Manny and Big Papi tested positive for steroids in 03

[ILMOU]

I think there's a good chance the steroid era started well before anyone has realized it.

 

BTW, did you ever hear the story about Pud Galvin? (great name for a rock band, but I digress) He was baseball's first 300 game winner and a HOF pitcher. He, allegedly, injected himself with monkey testosterone before starts in 1899. Now there's a visionary for you.

 

[nitetrain8601]

ESPN cries. I've suspected Kevin Millar back then as well. Damon?

 

Me too. He was never the same after that year. Damon is a good bet too.

 

I'd be shocked if Kent was clean, frankly. Innocent until proven guilty is a nice ideal, but rather unrealistic in this toxic environment.

 

The news on Papi is the biggest non-surprise of the year. The man has the largest skull I've ever seen. It wasn't that big when he was a Twinkie.

 

The revelations about Manny were much more surprising to me, personally, because he put up great numbers prior even to the dawn of the so-called steroid era. I now believe he was one of the "pioneers", relatively speaking.

 

I honestly could go either way on Kent, but I will wait until there's actually solid evidence. A guy who's such a strong advocate against steroids(probably as much as Frank was) has to be proven to me. Honestly, I always thought Manny was one of the big ones simply because in 1996, he was such a good hitter, but he wasn't anywhere as huge as he is now. And that whole baggy jersey thing just covered the fact.

 

 

Another thing I'd really like to know is how and why these names are being leaked, who's doing the leaking, and why they're being leaked one by one.

 

My conjecture is that the leaker or leakers are being paid - HANDSOMELY - and that there's more money in it for them by doing it this way. Some dirty dealing is going on, that's for certain.

 

Probably because of the money. I thought I read somewhere on RealGM though that these two names were leaked via various lawyers who were part of the process.

 

[hammerhead johnson]

My conjecture is that the leaker or leakers are being paid - HANDSOMELY - and that there's more money in it for them by doing it this way.

 

Well yeah, of course it's money-motivated. It doesn't make much sense to release the entire list all at once.

 

The next guy that says DURRRR THEY NEED TO RELEASE TEH ENTIRE LIST RIGHT NOW THIS IS BS!!!!!!!!!!!! should be tied down and beaten with soap on a rope. I know it sounds harsh, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Flash Tizzle]

Another thing I'd really like to know is how and why these names are being leaked, who's doing the leaking, and why they're being leaked one by one.

 

My conjecture is that the leaker or leakers are being paid - HANDSOMELY - and that there's more money in it for them by doing it this way. Some dirty dealing is going on, that's for certain.

 

So what if they are? It doesn't take away from the fact that Ortiz tested positive for steroids. It almost seems like you're pulling the line so often connected with players when they're names are released, and that's attacking the messenger or their motivations for releasing information rather than the person them self.

[bschmaranz]

Nice job Ortiz, way to join the Palmeiro side of the steroid argument.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Agreed. You can't put guys there just because you think they took steroids. It's like someone saying they think Frank Thomas juiced and add him to a list. They have as much credibility as you. I don't remember Bagwell being linked, but he may have. Does anyone remember?

 

I only put Bagwell and Kent there b/c I could have sworn people linking them in the past.

[dpd9189]

I only put Bagwell and Kent there b/c I could have sworn people linking them in the past.

 

Just release the whole list so we can move on.

[Flash Tizzle]

Just release the whole list so we can move on.

Personally, I enjoy the long, agonizing wait.

 

It'd be even funnier if they released one name, once a week, to make sure they grab the headlines. You group them all together, as others have pointed out, it takes away from the circus. Some will escape criticism.

 

If it were me, I'd purposely release the name of a player who had a good week. Or even better, wait until a team is in the World Series, THEN release a few names. Anything to make people embarrassed. Hell, it's not even that I care about steroids or HGH -- I just love watching people complain in baseball.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[ILMOU]

So what if they are? It doesn't take away from the fact that Ortiz tested positive for steroids. It almost seems like you're pulling the line so often connected with players when they're names are released, and that's attacking the messenger or their motivations for releasing information rather than the person them self.

 

Not my intention - you're jumping to conclusions, Flash. You won't find me apologizing for any of these guys. I wouldn't vote any of them into the Hall.

 

That doesn't change the fact that when these guys gave up their pee, they were promised anonymity in the results.

 

[CanOfCorn]

Not my intention - you're jumping to conclusions, Flash. You won't find me apologizing for any of these guys. I wouldn't vote any of them into the Hall.

 

That doesn't change the fact that when these guys gave up their pee, they were promised anonymity in the results.

 

This is what gets me...now that some names have been leaked, might as well dump the whole thing (sorry Hammerhead, it's all or nothing in this case).

 

And if I were the players, I would consider re-orging the MLBPA. I know Fehr is leaving/left, but I would be pissed. So what if Congress wanted the list...fight! That's what you do, you're a union. Take it to court. Cuz they had to know, once it's in government, it isn't safe. Certainly isn't a matter of National security. I say boo to baseball, the MLBPA and Congress on this one.

