Cash for Clunkers already messed up????

[Balta1701]

Bingo. Sucking union **** again. Obama can't get enough. Unions are great. They destroy our state budgets with outrageous benefits that nobody likes to talk about, but they earn an honest wage. LOL.

[southsider2k5]

that crossed my mind too, but why base it primarily on the MPG of a car? I wonder what the companies' profits are on an SUV sale versus a normal car sale.

 

A s***load more. Which is why if this were truly environmental, they wouldn't have been in the deal at all.

[knightni]

My 18 year old car gets 25 mpg, oh well.

[Iwritecode]

Personally I don't understand why they are rewarding people for getting 2 more MPG on their SUV's. If they really cared about the environment, they would only make SUV dumping people be eligible for buying a smaller car. Perhaps if they gave someone a $6000 credit for going from an SUV/Truck to something more compact, they would get more of these gas guzzlers off the road.

 

A smaller car won't tow my trailer.

[kapkomet]

A smaller car won't tow my trailer.

You have too much money if you can afford a trailer to tow behind your vehicle. You need to give some of that back to the government so us poor people can take it from you. GIVE IT TO ME, OBAMA! NOW!

[lostfan]

GIVE IT TO ME, OBAMA! NOW!

I didn't know you swung that way kap. To each his own.

[kapkomet]

I didn't know you swung that way kap. To each his own.

You jackass.

 

[southsider2k5]

AND THIS PROGRAM IS OVA!!!

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32489561

 

'Cash-For-Clunker' Program Ending On Monday

 

The Obama administration plans to end the popular $3 billion Cash for Clunkers program on Monday at 8 p.m EDT, the Department of Transportation announced Thursday.

 

Two congressional officials familiar with the plan say the Transportation Department will wind down the program that offers car buyers rebates of $3,500 or $4,500 for trading in older vehicles for new, more fuel-efficient models.

 

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in a statement that the program has recorded more than 457,000 dealer transactions worth $1.9 billion in rebates as of Thursday.

 

Government analysts have projected there is enough money to continue accepting applications for rebates until the deadline of Monday, Aug. 24, at 8 p.m. EDT the statement said.

 

Meanwhile, the financial arms of several automakers have begun offering help to cash-strapped dealerships, in some cases by floating loans to help cover clunker-related shortfalls.

 

Woman looks at new Toyota Camry on dealer lot

 

Department officials met with car dealer trade groups on Wednesday to discuss how the program will eventually end and respond to complaints over a backlog of rebate payments to dealers.

 

Through early Wednesday, auto dealers have made deals worth $1.81 billion and are on pace to exhaust the program's $3 billion in funds in early September.

 

The incentives have generated more than 435,000 vehicle sales but dealers want a clear plan on when the rebates will no longer be available so they don't end up on the hook for any of the incentives.

 

"We want to make sure that dealers know when we're getting close" to running out of the money that was allocated for the program, LaHood told reporters.

 

LaHood said he recognized that "dealers are frustrated. They're going to get their money."

 

The National Automobile Dealers Association said its trade group met with Transportation officials to discuss dealer concerns about reimbursement delays and ways of fixing the problems.

 

NADA spokesman Charles Cyrill said the association "stressed the importance of addressing—as soon as possible—how the program will end, including the possible suspension of the program."

 

Dealers have complained of delays in getting their reimbursements approved, causing a cash crunch at their dealerships. Dealers typically borrow money to put new cars on their lots and must repay those loans within a few days of a sale.

 

"We do not know how many deals are in the pipeline. We don't know how many dollars are left in the program at this very moment," said Ted Smith, president of the Florida Automobile Dealers Association. "That's fundamental to the health of the dealerships that are participating. If you run out of money before you run out of deals, that's not a good situation."

 

Some dealers are no longer participating in the Clunker program.

 

The Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association, which represents dealerships in the New York metro area, said about half its 425 members had left the program because they cannot afford to offer more rebates.

 

Melanie Bible, spokeswoman for the Pennsylvania Automotive Association, also said about half of the state's 950 dealerships have stopped cutting new Cash for Clunkers deals.

