Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:00 PM) He doesn't have much value by himself, but fathom is probably right in the sense he could be a decent piece in a package for a bigger trade. He's a throw in. Organizations have a lot of guys like that. Pie might be a better throw in. I really doubt there are many teams coveting Russell Branyan light. Edited July 30, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 05:00 PM) He doesn't have much value by himself, but fathom is probably right in the sense he could be a decent piece in a package for a bigger trade. Other GM's and scouts have eyes. If we on this board can see that Fields can't hit a 90 mph fastball right down the middle of the plate, other teams notice that as well. That's why most of the time, opposing pitchers only throw 3, 4 pitches to Fields-he's like a #8 hitter or the pitcher hittting in the NL. Few teams will offer anything of value for that kind of bat playing 3b or DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 It appears the Dodgers want Sherrill and the Orioles want Josh Bell as part of the return. It could mean they really have no interest in Fields. Guys that don't field particularly well, who strike out once every 3 times up, who hit .220 with a low OBP and really don't run all that well usually wind up with a price tag of take whatever you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If we get Pie and Wise is still on the team... I don't even know, but I'll be livid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:56 AM) Anderson has the same amount of stolen bases as does Wise and despite his bad average, bad ops, bad slugging %, and bad OBP, he IS STILL BETTER than Wise. Anderson also has much bettter defensive skills. This was the dumbeset of moves. No it's not going to make or break the Sox, but I see no logic in keeping Wise over Anderson. None. Wise may be the games current worst player. Lemme ask all the BA over Wise haters this: Let's say you owned a business. There's one guy that does one thing very well, and a bunch of other things ok. This guy doesn't seem like he wants to be there. He's always b****ing and talking about how he could do better elsewhere. Then there's another guy. He doesn't do anything that well, and isn't as good as the other guy, but he tries. He's a team-first guy who will do anything you ask him to do. He takes the criticism and comes to work everyday. Which do you want? Personally, I want the guy that wants to be there and will do anything asked, no matter his limitations. Either way, it's done...BA is gone, Wise will be soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:56 AM) Anderson has the same amount of stolen bases as does Wise and despite his bad average, bad ops, bad slugging %, and bad OBP, he IS STILL BETTER than Wise. Anderson also has much bettter defensive skills. This was the dumbeset of moves. No it's not going to make or break the Sox, but I see no logic in keeping Wise over Anderson. None. Wise may be the games current worst player. That's my point! Wise and Anderson have the same number of SBs, and Wise missed about 8 weeks with the shoulder injury. The team needs some speed, and Wise was a better option than Anderson given that need. Anderson is the better overall player, but when you're looking at the 23rd or 24th guy on your roster, you sometimes have to take the guy that fills a need instead of the better overall talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:52 AM) Suit yourself, I'm calling him 3.14159 I find it funny that both his first name and last name are or can be linked to derogatory names for a woman's area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) Lemme ask all the BA over Wise haters this: Let's say you owned a business. There's one guy that does one thing very well, and a bunch of other things ok. This guy doesn't seem like he wants to be there. He's always b****ing and talking about how he could do better elsewhere. Then there's another guy. He doesn't do anything that well, and isn't as good as the other guy, but he tries. He's a team-first guy who will do anything you ask him to do. He takes the criticism and comes to work everyday. Which do you want? Personally, I want the guy that wants to be there and will do anything asked, no matter his limitations. Either way, it's done...BA is gone, Wise will be soon. From all reports, BA was a very liked guy in the clubhouse. That other stuff about wanting to be somewhere else was speculation by some White Sox people. Perhaps it was true, but most likely spin. I read somewhere BA and Quentin were really tight. Talk about two opposites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:19 PM) From all reports, BA was a very liked guy in the clubhouse. That other stuff about wanting to be somewhere else was speculation by some White Sox people. Perhaps it was true, but most likely spin. I read somewhere BA and Quentin were really tight. Talk about two opposites. Maybe, but it isn't just the clubhouse. BA pissed off Ozzie for his partying ways. I believe he pissed off the organization by leaving