[wallyburger]

Maybe Manny's lack of humility and his clown act during his 50 game suspension had something to do with the timing of this one. That traveling minor league road show he participated in had to pizzz a few off in the MLB office. May as well out Ortiz, since the 2 of them are inseparable and the guy was flat out lying to the media and fans.

Edited July 30, 2009 by wallyburger

[tonyho7476]

I love when when the Red Sox image gets tainted. Hate em.

 

Big Sloppy sucks.

[Balta1701]

This is what gets me...now that some names have been leaked, might as well dump the whole thing (sorry Hammerhead, it's all or nothing in this case).

 

And if I were the players, I would consider re-orging the MLBPA. I know Fehr is leaving/left, but I would be pissed. So what if Congress wanted the list...fight! That's what you do, you're a union. Take it to court. Cuz they had to know, once it's in government, it isn't safe. Certainly isn't a matter of National security. I say boo to baseball, the MLBPA and Congress on this one.

The lists were seized under a legal search warrant associated with the BALCO case. The Feds had every right to take it. Just like everyone on it has the right to sue the feds if their name is on the list and it leaks that their name is on the list.

 

The problem? You don't have a case unless your name is actually on that list. Thus...filing the lawsuit is tantamount to an admission of steroid abuse.

 

The problem here is not that the list is being leaked slowly, or embarrassing people...the problem is...baseball had a huge steroid problem for years and 103 or so of its players were stupid enough to be caught when they had a 6 month warning that testing was coming.

[SoxFan562004]

The lists were seized under a legal search warrant associated with the BALCO case. The Feds had every right to take it. Just like everyone on it has the right to sue the feds if their name is on the list and it leaks that their name is on the list.

 

The problem? You don't have a case unless your name is actually on that list. Thus...filing the lawsuit is tantamount to an admission of steroid abuse.

 

The problem here is not that the list is being leaked slowly, or embarrassing people...the problem is...baseball had a huge steroid problem for years and 103 or so of its players were stupid enough to be caught when they had a 6 month warning that testing was coming.

It depends what the list consists of. If the actual list that was seized was an entire list of everybody that got tested, either negative or positive, the union could make an argument that the negative players can file a lawsuit to prevent it from being released since they took the test with promise of privacy.

 

Now, obviously there's some flaws with my theory. You have to convince players who tested negative to go along with it and there's obviously legal attacks that can be made against that, but just trying to be creative here!

[Steve9347]

Ha, ESPN all of the sudden is happy to state that all teams had players who were on steroids and that these players' names coming out is unfair.

 

So comical.

[WCSox]

So you're saying he didn't starting putting up Hall of Fame numbers for a period of time because he simply changed his hitting philosophy?

 

LOL, just like Luis Gonzalez's "I just started trying to pull the ball" excuse.

 

[SoxFan562004]

Ha, ESPN all of the sudden is happy to state that all teams had players who were on steroids and that these players' names coming out is unfair.

 

So comical.

yeah, they're doing the same thing about the '04 and '07 champs, saying that everyone had tainted players then

[southsider2k5]

Personally, I enjoy the long, agonizing wait.

 

It'd be even funnier if they released one name, once a week, to make sure they grab the headlines. You group them all together, as others have pointed out, it takes away from the circus. Some will escape criticism.

 

If it were me, I'd purposely release the name of a player who had a good week. Or even better, wait until a team is in the World Series, THEN release a few names. Anything to make people embarrassed. Hell, it's not even that I care about steroids or HGH -- I just love watching people complain in baseball.

 

Its the perfect payback for the game that purposefully drug its feet while gaining all of the benefits of this crap.

[wallyburger]

I actually heard an out of town sports talking heads show panel say, "steroids saved baseball" after the fans quit the game because of the strike. I can see the logic, but they thought that was the overwhelming positive aspect of steroids. All, I could think was, Wow that is screwed up if that was the reason to accept steroid and HGH use.

[HuskyCaucasian]

So, what is the list of juicers who have been to be confirmed on the 2003 list?

I remember Sosa, ARod, and now the duo.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Grimsley and Segui I believe are the other two names to come out.

[SoxAce]

Canseco now saying a Hall of Famer was on PEDs Hate to continue to feed the ego on this douche, but he's somehow became a saint lately.

 

7 HOF teammates of Canseco's..

Reggie Jackson

Wade Boggs

Don Sutton

Nolan Ryan

Rickey Henderson

Rich Gossage

Dennis Eckersley

 

Since he's saying this now, ima go out on a limb and say it was Rickey Henderson but that's pure speculation on my part. Though Rickey would probably tell me that Rickey don't do steroids, Rickey is a clean player, and Rickey got all of Rickey's stats the natural way cause he's the greatest of all time.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

A tree could have told you that Ortiz was cheating.

