Freddy Sanchez to the Giants

[witesoxfan]

I really believed in Neal Huntington or whatever his name is, until I saw what he dealt McLouth for...

 

what's wrong with Morton, Locke, and Hernandez?

 

I also think this is probably the best Pirates fans have felt in years. Their minor league system looks like it's actually going to be producing good players here, and rather than just selling off a piece or two every year, they are going all out on selling this year. Good for them, that franchise could very good within a couple years.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

No offense Pumpkin, but I hate this argument. Maybe I'm getting old and cranky, but I remember when the Sox making the playoffs was a big deal. I also think we are pretty lucky as fans to have a consistently winning team right now.

 

Back to the topic at hand - great deal by the Pirates in terms of potential talent. However, as others have said, they are constantly rebuilding. How many years have they done the same thing and never been competitive? I guess their best bet is to wait a couple years until the Cubs are crippled by their contracts and the Brewers can't afford their current core. Still, I agree with the "sucks to be a Pirates fan" sentiment. At some point, you just want to see your team win!

 

 

 

None taken.

 

Maybe I am a pessimist and I don't see the Sox ever being that team who "just gets in and watches what happens". I just hate the idea of being in what is not the strongest division in baseball, so even if we win the division and we are 1 of the 4 teams in the playoffs - I dont see us as any better then the 4th best. The Angels and whatever 2 teams from the AL East are 90% of the time better then us. Or so it would seem in a short series.

 

I feel spoiled almost or in my defense - realistic. Odds are slim that your team wins the WS. We won one when we were pretty much clearly the best team in baseball. Minus some injuries and a slow 2nd half. But we got hot and we were the best team most of the season.

 

We werent a team that snuck in and had an awful awful defense, mediocre bullpen, 3-4 SP and an offense that hasnt quite turned the corner to become league average yet.

 

So I know you hate the arguement but how long are we going to keep this gruop together. They won - and since then they have missed the playoffs twice and got bumped immediately the other time after needing a playoff to get in. Its cool and whatever - but these guys are older and we need to reshape it. Thats how ive seen it for a couple years in the offseasons but it never comes...

 

So I sit around all season and watch these guys compete and get excited and forget about the firesale - but this year I just cant because after seeing these guys be bums in 07 and barely scrape in in 08. It's time these things get dealt cuz KW clearly doesnt want to give them the missing piece/pieces they need.

 

Its not that theyre bad - its just eventually you gotta make a choice and this guy just refuses to make the right one. A big trade would help us no doubt. Itd hurt the farm and whatevr else but itd help this team get over the 3 behind hump IMO. Which will be 5-6 games after the weekend. Thats another story though...but we dont do it. We dont sell and we end up screwed cuz we need to rely on our scouting - which isnt good and these guys who leave that we get picks for always suck.

 

Its just time this happens since the Sox have proven they cant be detroit or minnesota and will prove the AL east to be better as well....Whats the point?" and ya ive been drinking - sorry for ranting.

[witesoxfan]

On the optimistic side of that argument, that mediocre 3-4 - I assume you mean Floyd-Contreras - has proven that they can be solid and even very good this season alone, even at Contreras's age. Clayton Richard has been fantastic his past couple starts, and that could very easily continue (and I still think the worst case scenario for him is becoming an above average left handed reliever). The bullpen, though struggling right now, struggled around this time last year and started to figure it out around this time last year as well (though they were without Linebrink). The lineup is starting to get healthy, though they are pretty awful defensively; a good offensive 3Bman would do a hell of a lot for this lineup right now, especially if Alexei is sidelined for a while (Rolen has been mentioned for a while on here, and I think he'd be a pretty good player to insert into the 6 spot in the lineup while moving Beckham to 2B).

 

And, beyond all of that, even if this current core is kept in tact, the Sox have introduced a number of younger pieces from the minors over the past 3 years, either via trade or drafting, that have come up and produced quite well for the big league club, and more help is on the way. Now is not the time to be selling; now would be the time to make minor moves in hope that you strike gold and it helps propel the team to a division winner.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

On the optimistic side of that argument, that mediocre 3-4 - I assume you mean Floyd-Contreras - has proven that they can be solid and even very good this season alone, even at Contreras's age. Clayton Richard has been fantastic his past couple starts, and that could very easily continue (and I still think the worst case scenario for him is becoming an above average left handed reliever). The bullpen, though struggling right now, struggled around this time last year and started to figure it out around this time last year as well (though they were without Linebrink). The lineup is starting to get healthy, though they are pretty awful defensively; a good offensive 3Bman would do a hell of a lot for this lineup right now, especially if Alexei is sidelined for a while (Rolen has been mentioned for a while on here, and I think he'd be a pretty good player to insert into the 6 spot in the lineup while moving Beckham to 2B).

 

And, beyond all of that, even if this current core is kept in tact, the Sox have introduced a number of younger pieces from the minors over the past 3 years, either via trade or drafting, that have come up and produced quite well for the big league club, and more help is on the way. Now is not the time to be selling; now would be the time to make minor moves in hope that you strike gold and it helps propel the team to a division winner.

 

No I said Mediocre bullpen and was citing that we had only 3-4 Starting pitchers.

 

And they both have proven to pitch well which is why I granted us 3. and I put the dash for 4 because of how well Jose has looked. I just don't trust Contreras because we seen stretches of brilliance before. And lets face it 3 weeks ago people wanted Richard gone and Poreda in or anything so he isn't reliable yet.

 

But I didn't mean we have 3-4 mediocre pitchers as you took it.

