Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Don't know if already been posted According to Gammons we could get Giles for average prospects, if we took on Kendell salary also. Which is 40 mil over the next 4 years. I would do it. It would give us a CF who is also LH and has power plus speed. And catcher who would allow us to send down Olivo so he can get his swing back in the minors(I still think Olivo will be very good just thinks he needs some more work in the minors), and then next year when Alomar either retires or leaves as a FA we could bring Olivo back up. But the catch is we do have to pay all of Kendell salary which may be the major hold up in the trade. But if we could do a trade of Lee, Rauch, and Rivera for those 2 I would defenatliy do it. so here is the trade Sox get Giles Kendell Pirates get Rauch Lee Rivera So what do you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I'd do it. I don't think Reinsdorf would, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 You would do it because you don't have to sign the checks, and may sure they don't bounce. Unless I was guaranteed a playoff run and an increase in ticket sales, I wouldn't do it. You would hamstring this organization for 4 years. Think Jaime Navarro, and double it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 You would do it because you don't have to sign the checks, and may sure they don't bounce. Unless I was guaranteed a playoff run and an increase in ticket sales, I wouldn't do it. You would hamstring this organization for 4 years. Think Jaime Navarro, and double it. I think the diffrence between Jamie and these 2 is that these guys are still good players(Giles being great), while Jamie was just average. I doubt it would hamstring our franchise. One thing that I forgot to put was that Giles has a No trade clause in his contract and I don't think we are one of the teams he can be traded to without him waiving it. So he would have to waive his no trade clause also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Jason Kendall is no Jaime Navaro. Kendall remains one of the better offensive hitting catchers in baseball and Giles is a quality center fielder. For the remainder of the season you have a lineup that looks like this: 2B Alomar C Kendall 1B Thomas RF Ordonez CF Giles LF Everett DH Konerko/Daubach SS Valentin 3B Crede/Graffanino More than likely Everett and Colon are gone after this season and you no longer have Lee so it makes Kendall's contract a little more bearable. I think you have to bring Alomar back to play 2B since no one else is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 One thing that I forgot to put was that Giles has a No trade clause in his contract and I don't think we are one of the teams he can be traded to without him waiving it. So he would have to waive his no trade clause also. That is correct. This trade would make the Sox World Series contenders on paper immediately (but we all know how durable paper is ) but I think that would be enough to get Giles to waive the no trade clause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Jason Kendall is no Jaime Navaro. Kendall remains one of the better offensive hitting catchers in baseball and Giles is a quality center fielder. For the remainder of the season you have a lineup that looks like this: 2B Alomar C Kendall 1B Thomas RF Ordonez CF Giles LF Everett DH Konerko/Daubach SS Valentin 3B Crede/Graffanino More than likely Everett and Colon are gone after this season and you no longer have Lee so it makes Kendall's contract a little more bearable. I think you have to bring Alomar back to play 2B since no one else is ready. I like your lineup but I would just breakup, Thomas and Maggs, and Giles and Everett. Maybe with Thomas hitting 3rd, Giles 4th, Maggs 5th, and Everett 6th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Kendall has slipped dramatically the last couple years. 2 or 3 years from now making $10 million a year, it will hamstring a team on a limited budget. He will be Jaime Navarroesque in terms of production vs. paycheck. And since his salary is double Navarro's...Giles is a great player. In essence your adding approx. $18 million a year in salary. Ordonez goes up to $14 million next year. That's $32 million for 3 players. Buerhle goes to arbitration. You want to re sign Alomar, he isn't cheap. Frank will be at least $6 million. Konerko is $6.5 and you can't move him. Koch is $6 million next year. Right there your looking at $60 million which is probably over the budget already. Loaisa is $3.5 million. It can't be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Kendall has slipped dramatically the last couple years. 