Greg Hibbard Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I know we don't want to throw too much at the rookie, but he seems much better suited to the 2-hole than Lexi, who has had a lot of trouble taking pitches at times. Beckham is more versatile and can draw the walk. beckham walks every 9 pas, ramirez every 13 pas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) I know we don't want to throw too much at the rookie, but he seems much better suited to the 2-hole than Lexi, who has had a lot of trouble taking pitches at times. Beckham is more versatile and can draw the walk. beckham walks every 9 pas, ramirez every 13 pas. Honestly, I'd rather put A.J. in the two-hole. He's hitting well this year, and did pretty well hitting second last season. Beckham would be forced to change his approach at the plate if he were moved up to 2nd (taking more pitches, fouling off more balls). I'd rather keep him in the bottom third of the lineup for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 AJ seemingly swings at more first pitches than anyone else in our lineup. I always thought for that reason he was a terrible choice for a 2 hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) Beckham would be forced to change his approach at the plate if he were moved up to 2nd (taking more pitches, fouling off more balls). I'd rather keep him in the bottom third of the lineup for now. What!?!? He wouldn't have to change A THING. He's PERFECT for the 2 hole right now. He's been seeing tons of pitches and hitting the ball with authority anyway. You don't have to hit foul balls to be a good 2 hitter. AJ certainly doesn't see many pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmywins1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Because the 2 hole hitter gets a ton of fastballs, and that's all Alexei Ramirez can hit. Why do you think he's done so well there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:29 PM) What!?!? He wouldn't have to change A THING. He's PERFECT for the 2 hole right now. He's been seeing tons of pitches and hitting the ball with authority anyway. You don't have to hit foul balls to be a good 2 hitter. AJ certainly doesn't see many pitches. You're correct that A.J. doesn't take nearly as many pitches as a #2 hitter should. That said, the fact that he's hitting .300 (with a respectable .330 OBP) makes up for it. Beckham has already had to learn one new position this year, and is hitting .290 with some power down at the bottom of the lineup. I agree that he's EVENTUALLY probably going to hit in the two-hole, but why screw with him when he's finally producing offensively? Let the kid develop. Remember that he went something like 0-13 when he was first brought up. We don't want a repeat of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) Honestly, I'd rather put A.J. in the two-hole. He's hitting well this year, and did pretty well hitting second last season. Beckham would be forced to change his approach at the plate if he were moved up to 2nd (taking more pitches, fouling off more balls). I'd rather keep him in the bottom third of the lineup for now. AJ has a .329 OBP and doesnt exactly see a ton of pitches. I dont understand why anyone would think he is a good choice for the 2 hole. He was the tallest midget for the 2 hole last year. Beckham already sees enough pitches, hits to all fields and is a gap to gap doubles hitter. He is by far the best choice for the 2 hole right now, and should grow into a 3 hole hitter. Pods is not the super fast base stealer from the first half of 05. So its not like he has to hold back why Pods steals a base. Beckham has enough bat control and the ability to hit to the right side to hit and run and work on contact plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:35 PM) You're correct that A.J. doesn't take nearly as many pitches as a #2 hitter should. That said, the fact that he's hitting .300 (with a respectable .330 OBP) makes up for it. Beckham has already had to learn one new position this year, and is hitting .290 with some power down at the bottom of the lineup. I agree that he's EVENTUALLY probably going to hit in the two-hole, but why screw with him when he's finally producing offensively? Let the kid develop. Remember that he went something like 0-13 when he was first brought up. We don't want a repeat of that. A .330 OBP is not very good for a 2-hitter. AJ doesn't draw very many walks at all. Beckham has drawn 18 BB in 46 games and AJ has 13 BB in 83 games. Beckham's OBP is .42 points higher than AJ's. And if I'm not mistaken, Beckham hit 2nd all year in AA and AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I really like having a quality run producer at the bottom of the line up. It really helps get things back to the top of the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 I trust Beckham can handle anything we throw at him, at this point. The kid has shown he can handle pressure well. Until he slumps, I don't see a reason not to give him more and more responsibility until he shows signs of it affecting his batting average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) and should grow into a 3 hole hitter. That's debatable. I haven't seen any evidence or Utley- or Soriano-like power. Beckham has enough bat control and the ability to hit to the right side to hit and run and work on contact plays. You guys are expecting a heck of a lot from a 22-year-old rookie. I like to see him in the two-hole eventually, but making the kid learn a new position AND throwing him into the top of the lineup is a bit much, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:39 PM) A .330 OBP is not very good for a 2-hitter. AJ doesn't draw very many walks at all. Beckham has drawn 18 BB in 46 games and AJ has 13 BB in 83 games. Beckham's OBP is .42 points higher than AJ's. And if I'm