the Venezuelan Winter League, even if it was for a good reason. Didn't seem like he listened to the coaches about batting tendencies, either. All things that would make it seem like, to me, you don't really care about being here. Or your career in general, for that matter. Shoot, you can be everybody's pal, but that doesn't mean you want to work with them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) That's my point! Wise and Anderson have the same number of SBs, and Wise missed about 8 weeks with the shoulder injury. The team needs some speed, and Wise was a better option than Anderson given that need. Anderson is the better overall player, but when you're looking at the 23rd or 24th guy on your roster, you sometimes have to take the guy that fills a need instead of the better overall talent. What good is Wise's speed if he CAN'T GET ON BASE? Ever. The team NEEDS speed that is actually LINEUP credible. If Wise was a viable CF option that could take 4 at bats per game and get on base AT LEAST ONCE, then sure he's the guy to stay. But ... he is horrid and the fact he could potentially be a better pinch runner than Anderson is negated by the fact Anderson could be a better late inning defensive replacement. Keeping Wise over Anderson makes absolutely no sense and the tin foil circus in here that suggest Ozzie and Kenny just hate Anderson looks a bit more understandable when you see a player with a .186/.235 line getting routine starts in center field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 "FP would have caught that one" Just trying it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Fields for Pie also sounds like a trade of tasty desserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:12 PM) Fields for Pie also sounds like a trade of tasty desserts. I'll trade you my Strawberry Fields Forever for a piece of that Pie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSmoky2 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:50 AM) There's always room for Pie. Hold on, Bartolo—we haven't made the deal yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Honestly, I think the reason why Brian stuck around longer than most people thought he would is because Kenny really liked him and minus his first full year here, he made good cases to stay on the roster. I don't think Ozzie liked BA's partying ways his first year because it didn't seem like he was ready the next day, but he toned that down. Still, once your in Ozzie's doghouse, it's hard to get out. Kenny though kept him because he saw what a lot of us saw. Excellent defense who you could hide in a lineup with so much thump. Ozzie didn't really care for him, but BA changed. A ton of the vets didn't care for him his rookie year, but I heard even PK liked him so much and they all would miss him in the clubhouse when he was traded. This is about Fields though. Honestly, I don't think Walker is the right hitting coach for Pie. Can anyone tell me who has he ever been successful with as far as young players go? I can't think of many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (OldSmoky2 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:29 PM) Hold on, Bartolo—we haven't made the deal yet. Maybe Felix Pie can help Bartolo return to 2005 Cy Young form. xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 02:34 PM) Can anyone tell me who has he ever been successful with as far as young players go? I can't think of many. What exactly do you think major league hitting coaches can do? The reason we don't have good hitters is because we don't have good hitters. It's called lack of talent. The good hitters like Jermaine Dye, AJ, Konerko who routinely bat at or around .300 are NOT the result of Walker? Or should Dye be hitting .350 with a better hitting coach? Does Walker get any credit for how brilliant Beckham has gone from automatic out to .300 major league hitter only 2 months into his major league career? And Scotty pods hitting near .300? What hitter has left the White Sox and Walker's terrible tutelage and gone on to great things? Players like Brian Anderson will be for their new team what they were for us...subpar ML hitters. I am not saying there isn't value in good hitting coaches, there is, but this notion that Walker is the source of all our hitting problems is laughable. These are big league hitters, THEY SHOULD ALREADY KNOW how to hit, they should understand the game by now. The hitting coach essentially is the hitters 'eyes from afar', nothing more than another viewpoint on a hitter's swing. If a player is having trouble with inside pitches, does he need a freaking coach to tell him, "why don't you try to open your stance slightly?" ... "Wow coach, I never thought of that." Some people (not you necessarily) are so out to lunch they actually believe Walker tells the hitters, 'now guys...let the pitches down the middle go by and swing at those that are in the dirt." What will make Greg Walker look like a good hitting coach is good hitters on the White Sox. Edited July 30, 2009 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) I'll trade you my Strawberry