2 or 3 years from now making $10 million a year, it will hamstring a team on a limited budget. He will be Jaime Navarroesque in terms of production vs. paycheck. And since his salary is double Navarro's...Giles is a great player. In essence your adding approx. $18 million a year in salary. Ordonez goes up to $14 million next year. That's $32 million for 3 players. Buerhle goes to arbitration. You want to re sign Alomar, he isn't cheap. Frank will be at least $6 million. Konerko is $6.5 and you can't move him. Koch is $6 million next year. Right there your looking at $60 million which is probably over the budget already. Loaisa is $3.5 million. It can't be done. In our lineup with Thomas behind him he will produce trust me. Yes he is overpaid but he still is a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 In our lineup with Thomas behind him he will produce trust me. Yes he is overpaid but he still is a good player. The line up isn't the problem. The problem is what it costs to put that line up on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The Pirates already made it clear that they are gonna try to send Giles and Kendall together.. And I dont really think we need Kendall I really dont think we need to send down Olivo either.. Hes doing a great job defensivly and we are doing fine with his offensive numbers.. there is no reason to stop his exposure Giles would be a nice fit in left field but the Pirates are not looking to add salary, so giving them Lee is not gonna work.. They are lookin for prospects and we cant add Giles without losing one of the starting outfielders now so we might as well forget about this deal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Don't know if already been posted According to Gammons we could get Giles for average prospects, if we took on Kendell salary also. Which is 40 mil over the next 4 years. I would do it. It would give us a CF who is also LH and has power plus speed. And catcher who would allow us to send down Olivo so he can get his swing back in the minors(I still think Olivo will be very good just thinks he needs some more work in the minors), and then next year when Alomar either retires or leaves as a FA we could bring Olivo back up. But the catch is we do have to pay all of Kendell salary which may be the major hold up in the trade. But if we could do a trade of Lee, Rauch, and Rivera for those 2 I would defenatliy do it. so here is the trade Sox get Giles Kendell Pirates get Rauch Lee Rivera So what do you think. The Pirates won't take anyone with a salary, unless it is paid. They want prospects. We would have to give them guys like Jeremy Reed, Joe Borchard, Kris Honel, Neal Cotts, Jon Rauch, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Don't know if already been posted According to Gammons we could get Giles for average prospects, if we took on Kendell salary also. Which is 40 mil over the next 4 years. I would do it. It would give us a CF who is also LH and has power plus speed. And catcher who would allow us to send down Olivo so he can get his swing back in the minors(I still think Olivo will be very good just thinks he needs some more work in the minors), and then next year when Alomar either retires or leaves as a FA we could bring Olivo back up. But the catch is we do have to pay all of Kendell salary which may be the major hold up in the trade. But if we could do a trade of Lee, Rauch, and Rivera for those 2 I would defenatliy do it. so here is the trade Sox get Giles Kendell Pirates get Rauch Lee Rivera So what do you think. The Pirates won't take anyone with a salary, unless it is paid. They want prospects. We would have to give them guys like Jeremy Reed, Joe Borchard, Kris Honel, Neal Cotts, Jon Rauch, etc Unless something has changed we would only have to give up average prospects. So you can take off Honel, Cotts and Reed. You are probaly right about them not taking on salary. So it would probaly be a deal involving Borchard, Rauch, and Rivera. I don't consider Borchard a top prospect now because of his age. And experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 After thinking about it, I would pass on the Giles/Kendall duo. Too expensive. Giles is solid and would help any team, but Kendall could come over here and just as easily hit .210 as .310. There is a week to go before the trading deadline, and I don't think anyone else is going to help the Pirates by taking on Kendall and that ridiculous contract. Only the Yanks can afford it, and what would they do with Kendall? I would not be surprised if July 31st comes and Kendall is still a Pirate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 After thinking about it, I would pass on the Giles/Kendall duo. Too expensive. Giles is solid and would help any team, but Kendall could come over here and just as easily hit .210 as .310. There is a week to go before the trading deadline, and I don't think anyone else is going to help the Pirates by taking on Kendall and that ridiculous contract. Only the Yanks can afford it, and what would they do with Kendall? I would not be surprised if July 31st comes and Kendall is still a Pirate. I think its 90/10 that they get traded so I agree. But I disagree with you on him