not mistaken, Beckham hit 2nd all year in AA and AAA. OBP is a lot more important for a leadoff hitter than a #2. I'd rather have AJ's lower OBP and power than a higher-OBP contact hitter like Pods in the #2 spot. Lots of players hit high in the order in the minors, and then end up hitting 7th or 8th in the bigs in their rookie year because their managers want to protect them and let them develop. Edited July 28, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:44 PM) That's debatable. I haven't seen any evidence or Utley- or Soriano-like power. You guys are expecting a heck of a lot from a 22-year-old rookie. I like to see him in the two-hole eventually, but making the kid learn a new position AND throwing him into the top of the lineup is a bit much, IMO. Do you really think it bothers him? Do you watch his body language or the way he plays? He has the most confidence I've ever seen for a young guy on the Sox and he hasn't done anything but be awesome for us. As far as his power, well, he's 22 and he's a line-drive hitter. And now some of those line-drives are leaving the yard. He has insane potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:47 PM) OBP is a lot more important for a leadoff hitter than a #2. I'd rather have AJ's lower OBP and power than a contact hitter like Pods in the #2 spot. OBP is important for your top 3 hitters. There's a reason the 4th hitter is called the clean-up man. This isn't the NL. You aren't playing for 1 run. And what does Pods hitting 2nd have to do with anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) Do you really think it bothers him? Do you watch his body language or the way he plays? He has the most confidence I've ever seen for a young guy on the Sox and he hasn't done anything but be awesome for us. Why do you suppose that Ozzie has kept him at the bottom of the lineup this long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:50 PM) Why do you suppose that Ozzie has kept him at the bottom of the lineup this long? Because it's Ozzie Guillen and Gordon Beckham is a rookie. That's EXACTLY why he has kept him this low this long. And also because Alexei hasn't exactly been terrible in the 2 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) OBP is important for your top 3 hitters. There's a reason the 4th hitter is called the clean-up man. Funny, our #4 hitter has a higher OBP than our #3. Explain that one. OBP is not equally important for the #1, #2, and #3 hitters. It's paramount for the #1, but the ability to hit for power becomes a lot more important after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:52 PM) Because it's Ozzie Guillen and Gordon Beckham is a rookie. That's EXACTLY why he has kept him this low this long. And why do you suppose that is? Beckham's been tearing it up for over a month now. Why would Ozzie still have Beckham buried at the bottom of the lineup at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) I think there's prospects like Josh Fields and Mike Caruso where they excel in aspects of their games, and you hope they can sustain themselves on their strengths, and then there's prospects like Frank Thomas and Mags Ordonez, where you realize quickly that they are above average to elite players at several aspects of this game and sit back and let em play. I think there's no reason to believe at this point Beckham doesn't fall into an area where he's much closer to the latter category. It would be one thing if his numbers were propped up by a huge amount of homers (like fields), or if he was taking advantages of intangibles, or some unlikely streak, but he's hitting to all fields, drawing walks, hitting for power, and showing good instincts. I'm not saying he's a hall of famer, but I think at this point the kid is a major league player and a very good one at that. Plus, Ramirez, in terms of experience is only a little bit older than Beckham... Edited July 28, 2009 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:52 PM) Funny, our #4 hitter has a higher OBP than our #3. Explain that one. OBP is not equally important for the #1, #2, and #3 hitters. It's paramount for the #1, but the ability to hit for power becomes a lot more important after that. Are you serious? Our #4 hitter is Jim Freaking Thome and has arguably the best plate discipline of anyone currently in Major League Baseball. He's also like 11th all-time in BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Plus, Ramirez, in terms of experience is only a little bit older than Beckham... Huh? Alexei is a full 5 years older than Beckham. And didn't he play pro ball in Cuba? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) And why do you suppose that is? Beckham's been tearing it up for over a month now. Why would Ozzie still have Beckham buried at the bottom of the lineup at this point? You don't understand. Ozzie isn't keeping him down in the lineup because he's a rookie and he wants to protect him. He's keeping him down in the lineup because he's a rookie and Ozzie is an old-school motherf***er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Are you serious? Our #4 hitter is Jim Freaking Thome and has arguably the best plate discipline of anyone currently in Major League Baseball. He's also like 11th all-time in BB. Thanks for making my point. Now tell us why he's hitting 4th in the lineup with a .400 OBP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Huh? Alexei is a full 5 years older than Beckham. And didn't he play pro ball in Cuba? I meant MLB experience. Yes, he's older obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 28, 2009 -> 02:56 PM) Thanks for making my point. Now tell us why he's hitting 4th in the lineup with a .400 OBP? BECAUSE HE HAS MORE POWER THAN ANYONE IN OUR LINEUP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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