Reed, Kris Honel, Neal Cotts, Joe Borchard, and Jon Rauch Sox Get: Kris Benson, Brian Giles, Jason Kendall Why do you want Benson? He's going on the DL with a bad shoulder,. They can't give Kendall away, he makes too much, and is owed too much. That proposal is a steep price to pay for Giles and the financial burden of the others. No way to that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 What about this.. Pirates Get: Jeremy Reed, Kris Honel, Neal Cotts, Joe Borchard, and Jon Rauch Sox Get: Kris Benson, Brian Giles, Jason Kendall Why do you want Benson? He's going on the DL with a bad shoulder,. They can't give Kendall away, he makes too much, and is owed too much. That proposal is a steep price to pay for Giles and the financial burden of the others. No way to that trade. The green in that offer stands for sarcasm. And your right, no way would I touch Kris Benson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 What about this.. Pirates Get: Jeremy Reed, Kris Honel, Neal Cotts, Joe Borchard, and Jon Rauch Sox Get: Kris Benson, Brian Giles, Jason Kendall Why do you want Benson? He's going on the DL with a bad shoulder,. They can't give Kendall away, he makes too much, and is owed too much. That proposal is a steep price to pay for Giles and the financial burden of the others. No way to that trade. I would send Joe B and Jon Rauch for Giles and Kendall in a hurry.... Giles is waht we need, a great LH hitter that has a big OBP and hits HRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I'd take David Kelton. He's gonna be a good player. If he can learn to play the outfield he may be good but I go back to the cub running Grace out of town three years ago and Choi still not getting playing time there. They hype guys in this town like theya re all the next Ryne Sandberg, Juan Cruz was the best case of this. No maybe Kyle Farnsworth or Kevin Foster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Christ, I'd pillage our farm system for Kendall and Giles. So would I. Cotts, Borchard, Lee, whatever it takes. I mean, two great proven players for Borchard, who I think will never turn out to be what we expected, and Lee, who swings for the fences everytime? This will make the fans come out in droves and tell the whole world that we're serious about winning this year. I wouldnt mind getting Suppan either. That lineup and rotation would be amazing. But this is most likely a pipedream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I can very easily see Pittsburg taking Carlos in a deal for Giles and Kendall. Then they could very easily trade Lee to a team looking for a good bat (LA?) for a couple of decent prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Your DUMB if you would trade Cotts, Borchard, and Rauch for Giles and Kendall... Giles may be a good LF but hes like 33.. thats too old to give up Cotts, Borchard, AND Rauch... No Cotts and I like the deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Your DUMB if you would trade Cotts, Borchard, and Rauch for Giles and Kendall... Giles may be a good LF but hes like 33.. thats too old to give up Cotts, Borchard, AND Rauch... No Cotts and I like the deal can you post anything without ever insulting anybody. from now on, i will stop responding to you and i hope everyone else would do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 If we trade for Giles and Kendall, no way Cotts should be trade, Rauch and Borchard can go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 can you post anything without ever insulting anybody. from now on, i will stop responding to you and i hope everyone else would do the same. That is probably a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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