struggling to hit. I thinke he would be great in the #2 whole Between Alomar and Thomas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The other problem would be that Giles has already said once that he would exercize his no trade clause if the Sox were involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 This is what the ESPN insider says about the Giles trade situation. Told you we wouldn't have to give up much. "Brian Giles Pirates A's Padres? Jul. 22 - Giles told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review he would not be shocked if he's dealt by the July 31 deadline. "Not if they're losing a lot of money and they're tearing this thing down," he told the paper, which noted the outfielder has a limited no-trade clause that permits deals only to the Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, Giants, Rockies and Braves. The A's, however, still think they might have a shot at him. The San Francisco Chronicle indicates the Pirates' asking price is dropping and the team might be able to acquire Giles without surrendering one of its three so-called untouchable prospects -- P Rich Harden, OF Nick Swisher or SS Bobby Crosby. Monday, the Beaver County (Pa.) Times listed the following names as possible components of an Oakland package for Giles: Second baseman Mark Ellis and outfielder Eric Byrnes from the major-league club; right-hander Aaron Harang from Triple-A, and Class AA pitchers Shane Komine and John Rheinecker, shortstop Freddie Bynum and Swisher. The paper also indicated that Oakland might have to unload Terrance Long's contract before bringing Giles aboard, but Giles, who has a limited no-trade clause, reportedly said Sunday he was unsure he would agree to the trade. The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported over the weekend that mounting financial losses have made a Pirates fire-sale almost certain, with everyone from Giles (in the second year of a five-year, $45 million contract) to Jason Kendall (with four years, $42 million remaining on his deal) on the block. The paper also indicated the Pirates nearly had a deal that would have sent both Giles and Kendall to the Padres before changing their minds." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The other problem would be that Giles has already said once that he would exercize his no trade clause if the Sox were involved. Maybe Giles was the "mind blowing" trade Hawk mentioned. Maybe Giles said he would exercise his no trade BEFORE the trade was made, so the deal was killed. Its just speculation on my part, but it might of happened. Why do they trade players with no trade clauses, and announce the trades without consulting the player with the clause first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 You would do it because you don't have to sign the checks, and may sure they don't bounce. Unless I was guaranteed a playoff run and an increase in ticket sales, I wouldn't do it. You would hamstring this organization for 4 years. Think Jaime Navarro, and double it. Um, no, I'd do it because if I was Jerry Reinsdorf, I would 1) have the money that I'd want to spend to try and be a winner instead of sit on it and stay a mediocre franchise, and 2) Giles and Kendall would make the Sox a better team. So our payroll would be $60-$65M next year instead of slightly over $52M or whatever it is this year -- big wow. As far as "guaranteeing a playoff run and an increase in ticket sales", there ARE no guarantees in professional sports. But, if the Sox went out and got 2 more all-star caliber players, believe me, the fans would take notice. And if the Sox played up to their standards with the guys they'd have on that team (Colon, Buehrle, Ordonez, Thomas, Konerko, etc, etc), the wins would pile up and so would the ticket sales. And no, Jamie Navarro has nothing to do with this and it's a bad comparison because Navarro was horrible and Giles and Kendall are very solid major league players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Um, no, I'd do it because if I was Jerry Reinsdorf, I would 1) have the money that I'd want to spend to try and be a winner instead of sit on it and stay a mediocre franchise, and 2) Giles and Kendall would make the Sox a better team. So our payroll would be $60-$65M next year instead of slightly over $52M or whatever it is this year -- big wow. As far as "guaranteeing a playoff run and an increase in ticket sales", there ARE no guarantees in professional sports. But, if the Sox went out and got 2 more all-star caliber players, believe me, the fans would take notice. And if the Sox played up to their standards with the guys they'd have on that team (Colon, Buehrle, Ordonez, Thomas, Konerko, etc, etc), the wins would pile up and so would the ticket sales. And no, Jamie Navarro has nothing to do with this and it's a bad comparison because Navarro was horrible and Giles and Kendall are very solid major league players. Kendall would be an albatross