son of a rude Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I don’t make this trade. The Sox are giving up too much for a guy who’s under contact for only one more season. I understand the picks are nice to have, but it will take several years for them to become valuable if at all. Plus you’re giving up two key pieces to our major-league team in Richard and Ramirez. Who replaces Alexei? Nix? That’s a huge drop-off offensively IMO. Not to mention you’ve traded away your best two options for a second left-hander in the pen come playoff time. If you’re serious about competing, then you need to acquire a legitimate 3B or SS to replace Alexei and a lefty for the pen. That’s going to cost us even more young talent. Considering how old our current core, it doesn’t seem like wise to trade it all. I’d make one last offer to the Blue Jays. Flowers, Poreda, Hudson and Fields for Halladay. That’s three of our top 5 prospects plus an intriguing throw-in. There is very little chance the Jays accept that trade, but I doubt they’ll get a better one. This Halladay situation reminds me of the Mark Teixeira scenario. Two deadlines ago, the Rangers had tons of leverage since Mark was locked up for another season and demanded a huge package for him. The Braves eventually gave their top 4 prospects to acquire him. The next season when the Braves faded out of contention, they traded Teixeira for Casey f***ing Kotchman. Texas played it smart by taking the best offer knowing Mark’s value would only decrease. If the Jays don’t move Halladay by tomorrow, I really think they’re going to regret it for a long time. I would much rather trade Alexei, Poreda, Richard, Fields, and Shelby. Flowers is our catcher of the future, and he looks like he will be a good one. Imo, Hudson is our best pitching prospect in our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Cowley says that KW wouldn’t budge on Danks and Floyd, made two or three different runs for Halladay, but was told that there was nothing in the system that interested the Blue Jays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) Had the Dbacks not requested his trade than he would have became a free agent. But Halladay wouldn't just be able to become a FA at seasons end. No I get that. What I am asking is this... Lets say Halladay gets dealt here (or anywhere really) and then he exercises this rule and demands the trade. Then lets say we don't/can't deal him. He is eligible to become a FA in March. What I am asking is if that scenario comes to be - would the team be able to offer him some form of Arbitration? Since it's an unusual rule - and if he becomes a free agent - would we be able to gain compensation for him or does he just skate free into free agency and leaves us high and dry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:59 PM) He is already 28 though. I don't think he will get much better than he is now. I find Aaron Poreda somewhat expendable too, considering Dan Hudson and Dexter Carter are looking like studs. The only person I am hesitant on giving up is Clayton. He has good stuff and has pitched pretty well the past couple games, but we would be getting Doc frickin Halladay. I would be all for this trade. Precisely why this trade wont happen. The Jays are asking for the MOON, the stars and everything in between...unless Beckham is involved we won't get Halladay. People in here are funny...Perado is expendable, Fields is...so we're going to package them for Halladay? LMAO...Halladay isn't coming for expendable players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Precisely why this trade wont happen. The Jays are asking for the MOON, the stars and everything in between...unless Beckham is involved we won't get Halladay. People in here are funny...Perado is expendable, Fields is...so we're going to package them for Halladay? LMAO...Halladay isn't coming for expendable players. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 i wouldn't do it, i would hold off till the offseason and if the sox no longer see alexei in their plans try and move him to boston for buchholz and westmoreland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Boston wouldn't move Westmoreland for Roy Halladay. Why would they include him AND Bucholtz for Alexei? Edited July 31, 2009 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I don't think Roy would waive his no trade to come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) Kenny: Now is the Time to Acquire Roy Halladay By Jason Gage SoxNet The trade deadline ~24 hours away and the Sox have now lost 5 of 6 since Buehrle's perfect game and now find themselves 3 games back and in need of a spark. Could Roy Halladay be that spark?Full Article A .500 team should trade away it's farm system because it needs a spark? Ridiculous, and stupid, logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 04:23 PM) I'd definitely do the proposed deal you mentioned Gage. A 2010 rotation of Buehrle, Halladay, Danks, Floyd, and a rookie in the 5 spot is pretty damn solid. However, I still feel we need more offensive help this year to compete. I'd do a deal for halladay as long as Rolen comes with him. This team lacks defense and Rolen is solid both offensively and defensively. If you think about it, the Sox would still be in great shape after 2010 since Rolen, AJ, Konerko, and Halladay would be off the books. IMO this deal wouldn't hurt our youth movement and it would let us compete for a title for this year and next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 06:31 PM) A .500 team should trade away it's farm system because it needs a spark? Ridiculous, and stupid, logic. Name one team with a better front four than Halladay, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd. I don't care what the Sox record is, if you make the post-season you can contend for a title. I take it you want the club to sell or don't think the Sox have what it takes? Up until this mini skid the Sox have played pretty darn solid baseball the past 5-6 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 06:44 PM) Name one team with a better front four than Halladay, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd. I don't care what the Sox record is, if you make the post-season you can contend for a title. I take it you want the club to sell or don't think the Sox have what it takes? Up until this mini skid the Sox have played pretty darn solid baseball the past 5-6 weeks. Counterpoint: this mini skid is coming, once again from the bats. The pitching hasn't been the problem aside from the closer. Adding a starting pitcher doesn't make the bats wake up unless it's Micah Owings. Adding a starting pitcher doesn't get Jenks back in a groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) What do you guys think. Do the Jays bite? Would you do it? I'd do it in a heartbeat, but if they've demanded John Danks, Gavin Floyd, or Gordon Beckham, you can forget about it. All signs point to the Jays asking astronomical prices on which no sane