LDF Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I was just talking to Mario and he mentioned that the Pirates are willing to unload Giles for not too much if a team is willing to take on Jason Kendall. Think, the Sox could take on Kendall and send Olivo to AAA. The key is the Sox get Giles to play center and wouldn't have to give up much. I'm sure the Pirates would have to pay a lot of the salaries though, but taking on Kendall means they could do it for less. Kendall is hitting .308 and could definately hit in the 2 hole. He has a .386 OBP Acquiring those two would give the Sox all the bats they need. And the rotatoin is there, although acquiring Ponson or an additional reliever would be great. The best part about this deal is its a long term thing. I'd freaking hug JR if he were willing to add the payroll. kendall is trade bait or so is olvio, if we do this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASHWOUND Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I was just talking to Mario and he mentioned that the Pirates are willing to unload Giles for not too much if a team is willing to take on Jason Kendall. Think, the Sox could take on Kendall and send Olivo to AAA. The key is the Sox get Giles to play center and wouldn't have to give up much. I'm sure the Pirates would have to pay a lot of the salaries though, but taking on Kendall means they could do it for less. Kendall is hitting .308 and could definately hit in the 2 hole. He has a .386 OBP Acquiring those two would give the Sox all the bats they need. And the rotatoin is there, although acquiring Ponson or an additional reliever would be great. The best part about this deal is its a long term thing. I'd freaking hug JR if he were willing to add the payroll. You think Reiny is gonna take on all that money??? Mr. Cheap ass himself? Kendal has a 4 year 40 million dollar contract, plus Giles's contract...I guess i wouldn't mind sending down olivio..although I love his defense and cannon arm, i wouldn't b**** and whine about it.. Well, lets call up Kenny and propose this to him..anyone here got his number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Well, I think we know the deal I'd pull of if I were GM. The key is convincing JR to add payroll. I'd find some really hot twins for him and see if that makes him more lose with the pockets. Come on Kenny, be on the same wavelength as me. Kendall and Giles for Lee and Rauch and a PTBNL. Pirates pay most of Kendalls salary, Sox take on Giles entire salary. New Lineup Alomar (S) Kendall ® Thomas ® Ordonez ® Giles (L) Konerko ® Everett (S) Crede ® Jose (S) Bench Graffy ® Daubbie (L) Harris (L) Rowand ® Alomar ® Minors Olivo Damn I'm drooling over this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 If the Pirates can't make expenses, maybe they are a candidate for contraction, new stadium and all. I'm sure they are trying to trade Kendall. Big contract. Re Giles, I would rather have given those three prime prospect to Pittsburgh for Giles than to the Rangers for Everett. Maybe we can get Kip back. i don't know about kip, as much as i like him, he may take a spot for one our prospect coming up. you make one trade and not lose too much prospect, then you have a surplus for another poss trade. how do you think this will affect the clubhouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Bruback has been with Iowa all season. Decent stats. 6-8, ERA just under 4, 125 innings, 120 hits, 90 K's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 This is all assuming that the Pirates pay Lee's salary and the Sox pay all of Giles and Suppan's salary. I'd do the trade even if Suppan wasn't a part of it. But KW better not make the deal if its only Suppan The whole reason why the Pirates team is available is because they are losing money. Don't look for Pittsburgh to deal anyone they'd have to pay the salary of anyway. I think that they will have to pay salary for Kendall, at least to the point where the Sox pay Kendall like 4-5 mill a year. Still, thats a good deal for what he can do and the Pirates are happy cause you take on a ton of salary and give them Lee who they can either keep long term or move to someone like the Dodgers for more prospects. Rauch is a solid pitching prospect who is ready for the show. If they ask for anyone else give them Yan back, but don't give them anymore pitching unless its a marginal guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 You think Reiny is gonna take on all that money??? Mr. Cheap ass himself? You summed it all right up there GASH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASHWOUND Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Thinking about this for about 3 seconds..all of this gitty anticipation of the possibility of getting giles is all f***in moot anyway...I know Kenny pulled off some moves that we didn't expect, but you think he has the balls to go after Giles hard? I just don't see it happening..espially having to take