around this team's neck for 4 years. Thats my Navarro reference. Kendall is a better performer than Navarro but he is double the price, definitely not worth $10 million a year, not even close.If its such a great deal, how come they can't unload Kendall on anybody?By the way, if you acquire these 2 and intend to remain competitive the next few seasons, the payroll will be around $80 million minimum. Its easy to say if you were JR you would spend all this money and risk taking a huge bath financially, because its no skin off your back if it flopped. Its too big of risk, it doesn't improve your team $18 million worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Here is the ESPN Insider about Giles. Notice who he can be traded to.. Jul. 23 - Giles told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review he would not be shocked if he's dealt by the July 31 deadline. "Not if they're losing a lot of money and they're tearing this thing down," he told the paper, which noted the outfielder has a limited no-trade clause that permits deals only to the Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, Giants, Rockies and Braves. The A's, however, still think they might have a shot at him. The San Francisco Chronicle indicates the Pirates' asking price is dropping and the team might be able to acquire Giles without surrendering one of its three so-called untouchable prospects -- P Rich Harden, OF Nick Swisher or SS Bobby Crosby. Monday, the Beaver County (Pa.) Times listed the following names as possible components of an Oakland package for Giles: Second baseman Mark Ellis and outfielder Eric Byrnes from the major-league club; right-hander Aaron Harang from Triple-A, and Class AA pitchers Shane Komine and John Rheinecker, shortstop Freddie Bynum and Swisher. The paper also indicated that Oakland might have to unload Terrance Long's contract before bringing Giles aboard, but Giles, who has a limited no-trade clause, reportedly said Sunday he was unsure he would agree to the trade. The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported over the weekend that mounting financial losses have made a Pirates fire-sale almost certain, with everyone from Giles (in the second year of a five-year, $45 million contract) to Jason Kendall (with four years, $42 million remaining on his deal) on the block. The paper also indicated the Pirates nearly had a deal that would have sent both Giles and Kendall to the Padres before changing their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Here is the ESPN Insider about Giles. Notice who he can be traded to.. Jul. 23 - Giles told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review he would not be shocked if he's dealt by the July 31 deadline. "Not if they're losing a lot of money and they're tearing this thing down," he told the paper, which noted the outfielder has a limited no-trade clause that permits deals only to the Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, Giants, Rockies and Braves. The A's, however, still think they might have a shot at him. The San Francisco Chronicle indicates the Pirates' asking price is dropping and the team might be able to acquire Giles without surrendering one of its three so-called untouchable prospects -- P Rich Harden, OF Nick Swisher or SS Bobby Crosby. Monday, the Beaver County (Pa.) Times listed the following names as possible components of an Oakland package for Giles: Second baseman Mark Ellis and outfielder Eric Byrnes from the major-league club; right-hander Aaron Harang from Triple-A, and Class AA pitchers Shane Komine and John Rheinecker, shortstop Freddie Bynum and Swisher. The paper also indicated that Oakland might have to unload Terrance Long's contract before bringing Giles aboard, but Giles, who has a limited no-trade clause, reportedly said Sunday he was unsure he would agree to the trade. The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported over the weekend that mounting financial losses have made a Pirates fire-sale almost certain, with everyone from Giles (in the second year of a five-year, $45 million contract) to Jason Kendall (with four years, $42 million remaining on his deal) on the block. The paper also indicated the Pirates nearly had a deal that would have sent both Giles and Kendall to the Padres before changing their minds. Yes, only NL teams. In fact, only the NL West + the Braves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Do you think the Braves are on the list because his brother is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Giles would be nice but Kendall would be too much cash to take......no way the deal goes down. The Yankees will not even do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Do you think the Braves are on the list because his brother is there? Either that or because they have won their division 12 years in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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