knightni Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 It must really suck to be a Pirates fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:08 AM) It must really suck to be a Pirates fan. Why, they had a pretty good day with these trades? They know that they're playing for 2011, and the money they saved in this trade will only help them in their effort to get Sano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:09 PM) Why, they had a pretty good day with these trades? They know that they're playing for 2011, and the money they saved in this trade will only help them in their effort to get Sano. They are always playing for 3 years away. That is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 06:11 PM) They are always playing for 3 years away. That is the problem. But now they actually have some promise with Alderson, Morton, McCutchen, Duke, Alvarez, Doumit, Milledge, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:11 AM) They are always playing for 3 years away. That is the problem. Agreed, but it looks like they're actually willing to spend some money to try and get their team into good position in 3 years. By that time, maybe the Cubs and Cardinals won't be so much more talented than the rest of the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:08 PM) It must really suck to be a Pirates fan. Ya - this is the first deal though I can say they got something which has potential to finally be what theyve been looking for. It makes you wonder how they botched trading the Arams, Bays and McClouths of the world for any less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (League @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:13 PM) But now they actually have some promise with Alderson, Morton, McCutchen, Duke, Alvarez, Doumit, Milledge, etc. Unfortunately some of those guys will be moved as well. Duke and Doumit will be dumped next year when the team is in dead last again while awaiting the arrival of Alderson or Alvarez to fulfill his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 05:17 PM) Unfortunately some of those guys will be moved as well. Duke and Doumit will be dumped next year when the team is in dead last again while awaiting the arrival of Alderson or Alvarez to fulfill his potential. They need to basically come up with a wall like KW has...put a pushpin on a 3 year period, decide "That's the time we're going for it"...anyone who's a FA before then they should deal for prospects, and they should draft and trade with getting people who can be on the team during that stretch. Don't draft high schoolers the year beforehand, draft college guys who can maybe step in a year or two later. Draft high schoolers now and develop them for that 3 year block. Try to set yourself up so that you have very few people who are FA's after the first 2 years, so that everyone moves through on the same schedule and maybe you nail it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Jason Bay Nate McLouth Aramis Ramirez Jack Wilson Freddy Sanchez Jason Kendall Nyjer Morgan Adam LaRoche Xavier Nady Sean Casey Mike Gonzalez Ty Wigginton Brian Giles Matt Stairs Reggie Sanders Kenny Lofton Jeff Suppan Gary Matthews Jr. Derek Bell Jason Schmidt Bronson Arroyo Tony Womack John Lieber Jose Guillen Joe Randa Esteban Loaiza Jay Bell Jeff King Charlie Hayes Denny Neagle Zane Smith Andy Van Slyke Tim Wakefield Doug Drabek John Smiley Danny Jackson Bobby Bonilla Barry Bonds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:28 PM) Jason Bay Nate McLouth Aramis Ramirez Jack Wilson Freddy Sanchez Jason Kendall Nyjer Morgan Adam LaRoche Xavier Nady Sean Casey Mike Gonzalez Ty Wigginton Brian Giles Matt Stairs Reggie Sanders Kenny Lofton Jeff Suppan Gary Matthews Jr. Derek Bell Jason Schmidt Bronson Arroyo Tony Womack John Lieber Jose Guillen Joe Randa Esteban Loaiza Jay Bell Jeff King Charlie Hayes Denny Neagle Zane Smith Andy Van Slyke Tim Wakefield Doug Drabek John Smiley Danny Jackson Bobby Bonilla Barry Bonds Impressive list. Only the Pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 08:34 PM) Impressive list. Only the Pirates. The Expos/Nationals list would make you want to vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:36 PM) The Expos/Nationals list would make you want to vomit. O I remember their list. We used to laugh about it when we preach about how the strike season was the year of the Sox, Franks "Career year" that HOF bashers like to say he is missing, and it was also the year of the Expos...Having guys like Randy, Pedro, Walker over the years and dealing he young Sizemore's, Cliff Lees...just awful management. Very vomit worthy. Edited July 30, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:13 PM) Agreed, but it looks like they're actually willing to spend some money to try and get their team into good position in 3 years. By that time, maybe the Cubs and Cardinals won't be so much more talented than the rest of the division. I really believed in Neal Huntington or whatever his name is, until I saw what he dealt McLouth for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Nokona @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:02 PM) Sabean is hilariously bad That may or may not be true. Doesn't really matter to me. But let's look at the whole picture here. You've got a team (the Giants) with arguably the best pitching staff top to bottom in the NL. The WC is staring them right in the face. Everybody knows what they lack: Offense. Now If Sabean sits on all these prospects and doesn't make a move of any kind to upgrade the offense, everybody is saying what they're saying right now: That's he's an idiot. So it's a lose/lose. Now in Lincecum/Cain, the Giants have their 1-2 starters for the next 10 years (or at least until they can become free agents). You've got Bumgarner in the minors. If he's as good as we've been led to believe, you've got 3/5ths of your rotation set for years to come. And you can just round out the rotation after that. They had quality pitching prospects to spare. So they made the moves they made. Garko/Sanchez certainly aren't stars, but they're upgrades. And they give the Giants a better chance to win the WC. Prospects will come and go. But when you have a staff like theirs, and you have a legitimate chance to get to October, I think you gotta go for it. Even if you have to overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Wow, what a great pick up by the Pirates... However, I still think they are a terrible organization and this is the only good offseason move they have made, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 05:08 PM) It must really suck to be a Pirates fan. Why, that is an absolutely phenomenal haul for the Pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Brian Sabean = still stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 06:13 PM) Seriously, Alderson? Ugh, this just makes me want to trade Lexi even more. I really wonder what Boston would offer up for him. Clay Buchholz would be fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 09:45 PM) Why, that is an absolutely phenomenal haul for the Pirates. Because of the continual team turnover. You can't buy a jersey or root for a guy if everyone who ever gets good is gone in 3 or 4 years. It reminds me of the 1986-89 Sox; except this has been going on since 1993 in Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 08:04 PM) I don't think 2 games out warrants a firesale but I do think it'd be nice to not go for it with crap additions and end up coming up short or being bumped in round 1 of the playoffs. I get the whole "it's nice to get in cuz anything can happen" but when ur bumped out then what? No offense Pumpkin, but I hate this argument. Maybe I'm getting old and cranky, but I remember when the Sox making the playoffs was a big deal. I also think we are pretty lucky as fans to have a consistently winning team right now. Back to the topic at hand - great deal by the Pirates in terms of potential talent. However, as others have said, they are constantly rebuilding. How many years have they done the same thing and never been competitive? I guess their best bet is to wait a couple years until the Cubs are crippled by their contracts and the Brewers can't afford their current core. Still, I agree with the "sucks to be a Pirates fan" sentiment. At some point, you just want to see your team win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Pirates farm is looking awfully nice. God damn I can't believe they got Alderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDsDirtySox Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 does this move end up costing Juan Uribe his job in the big leagues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (JDsDirtySox @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 11:52 PM) does this move end up costing Juan Uribe his job in the big leagues? Nah, he’s still a better option then Velez off the bench. He was actually playing decently at 2b, making a Sanchez for Alderson trade all the more absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (tommy @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 06:18 PM) Who would want Alexei ? Who wouldnt? SS who can hit and plays a decent SS in his FIRST pro season at the position. Until he was hurt, he was one of our best trading chips easily. BTW, the Pirates are starting to rape people, I hope they turn that org around. Edited July 30, 2009 by RockRaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 07:13 PM) Agreed, but it looks like they're actually willing to spend some money to try and get their team into good position in 3 years. By that time, maybe the Cubs and Cardinals won't be so much more talented than the rest of the division. This is such a great point, i'm glad I saw it. The Cubs are going to be saddled with hefty contracts for a few older players, not to mention a bare minor league system and free agents coming available that dont have the age defying use of PED's. The Pirates could contend if they build their team correctly. That would be sweet IMO, I always liked the old Pirates teams that competed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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