Now is the Time to Acquire Roy Halladay

[Jordan4life_2007]

They also get 4 draft picks if they leave via FA.

 

You can't guarantee anything, but they would have the best shot out of everybody.

 

Yippie! Draft picks! Let's just go on ahead and agree to disagree on this subject. I can tell this is going nowhere.

[kwolf68]

They're already in position to do this.

 

They were also in position before obtaining Lee. Adding Halladay means THEY GET BETTER. The better they are, the better chance they have to repeat.

 

Not saying they should do it necessarily, but if they did I'd applaud them for going for the World Series with absolutely determination. Screw 5 years down the road when you're margin for error for winning the World Title in the next two years is SEVERELY reduced with the addition of Doc.

 

[DaTank]

3 titles even though he's a FA after next year?

 

2008, 2009, 2010 = three.

[BigSqwert]

2008, 2009, 2010 = three.

he said 3 MORE titles

[kwolf68]

2008, 2009, 2010 = three.

 

 

They could also resign Halladay. If the Phillies dumped more spects to get Halladay you'd have to think they'd really try to get him locked up. Who knows what would happen on that front, but the Phillies with Doc would be in position to win it all for the next 'how ever many years' the core of that team would remain (which would cost money obviously).

 

 

[DaTank]

he said 3 MORE titles

 

My fault. Didn't look closely at what he said.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Which makes 5 years down the road even LESS relevant. Teams do whatever they can to 'be in the conversation' for a World Title.

 

No, teams do whatever they can within reason.

 

These prospects the phillies have are not guaranteed anything. In fact, they NONE are the next Lincecum or Pujols...sure they are nice prospects doing good things at AAA or lower ball, so you're going to hang onto them? Speculate...while the games best righty and an even bettter chance to win it all again goes by the door?

 

And yet the games "best righty" is more than likely not going anywhere. So I guess it's just a case of teams not wanting to get better? It's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.

 

There are two schools of thought. I honestly agree with them both depending on the circumstances of the team. The Phillies ARE A TEAM that I would consider moving top prospects to get Halladay, because all their pieces are pretty much there...adding one more starter, one of the games best righties, to an already great team, defending champion wouldn't be a hard move for me to make personally.

 

And BOTH schools of thought ARE adhered to by GMs around the league, neither is right or wrong.

 

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for you. It wouldn't be hard for me either. It wouldn't be hard for any fan. Again, it's a whole lot more complicated when you're an actual GM for an ML club.

 

 

[kwolf68]

he said 3 MORE titles

 

 

Who knows how many it could be. Could be less, or more depending on what Doc thought. If Halladay went to Phillie he would be virtually guaranteed of being on a legit contender for the forseeable future (2-4 years). He can either pitch in nothingness in Toronto or pitch for a chance EVERY YEAR in Philly. That would be as close to guaranteed success as playing for the Bankees or Red Sox. He's be on the big stage every year. The Phillies also have money, they could lock him up to an extension.

[Jordan4life_2007]

They were also in position before obtaining Lee. Adding Halladay means THEY GET BETTER. The better they are, the better chance they have to repeat.

 

So you're saying 1+1=2? You're not getting what I'm saying. Of course adding Halladay would make them better. Just like it would make the Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, Angels, Dodgers, ect, ect,ect better. But at what cost? Short and long term? These are factors that can't just be brushed aside.

 

Not saying they should do it necessarily, but if they did I'd applaud them for going for the World Series with absolutely determination. Screw 5 years down the road when you're margin for error for winning the World Title in the next two years is SEVERELY reduced with the addition of Doc.

 

Again, easy for a fan to say. A GM can't think that way.

[kwolf68]

And yet the games "best righty" is more than likely not going anywhere. So I guess it's just a case of teams not wanting to get better? It's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.

 

 

 

Halladay may not go anywhere because the Blue Jays asking price is ridiculous. I've even said that in this thread. However, if they decide to compromise a bit, then Halladay surely will go somewhere...and guess where he will go? To a team 'in position' to win the World Series BEFORE the trade. He's not going to Pittsburgh or Arizona...he's going to a team with a chance to win it all. WITH or WITHOUT HIM. With him means their (whoever gets him) chance just got a whole lot better.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Halladay may not go anywhere because the Blue Jays asking price is ridiculous. I've even said that in this thread. However, if they decide to compromise a bit, then Halladay surely will go somewhere...and guess where he will go? To a team 'in position' to win the World Series BEFORE the trade. He's not going to Pittsburgh or Arizona...he's going to a team with a chance to win it all. WITH or WITHOUT HIM. With him means their (whoever gets him) chance just got a whole lot better.

 

But aren't you implying that a team such as the Phillies should pay that ridiculous price no matter what?

[kwolf68]

So you're saying 1+1=2? You're not getting what I'm saying. Of course adding Halladay would make them better. Just like it would make the Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, Angels, Dodgers, ect, ect,ect better. But at what cost? Short and long term? These are factors that can't just be brushed aside.

