Jump to content

Phils Acquire Cliff Lee


DBAHO

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 78
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:28 PM)
Its one thing to trade for a Happ, who has proven he can pitch in the majors, or even Drabek, who is at AAA and so close. Knapp is 18 years old, and I dont care how highly touted he is, he is still a LONG way from the majors, and a lot of weird stuff can happen, like injuries, or it can just turn out he was overrated the whole time.

Happ hasn't proven s***, is Kyle Kendrick a proven Major League pitcher? No, but he had one good year (ERA wise). Happ's stuff and peripherals don't match his results, he's due for a BIG decline. I agree on Knapp though, he has some great K rates but his command is bad, as are his mechanics and he's been injury prone, those guys fail, often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:17 PM)
The Phillies got robbed blind on this one. Ultimately, I’d say it adds about to 2-4 wins this year in a division they were almost assured to win without making a move.

The move was to increase their chances in the post season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 03:17 PM)
The Phillies got robbed blind on this one. Ultimately, I’d say it adds about to 2-4 wins this year in a division they were almost assured to win without making a move.

 

I read they are concerned about facing the Giants in the postseason....Lee would help them match-up against a Lincecum/Cain combo...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 02:20 PM)
The move was to increase their chances in the post season.

Leaves them stacked for next year too. Remember, if you're a team like the Phillies...your window is now, when Howard, Utley, Rollins, perhaps Ibanez, perhaps Werth, Victorino, Hamels, Lidge are all right around their prime ages. 2 years from now, guys are getting hurt because they're older, guys are in walk years, guys are more expensive, etc. They've got a shot at the WS for 3 years in a row. You want to face Hamels, Blanton, and Lee 3 times in the same 7 game series?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:17 PM)
The Phillies got robbed blind on this one. Ultimately, I’d say it adds about to 2-4 wins this year in a division they were almost assured to win without making a move.

 

Probably a good thing then that this move had absolutely nothing to do with winning the division.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 02:17 PM)
Happ hasn't proven s***, is Kyle Kendrick a proven Major League pitcher? No, but he had one good year (ERA wise). Happ's stuff and peripherals don't match his results, he's due for a BIG decline. I agree on Knapp though, he has some great K rates but his command is bad, as are his mechanics and he's been injury prone, those guys fail, often.

Any time you do a deal like this for 3 or 4 guys, you're going for numbers. Last year we didn't think Clayton Richard looked like more than a reliever, now he's stepping up big time. Think about how many deals wind up being good deals because 1 or 2 guys develop? Or because a surprise guy develops? The Pierzynski trade...the big piece was Boof Bonser. The prize wound up being that converted guy named Joe Nathan. The original Colon trade was for Brandon Phillips. He was released by the Tribe, but they also got Sizemore and Lee. A couple of these guys are likely to bust. But it is an infusion of talent throughout the system that can either develop, be used for trades, or give you the ability to draft guys at other positions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 05:27 PM)
Probably a good thing then that this move had absolutely nothing to do with winning the division.

I think the playoffs are too big of a crapshoot to just assume that getting a top pitcher is going to clinch you a trip to the World Series. The way I see it is that the Phillies gave up a decent haul for a piece that will help them slightly, but offer no significant upgrade for the rest of the year. On paper the Phillies would look good going into a series against the Giants, however, if paper stood for anything then the Yankees would win it ever year. Looking at this deal In the long-term it does make sense, and stands to benefit both sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 03:31 PM)
I think the playoffs are too big of a crapshoot to just assume that getting a top pitcher is going to clinch you a trip to the World Series. The way I see it is that the Phillies gave up a decent haul for a piece that will help them slightly, but offer no significant upgrade for the rest of the year. On paper the Phillies would look good going into a series against the Giants, however, if paper stood for anything then the Yankees would win it ever year. Looking at this deal In the long-term it does make sense, and stands to benefit both sides.

 

It is a crapshoot...but the prevailing theory seems to be that dominant pitching beats dominant hitting, and that is the best way to succeed in such a crapshoot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 02:26 PM)
Leaves them stacked for next year too. Remember, if you're a team like the Phillies...your window is now, when Howard, Utley, Rollins, perhaps Ibanez, perhaps Werth, Victorino, Hamels, Lidge are all right around their prime ages. 2 years from now, guys are getting hurt because they're older, guys are in walk years, guys are more expensive, etc. They've got a shot at the WS for 3 years in a row. You want to face Hamels, Blanton, and Lee 3 times in the same 7 game series?

The Phils now have a shot at winning 2 or 3 straight world series. It was a brilliant move, plus while the Tribe got a good package, in no way do I think the Phils over-paid. It was a fair trade, imo. Made sense for both parties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:34 PM)
It is a crapshoot...but the prevailing theory seems to be that dominant pitching beats dominant hitting, and that is the best way to succeed in such a crapshoot.

 

^^^^^^^

The 2005 White Sox say hi!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:17 PM)
The Phillies got robbed blind on this one. Ultimately, I’d say it adds about to 2-4 wins this year in a division they were almost assured to win without making a move.

 

And you could say the same thing about Halladay. The Phillies aren't shooting for division titles. They're going for championships. And a rotation headed by Lee/Hamels (or Hamels/Lee), Blanton, Moyer and possibly Pedro gives them a much better chance in October.

 

 

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:31 PM)
I think the playoffs are too big of a crapshoot to just assume that getting a top pitcher is going to clinch you a trip to the World Series. The way I see it is that the Phillies gave up a decent haul for a piece that will help them slightly, but offer no significant upgrade for the rest of the year. On paper the Phillies would look good going into a series against the Giants, however, if paper stood for anything then the Yankees would win it ever year. Looking at this deal In the long-term it does make sense, and stands to benefit both sides.

 

Who's assuming anything? They're attempting to give themselves the best chance to win a championship. By your logic no team with a 5+ game lead in their division should attempt to make themselves better because anybody can win in the playoffs. Remember when the Sox had a 15 game lead in 2005? Remember all the Griffey rumors? Remember all the AJ Burnett rumors? That's what a good GM does. Of course anybody can win. That's what's great. You still don't sit on your hands if you have a chance to get better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t want to seem like I’m backtracking, B) but I’ll concede that you all made some very legitimate points. At the end of the day the Phillies put themselves in a position to win RIGHT NOW, and I can’t see a problem with that. Plus, not giving up Drabek is big.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...