kendal's contract...very unlikely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 If the Pirates can't make expenses, maybe they are a candidate for contraction, new stadium and all. I'm sure they are trying to trade Kendall. Big contract. Re Giles, I would rather have given those three prime prospect to Pittsburgh for Giles than to the Rangers for Everett. Maybe we can get Kip back. i don't know about kip, as much as i like him, he may take a spot for one our prospect coming up. you make one trade and not lose too much prospect, then you have a surplus for another poss trade. how do you think this will affect the clubhouse? Only heard great things about Giles and I've never heard anything bad about Kendall. Was supposed to be a good guy and a hard worker. SI is the resident Pirate expert, so we'll see what he thinks. Pirates won't give up Kip, he's cheap for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Thinking about this for about 3 seconds..all of this gitty anticipation of the possibility of getting giles is all f***in moot anyway...I know Kenny pulled off some moves that we didn't expect, but you think he has the balls to go after Giles hard? I just don't see it happening..espially having to take kendal's contract...very unlikely Do whatever it takes to get JR to sign off on this deal. I mean anything. KW - get hire a marketing guy (a real one) to tell him all the money he'd make if he made this deal and the Sox won the series. Can you say sold out US Cellular for the next few years. Look what the series did for the Angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Kendall and Giles for Lee and Rauch and a PTBNL. Pirates pay most of Kendalls salary, Sox take on Giles entire salary. No way the Pirates make that deal. Rauch, Harris, Bullpen pitching prospect (maybe Dan Wright), and a top 5 prospect. For Kendall and Giles, I'd make that deal. EDIT: I'm assuming they won't want Carlos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 I think that they will have to pay salary for Kendall, at least to the point where the Sox pay Kendall like 4-5 mill a year. That's about half his salary and I agree with you Jason. If we had an Owner committed to "winning the WS this year", getting in on the Giles/Kendall sweepstakes would be an opportunity a team truly "committed to winning" would be all over. But our Owner is Reinsdorf and any talk of "winning it all" is purely lipservice and, IMHO, Everett and R Alomar are another version of a more subtle White Flag than any true desire to get to the postseason and be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Kendall and Giles for Lee and Rauch and a PTBNL. Pirates pay most of Kendalls salary, Sox take on Giles entire salary. No way the Pirates make that deal. Rauch, Harris, Bullpen pitching prospect (maybe Dan Wright), and a top 5 prospect. For Kendall and Giles, I'd make that deal. EDIT: I'm assuming they won't want Carlos. I'd still make that deal. Then the Sox unload Lee for a reliever or starter (if they can get Ponson great). I think the Pirates would take Lee though. Still young and productive. He can semi fill in for Giles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 That's about half his salary and I agree with you Jason. If we had an Owner committed to "winning the WS this year", getting in on the Giles/Kendall sweepstakes would be an opportunity a team truly "committed to winning" would be all over. But our Owner is Reinsdorf and any talk of "winning it all" is purely lipservice and, IMHO, Everett and R Alomar are another version of a more subtle White Flag than any true desire to get to the postseason and be successful. Well if anyone thinks their is any truth to it, maybe Reinsdorf is on his way out as owner and Einhorn is really taking over (I know Michelle and Steff mentioned Einhorn being more involved) maybe he'll really get more involved. All I'm saying is they add 10 million this year, but lose Lee's 4.5 or so making it only a 5.5 mill addition and could easily make that back in playoff games (Or I'm assuming they could). Plus think of all the extra season tickets that get sold. If the Sox go deep and show commitment to winning, I could see a season ticket base of 30,000 or so, which ensures avg attendance around 35,000. THINK OF THAT ONE JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Kendall and Giles for Lee and Rauch and a PTBNL. Pirates pay most of Kendalls salary, Sox take on Giles entire salary. No way the Pirates make that deal. At this point, Pittsburgh is just looking to unload. You might be surprised. The sCrUBS got Ramirez and Lofton for NOTHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I think the Pirates would ask for Borchard and Rauch (just to start), they would only be willing to trade if the Sox's would take on all of Kendall 's salary (or at least most of it, 70-80%). Plus they would want at least one more pitching prospect and an infield prospect (Harris). Aarond Rowand would probably