Fields Forever for a piece of that Pie! Cookies for (Pecan) Pie. I'll do that deal any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) What exactly do you think major league hitting coaches can do? The reason we don't have good hitters is because we don't have good hitters. It's called lack of talent. The good hitters like Jermaine Dye, AJ, Konerko who routinely bat at or around .300 are NOT the result of Walker? Or should Dye be hitting .350 with a better hitting coach? Does Walker get any credit for how brilliant Beckham has gone from automatic out to .300 major league hitter only 2 months into his major league career? And Scotty pods hitting near .300? What hitter has left the White Sox and Walker's terrible tutelage and gone on to great things? Players like Brian Anderson will be for their new team what they were for us...subpar ML hitters. I am not saying there isn't value in good hitting coaches, there is, but this notion that Walker is the source of all our hitting problems is laughable. These are big league hitters, THEY SHOULD ALREADY KNOW how to hit, they should understand the game by now. The hitting coach essentially is the hitters 'eyes from afar', nothing more than another viewpoint on a hitter's swing. If a player is having trouble with inside pitches, does he need a freaking coach to tell him, "why don't you try to open your stance slightly?" ... "Wow coach, I never thought of that." Some people (not you necessarily) are so out to lunch they actually believe Walker tells the hitters, 'now guys...let the pitches down the middle go by and swing at those that are in the dirt." What will make Greg Walker look like a good hitting coach is good hitters on the White Sox. Whew...that post made my head spin. Here's the thing...sometimes, a hitter might not know they are doing something, like a hitch in the swing or opening a hip. Not so much long term, but from at-bat to at-bat. This is what I would think he says... Walk: Hey, you know why you popped that pitch up? Player: Yeah, I got under it. Walk: Do you know why you were under it? Your back elbow dropped...did you think it was a sinker? Player: No, I didn't feel anything different. Walk: Yeah, I'll show you on video later. That's what I think Walk does. He will ask hitters what went wrong and why? If they know the answer...pat him on the butt and say, go get 'im next time. If they don't, show the video, work in the cages, whatever. THAT'S what I think hitting coaches do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierSox Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm all for this move if it means the end of Dewayne Wise. Otherwise it's pretty much a wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 With Baltimore getting Josh Bell from LA, they may be less interested in Fields. But, hopefully they'll still do the Fields/Pie trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) Lemme ask all the BA over Wise haters this: Let's say you owned a business. There's one guy that does one thing very well, and a bunch of other things ok. This guy doesn't seem like he wants to be there. He's always b****ing and talking about how he could do better elsewhere. Then there's another guy. He doesn't do anything that well, and isn't as good as the other guy, but he tries. He's a team-first guy who will do anything you ask him to do. He takes the criticism and comes to work everyday. Which do you want? Personally, I want the guy that wants to be there and will do anything asked, no matter his limitations. Either way, it's done...BA is gone, Wise will be soon. Prior to BA being sent down, give me on single source out there in the news that said BA was complaining about his role (and no SoxTalk is not an official source). You're right, in the end it doesn't matter because neither one of them could hack it. Yet, BA clearly had more upside. He was better in every statistical category, except for SBs. Not tom mention Wise is OLD. All I want is a little accountablility towards the front office and Ozzie for making this obvious terrible decision. I do respect that Wise gives his all, there's no taking that away, but don't tell me BA didn't want to be here prior to being sent down... or that he didn't give it his all either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:20 PM) Isn't he pretty much another Jerry Owens?? Pie is Owens on crack. He's much faster and a lot more power. If he could ever figure it out, he'd be a hell of a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re-reading this... I didn't realize PIe was only 24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Why was it a terrible decision? Brian, as the 4th OF, can't steal a base like Wise can (occasionally) and that's what was needed at the time a decision had to be made. Brian is a AAAA player; I for one am not going to lose sleep because he's not here. Ao anyone who can steal a base can be consider major league quality? I question if Wise is even an AAAA player. You sure overrate stolen bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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