team would bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 08:44 PM) Name one team with a better front four than Halladay, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd. I don't care what the Sox record is, if you make the post-season you can contend for a title. I take it you want the club to sell or don't think the Sox have what it takes? Up until this mini skid the Sox have played pretty darn solid baseball the past 5-6 weeks. If the Sox traded for Halladay without giving up Floyd or Danks, their rotation would be at the top, if not at the top, of the AL. I don't want the Sox to sell or buy. Yes, with Halladay they are a much better team, but at what cost? Kenny has moved the team into a transitional mode, with several younger players (Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, Quentin, Denks, Floyd) part of a new core, and others hopefully on the way. As exciting as it would be to acquire Halladay, I don't think the Sox are guaranteed the division, given their upcoming schedule, poor defense and inconsistent offense. I'd be much more in favor of such a move if I thought the Sox were better than average right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If the Sox want to trade for him, he needs to agree to a two year extension. They shouldn't get rid of guys like Flowers and Poreda for a loaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 That's why I am surprised they are asking for so much since its already been said he is pretty much going to be a one year rental..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I'm kind of asking out of left field but I was at work all day without any news source, and I got a twitter msg from Stone that said: "I wonder if kenny williams will hold a press conference to deny the floyd, richard, ramirez, and flowers for halliday." Was there an early rumor floating around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (tommy @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 09:37 PM) I'm kind of asking out of left field but I was at work all day without any news source, and I got a twitter msg from Stone that said: "I wonder if kenny williams will hold a press conference to deny the floyd, richard, ramirez, and flowers for halliday." Was there an early rumor floating around? Sounds like Stone is just being sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Good article. I personally think the Jays would be dumb not to take your proposed deal. They want to dump Halladay and they get Lexi, two pretty darn good pitching prospects. It's a trade we might someday regret, but it is Halladay. As long as he doesn't get hurt, that's pretty major. I do think Lexi's absence would really hurt us though. It might cripple us. His bat is pretty big in our lineup which has even more holes w/out Lexi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:18 PM) Counterpoint: this mini skid is coming, once again from the bats. The pitching hasn't been the problem aside from the closer. Adding a starting pitcher doesn't make the bats wake up unless it's Micah Owings. Adding a starting pitcher doesn't get Jenks back in a groove. You talk about the bats, but the Sox lost three seperate games because of there pen (one of them was the Drays game) but two Tiger games were lost because of the pen. One of the Twins games was arguably lost on poor defense (Buehrle's game). So while the offense wasn't great I still say the Sox should have won a fewm ore games and had they done so we'd actually be talking about the 1st place Sox. My what a fine line there is between winning and losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:21 PM) If the Sox traded for Halladay without giving up Floyd or Danks, their rotation would be at the top, if not at the top, of the AL. I don't want the Sox to sell or buy. Yes, with Halladay they are a much better team, but at what cost? Kenny has moved the team into a transitional mode, with several younger players (Beckham, Ramirez, Getz, Quentin, Denks, Floyd) part of a new core, and others hopefully on the way. As exciting as it would be to acquire Halladay, I don't think the Sox are guaranteed the division, given their upcoming schedule, poor defense and inconsistent offense. I'd be much more in favor of such a move if I thought the Sox were better than average right now. While they give up RIchard/Poreda/Ramirez, I counter and say the Sox still have Viciedo for 3B, Beckham for SS, Danks and Mitchell for the OF, a young Quentin still in the OF, and Hudson/Carter as young pitchers. Plus with those 4, I could make a legit case of Hudson opening the season in your rotation as the Sox should be able to deal with the growing pains from there 5th starter. And of course Tyler Flowers for catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (tommy @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:37 PM) I'm kind of asking out of left field but I was at work all day without any news source, and I got a twitter msg from Stone that said: "I wonder if kenny williams will hold a press conference to deny the floyd, richard, ramirez, and flowers for halliday." Was there an early rumor floating around? That would be one of the worst trades in the history of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 05:35 PM) I would much rather trade Alexei, Poreda, Richard, Fields, and Shelby. Flowers is our catcher of the future, and he looks like he will be a good one. Imo, Hudson is our best pitching prospect in our system. Flowers and Hudson are both great prospects who have the talent to become above average major leaguers. Alexei is already an above average major league shortstop and Richard is showing signs of being at worse a solid left-handed back of the rotation starter. The value they add to the team not only from a production standpoint but also a cost certainty perspective is immense. Alexei and Richard have shown they won’t succumb to the pressures of playing for and against major league baseball teams. Flowers and Hudson simply have not. At this point in time, Alexei and Richard are more valuable to the team now and in the future than Flowers and Hudson. A couple years from now that could all change. Looking just at this season, trading Alexei and Richard for Halladay is counter-productive to trying to win it all. If you are going to try to improve your team by acquiring an impact player, you can’t trade important pieces off your major league roster unless you have the depth to replace it. Unfortunately, the Sox do not have solid replacements waiting in the wings so it makes much more sense to trade Flowers and Hudson IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 if Halladay isnt going anywhere, would TOR consider moving Rolen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 09:27 AM) if Halladay isnt going anywhere, would TOR consider moving Rolen? That would be Rolen the dice. Please tip your servers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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