be involved also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I think the Pirates would ask for Borchard and Rauch (just to start), they would only be willing to trade if the Sox's would take on all of Kendall 's salary (or at least most of it, 70-80%). Plus they would want at least one more pitching prospect and an infield prospect (Harris). Aarond Rowand would probably be involved also. i think your are right about borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I think the Pirates would ask for Borchard and Rauch (just to start), they would only be willing to trade if the Sox's would take on all of Kendall 's salary (or at least most of it, 70-80%). Plus they would want at least one more pitching prospect and an infield prospect (Harris). Aarond Rowand would probably be involved also. Sox would be more then willing to do that, imo. Heck, if they asked for Borchard I think they may get surprised and get a YES answer at this point in time, although I don't really see him getting dealt. I think the Pirates would pay half of Kendalls salary or right around that (25 mill). Sox take on the other half over 4 yrs while they save the Pirates like another 20 some odd million in Giles contract (Not sure what he's owed, but I think its like 2 or 3 more years) and they get a good outfielder and a pitcher and if they want one more guy, fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 If they unload Kendall, they would ask for Olivo. He would be perfect for them. Plus, Kendall has a history of injuries. Either back or knee. There has been talk about him not being able to catch full time before long. KW has to get his nose in there to see if he can pull it off. They would like Lee, because they can dump him next year. In fact, they might like Everett even better, because he is free for the rest of the year. This Kendall talk brings me back to something I have ranted on in other threads. That is, why do these GM's give such exhorbitant salaries to players like Kendall? $10 MM ++ per year? I don't get it. Giles is much more reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Ok Think of next year. Giles and Kendall are signed long term. Lee and Everett aren't. Kendall moves to LF next season (If they are paying him 4-5 mill a year its doable; plus he's a great athlete). Then the Sox keep the outfield going next year and move Olivo back into the rotation. They get picks for Everett (hopefully), even if they dont' its no biggie. Then if you get Ponson. Sox can let Colon walk (or sign him to a deal if he's willing to sign for 6 mill or so; If Sox win the series, I could see them resigning a lot of the players). They reup with Ponson and still have Loaiza, Buehrle, Ponson, and Garland and if they keep Colon they have him. Pen stays the same with a couple vets or whatever. Team is able to stay built for the next year. Sox can do this a few years and keep moving things around to get younger in certain areas and continue to win, while guys like Reed, Honel, etc replace others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 If i'm KW i put his deal on the table (assuming JR approves it): Sox give: Borchard Rauch Harris Low lever PTBNL (nobody big, maybe even two of them) Then give them a choice between: 1. Carlos Lee 2. Rowand and Wright 3. Miguel Oivio 4. Paul Konarko (gotta dump salary if we make this trade) If Carlos Lee or PK don't get traded go out and trade one of them (for a good bullpen guy) Pirates give: Kris Benson, they pay 90% of his contract this season, and 3 mil next season out of 6.1 Mil. Sox's can afford 3 mil for this guy. (replaces Colon next season) Jason Kendall, they pay 100% this season, then: 2004: $8.0M (they pay 4 mil), 2005: $10.0M (they pay 4 il), 2006: $11.0M (they pay 4mil), 2007: $13.0M (they pay 6 mil) Brian Giles, he's do 28.8 mil through '04-'06. Sox's take on all his salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I read on CBSsportsline.com that the Padres were close on trading for Giles and Kendall. The Pirates really wants to unload them. Hope the Sox can make a trade for them. It also stated that the Sox are inquiring about Ponson. I think he will definitely give us more wins as our #5 starter and help the Sox to get to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I'm just glad we don't have Lofton. Yuk. agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Duh!!! no why would the Sox give up cheap Olivo who is promisng for Kendall??? Please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I read on CBSsportsline.com that the Padres were close on trading for Giles and Kendall. The Pirates really wants to unload them. Hope the Sox can make a trade for them. It also stated that the Sox are inquiring about Ponson. I think he will definitely give us more wins as our #5 starter and help the Sox to get to the playoffs. The Orioles want CXrede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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