 

I felt badly when the Yanks lost to the SawRx in 2004. Not only did it spawn terrible unspeakable s*** such as Fever Pitch, but it also offered all a glimpse as to what will happen when miserable, miserable cutesy loser franchises finally chance upon a World Championship. You will never hear the end of it. I hate that this has happened to baseball, but I'm also glad that Jimmy Fallon's movie can be further questioned and disregarded. The PED SawRx were a slightly more successful, less bumblef*** version of the Cubs until 2004. A pill here and there, two buddies jabbing each other in the ass with needles, and all of a sudden you have the most nauseating World Series Champions in forever. You couldn't hide in an Afghani cave from it. The only thing magical about the PED SawRx winning in 2004 and 2007 is that everyone chose to ignore the fact that Papi's head was comparable to a small hot air balloon, and that human beings were able to develop artificial means of achieving endurance and strength. Both are remarkable.

 

On a side note, IIRC, and if I'm wrong correct me, wasn't Damon's name also associated with PED's at one point? I could have sworn that there was at least the briefest mention somewhere along the line.

 

I've never read, but anticipate Curt Schilling's thoughts on all this craziness and tomfoolery in his blog. I'm literally putting down a Dostojevsky novel right now in anticipation.

 

It's a shame for MLB. A full blown enema of the 104 who tested positive would suit the league far better than this steady drip drip that keeps you up all night. Sooner or later (with 'later' being a bad, bad thing for MLB) these names are going to surface.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[wallyburger]

This unofficial "official leaked list" is making the rounds of the "net". Absolutely no validation , but plenty of no surprises if it is authentic.

 

1.Nomar Garciaparra

2.Manny Ramirez

3.Johnny Damon

4.Trot Nixon

5.David Ortiz

6.Shea Hillenbrand

7.Derek Lowe

8.Pedro Martinez

9.Brian Roberts

10.Jay Gibbons

11.Melvin Mora

12.Jerry Hairston

13.Jason Giambi

14.Alfonso Soriano

15.Raul Mondesi

16. Aaron Boone

17.Andy Pettitte

18.Jose Contreras

19.Roger Clemens

20.Carlos Delgado

21.Vernon Wells

22.Frank Catalanotto

23.Kenny Rogers

24.Magglio Ordonez

25.Sandy Alomar

26.Bartolo Colon

27.Brent Abernathy

28.Jose Lima

29.Milton Bradley

30.Casey Blake

31.Danys Baez

32.Craig Monroe

33.Dmitri Young

34.Alex Sanchez

35.Eric Chavez

36.Miguel Tejada

37.Eric Byrnes

38.Jose Guillen

39.Keith Foulke

40.Ricardo Rincon

41.Bret Boone

42.Mike Cameron

43.Randy Winn

44.Ryan Franklin

45.Freddy Garcia

46.Rafael Soriano

47.Scott Spiezio

48.Troy Glaus

49.Francisco Rodriguez

50.Ben Weber

51.Alex Rodriguez

52.Juan Gonzalez

53.Rafael Palmeiro

54.Carl Everett

55.Javy Lopez

56.Gary Sheffield

57.Mike Hampton

58.Ivan Rodriguez

59.Derrek Lee

60.Bobby Abreu

61.Terry Adams

62.Fernando Tatis

63.Livan Hernandez

64.Hector Almonte

65.Tony Armas

66.Dan Smith

67.Roberto Alomar

68.Cliff Floyd

69.Roger Cedeno

70.Jeromy Burnitz

71.Moises Alou

72.Sammy Sosa

73.Corey Patterson

74.Carlos Zambrano

75.Mark Prior

76.Kerry Wood

77.Matt Clement

78.Antonio Alfonseca

79.Juan Cruz

80.Aramis Ramirez

81.Craig Wilson

82.Kris Benson

83.Richie Sexson

84.Geoff Jenkins

85.Valerio de los Santos

86.Benito Santiago

87.Rich Aurilia

88.Barry Bonds

89.Andres Galarraga

90.Jason Schmidt

91.Felix Rodriguez

92.Jason Christiansen

93.Matt Herges

94.Paul Lo Duca

95.Shawn Green

96.Oliver Perez

97.Adrian Beltre

98.Eric Gagne

99.Guillermo Mota

100.Luis Gonzalez

101.Todd Helton

102.Ryan Klesko

103.Gary Matthews

 

[Flash Tizzle]

LOL at the number of contributing 2004 Red Sox players on it. That World Series team is going to take a HUGE hit.

 

It's really funny to me watching ESPN, and all their Sportscenter anchors practically begging MLBPA to release the names. Of course when it involves embarrassment to them, or their beloved Red Sox, they want it all out in the open as quickly as possible. I was watching ESPN News yesterday and one of the male anchors was practically losing it talking about how they keep releasing name after name, little by little.

 

Again, I say let it trickle out slowly.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Flash Tizzle