 

Now onto what you said. I'm going to take exactly one part that I liked best and show you where I disagree with you.

 

You said "we've introduced a number of younger pieces who have produced well". I agree 100%.

 

That is exactly why you move your aging veterans for more "sure thing prospects" or much better prospects instead of hoping you make minor tweaks and "strike gold" by dealing away the prospects you just got for lesser talent (see the Giants dealing for Sanchez as an example of what I mean - if we are going to make a splash - make a big one that helps for a while).

 

Right now would be a great time to sell off Dye/Jenks/whoever. Lose them - gain players who will make us better for next year or the future and replace them with high-caliber free agents with their money.

 

It doesn't help propel to a division winner always either. You make it sound like we havent done minor tweaks in the past that havent worked. We made minor tweaks one time when we were already the best team in baseball so please don't use 05 as an example.

 

Otherwise - I think minor tweaks are just that - minor. Our team is built to win a weak division, not to win a world series. And that kind of building is going to get us what we have right now. Thats a dogfight with two teams who we can't beat and a schedule much tougher then theirs.

 

You keep mentioning the what are essentially the "ifs". Richard is throwing well - yes. Prior to that people already packed his bags to be dealt. The bullpen was doign well and now theyre struggling - right now theyre struggling. You can't gaurentee they'll turn it around in time to keep us in it. Sure they may get better in September again but we need it now.

 

There are just too many things that need to be turned around and have go our way. I think they can - I just don't want to be sitting here August 10th, 8 games back and saying man we should've sold, got stuff for our veterans to make a bigger run next year. Thats the fear - but if we are going to go for it then I am all in. Lets see what they can do.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar

[CanOfCorn]

No I said Mediocre bullpen and was citing that we had only 3-4 Starting pitchers.

 

And they both have proven to pitch well which is why I granted us 3. and I put the dash for 4 because of how well Jose has looked. I just don't trust Contreras because we seen stretches of brilliance before. And lets face it 3 weeks ago people wanted Richard gone and Poreda in or anything so he isn't reliable yet.

 

But I didn't mean we have 3-4 mediocre pitchers as you took it.

 

Now onto what you said. I'm going to take exactly one part that I liked best and show you where I disagree with you.

 

You said "we've introduced a number of younger pieces who have produced well". I agree 100%.

 

That is exactly why you move your aging veterans for more "sure thing prospects" or much better prospects instead of hoping you make minor tweaks and "strike gold" by dealing away the prospects you just got for lesser talent (see the Giants dealing for Sanchez as an example of what I mean - if we are going to make a splash - make a big one that helps for a while).

 

Right now would be a great time to sell off Dye/Jenks/whoever. Lose them - gain players who will make us better for next year or the future and replace them with high-caliber free agents with their money.

 

It doesn't help propel to a division winner always either. You make it sound like we havent done minor tweaks in the past that havent worked. We made minor tweaks one time when we were already the best team in baseball so please don't use 05 as an example.

 

Otherwise - I think minor tweaks are just that - minor. Our team is built to win a weak division, not to win a world series. And that kind of building is going to get us what we have right now. Thats a dogfight with two teams who we can't beat and a schedule much tougher then theirs.

 

You keep mentioning the what are essentially the "ifs". Richard is throwing well - yes. Prior to that people already packed his bags to be dealt. The bullpen was doign well and now theyre struggling - right now theyre struggling. You can't gaurentee they'll turn it around in time to keep us in it. Sure they may get better in September again but we need it now.

 

There are just too many things that need to be turned around and have go our way. I think they can - I just don't want to be sitting here August 10th, 8 games back and saying man we should've sold, got stuff for our veterans to make a bigger run next year. Thats the fear - but if we are going to go for it then I am all in. Lets see what they can do.

 

Pumpkin...you said it yourself: 90% of the time they are better than us. That leaves 10% and that is huge. That's why we watch sports. George Mason, AZ Cardinals, the run of wild cards going to and making the WS. When you have nothing to lose because "everyone is better," sometimes you play looser. Remember the 116 win Mariners? What did they do inthe playoffs? Nuthin. Look, I'm not saying the Sox are going to win the WS...or even make the playoffs, but everyone is basically 0-0 when the playoffs start. So, go on a run and see what can happen.

 

That being said: Giants are doing exactly what we are talking about. Trying to get into the playoffs any way they can.

[Rowand44]

Wow. I can't believe this one. Alderson for Freddy f***in Sanchez?!?!? Really? Wow.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

Pumpkin...you said it yourself: 90% of the time they are better than us. That leaves 10% and that is huge. That's why we watch sports. George Mason, AZ Cardinals, the run of wild cards going to and making the WS. When you have nothing to lose because "everyone is better," sometimes you play looser. Remember the 116 win Mariners? What did they do inthe playoffs? Nuthin. Look, I'm not saying the Sox are going to win the WS...or even make the playoffs, but everyone is basically 0-0 when the playoffs start. So, go on a run and see what can happen.

 

That being said: Giants are doing exactly what we are talking about. Trying to get into the playoffs any way they can.

 

If I said 99% of the time would you have still said that? haha.

 

And not to keep beating it over the head but those teams u mentioned. They didn't win it all.

 

I have no doubt this team can make it to the playoffs if things start clicking. We did that last year and exited immediately. That sucks. The excitement is fun for the few days youre in then reality sets in that we were ill prepared, out of our league and then its not so fun.

[knightni]

Wow. Two vegetables talking to each other; what is this, Veggie Tales?