 

 

 

Again, easy for a fan to say. A GM can't think that way.

 

 

But GMs think that way ALL THE TIME. Unreal. There are bucketloads of examples of teams dealing tons of prospects for a single player to help them win now.

 

At what cost? The offers speculated from the various teams have been VERY impressive. There is of course a limit on everything. I am not saying trade your 10 best prospects for Halladay, but the Phillies (or anyone) going after him and moving several prospects is a normal thing in baseball, not complicated at all...the only thing complicated is which prospects and how many you want to give up.

 

If the Blue Jays would soften their stance from insane to marginally crazy Halladay would be on a new team today.

 

 

[kwolf68]

But aren't you implying that a team such as the Phillies should pay that ridiculous price no matter what?

 

 

No I am not. What I said about the Phillies is they didn't part with ANY of the 4 top guys they wanted to hang onto (Taylor, Brown, Happ, Drabek) to get Cliff Lee. So they still have what appears to be plenty of resources left IF THEY WANTED to talk to Toronto. NOW, it's likely The Jays would want ALL FOUR of those guys (based on their dizzy demands to this point) and at that point the Phillies GM would have to decide that tough call. I am not in favor or against making that move. In other words, if Philllies GM said those 4 guys were too much for Roy, I understand that. If he did deal them for Halladay I can understand that too.

 

 

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

But GMs think that way ALL THE TIME. Unreal. There are bucketloads of examples of teams dealing tons of prospects for a single player to help them win now.

 

At what cost? The offers speculated from the various teams have been VERY impressive. There is of course a limit on everything. I am not saying trade your 10 best prospects for Halladay, but the Phillies (or anyone) going after him and moving several prospects is a normal thing in baseball, not complicated at all...the only thing complicated is which prospects and how many you want to give up.

 

If the Blue Jays would soften their stance from insane to marginally crazy Halladay would be on a new team today.

 

But they're not going to do that. JP Riccardi has made it clear what type of package he wants for Roy. I mean c'mon. He wants Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers. He wants Derek Holland AND Justin Smoak from the Rangers. So now that the deadline is just over two hours away he's going to ask for considerably less? He'd be fired on the spot.

[kwolf68]

But they're not going to do that. JP Riccardi has made it clear what type of package he wants for Roy. I mean c'mon. He wants Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers. He wants Derek Holland AND Justin Smoak from the Rangers. So now that the deadline is just over two hours away he's going to ask for considerably less? He'd be fired on the spot.

 

How do you know JP won't soften his stance? What is he supposed to say, "yea...we're going for the moon and stars now, but around 4 today we'll take a little less."

 

Of course he's going to come out asking for huge returns to begin with, maybe he can find someone to be foolish enough to do it. But I can't believe he isn't prepared to talk about a lesser bounty than what it is perceived.

 

GM's lie all the time, they are playing poker. Hell yea, why not ask about Kershaw...what's the worst that will happen? Just a dial tone.

 

His current demands are way out in the stratosphere, almost so ridiculous it's not even part of a credible negotiation...I just think he's trying to set the bar.

[Jordan4life_2007]

How do you know JP won't soften his stance? What is he supposed to say, "yea...we're going for the moon and stars now, but around 4 today we'll take a little less."

 

Of course he's going to come out asking for huge returns to begin with, maybe he can find someone to be foolish enough to do it. But I can't believe he isn't prepared to talk about a lesser bounty than what it is perceived.

 

GM's lie all the time, they are playing poker. Hell yea, why not ask about Kershaw...what's the worst that will happen? Just a dial tone.

 

His current demands are way out in the stratosphere, almost so ridiculous it's not even part of a credible negotiation...I just think he's trying to set the bar.

 

Dude, the deadline is like 2 hours away. I understand that you start out shooting for the stars. But you don't soften your stance just a couple hours before the deadline.

[kwolf68]

Dude, the deadline is like 2 hours away. I understand that you start out shooting for the stars. But you don't soften your stance just a couple hours before the deadline.

 

 

Why not? That's exactly the way one could play the game. You surely don't soften your stance 2 weeks before the deadline. Makes no sense...He has an alloted time to deal Roy, you don't take the lowest offer you'll accept 2 weeks before the deadline.

 

Sure, he may not be interested in anything but everything he's asking for, OR it could be part of negotiations to try to ratchet the offers up some. Who the heck knows, maybe 10 minutes before the deadline he'll call back a team who made an initial offer he turned down and accept it. Maybe all along he is willing to accept said offer, but wanted to spend the remaining time trying to get something more.

 

Who knows? No one knows for sure what is real in any of these negotiations, but I can certainly see him softening his stance 2 hours (or even 10 minutes) before the deadline...ASSUMING he is actually softening it to begin with, as the offer may be to his liking anyway.