 

She said the figure was anecdotal because no formal survey of dealers had been conducted.

 

Toyota Financial Services is offering loans to dealers for up to 60 days to cover the lag between a dealership's payment and its reimbursement. The financial-services arms of Honda Motor, Nissan Motor, Ford Motor and other automakers are offering similar programs.

 

The government's online reimbursement system was flooded with reimbursement requests shortly after the program began in late July, overwhelming the computer system and staff set up to process the deals. That led to big delays for dealers trying to file the paperwork they needed to get paid back for the rebates.

 

LaHood said some of the submitted paperwork has been incomplete or inaccurate, leading to delays.

 

He acknowledged the Transportation Department did not have enough people to process the paperwork but said DOT was ramping up staff.

 

DOT said earlier this week it was tripling its work force to handle the rebates and expected to have 1,100 workers dealing with the paperwork by the end of the week.

 

Michelle Primm, managing partner of a four-franchise dealership in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, said her store has stopped making deliveries on clunkers purchases until the sales are approved by the federal government.

 

Primm's dealership has made 31 clunkers deals since the program was launched last month, but has only been paid for 3.

 

"I've got payroll and I've got taxes to pay and all those things," she said. "We're small."

[NorthSideSox72]

AND THIS PROGRAM IS OVA!!!

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32489561

So ends an interesting chapter in the Stimulus efforts of Congress. It was a roaring success in terms of gross result, but of course, poorly executed. I'm glad they did it though. I much prefer incentives of this sort, versus cash giveaways or plain old tax cuts.

 

[southsider2k5]

So ends an interesting chapter in the Stimulus efforts of Congress. It was a roaring success in terms of gross result, but of course, poorly executed. I'm glad they did it though. I much prefer incentives of this sort, versus cash giveaways or plain old tax cuts.

 

My only bone with this program (well besides the obvious miscalculations) was that they allowed this to be applied to any car company. This program should have been kept to the big 2 US automakers. I can't believe if we are going to giveaway money, that we wouldn't make sure it saved jobs that actually can support people.

[BigSqwert]

My bone to pick was that the trade in should have been for a car with at least 5 mpg more than the one you turned in.

 

...since the vouchers were allocated largely on the basis of whether your clunker consumes less than 18 mpg and your new purchase consumes more -- such that trading in a 17-mpg car for a 19-mpg car would get you a voucher, but trading a 19-mpg for a 30-mpg one would not

Edited August 21, 2009 by BigSqwert

[NorthSideSox72]

My only bone with this program (well besides the obvious miscalculations) was that they allowed this to be applied to any car company. This program should have been kept to the big 2 US automakers. I can't believe if we are going to giveaway money, that we wouldn't make sure it saved jobs that actually can support people.

You do realize that most of the Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Subarus, heck even BMW's, are manufactured all or in part in the US, right? With US workers at US jobs?

 

[BigSqwert]

You do realize that most of the Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Subarus, heck even BMW's, are manufactured all or in part in the US, right? With US workers at US jobs?

He only cares about keeping U.S. CEOs salaries high and not ones from Japan.

[Balta1701]

He only cares about keeping U.S. CEOs salaries high and not ones from Japan.

Japanese CEO's already earn much less than ours.

[FlaSoxxJim]

My bone to pick was that the trade in should have been for a car with at least 5 mpg more than the one you turned in.

 

Agreed. My 165K mile Saturn is EPA-rated to efficient to be clunker-worthy, or else I'd be driving a new Prius right now.

Edited August 21, 2009 by FlaSoxxJim

[StrangeSox]

My bone to pick was that the trade in should have been for a car with at least 5 mpg more than the one you turned in.

 

Sliding rebate scale based on percentage improved or some other metric would have been better environmentally, imo.

[jasonxctf]

My only bone with this program (well besides the obvious miscalculations) was that they allowed this to be applied to any car company. This program should have been kept to the big 2 US automakers. I can't believe if we are going to giveaway money, that we wouldn't make sure it saved jobs that actually can support people.

 

Honda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Liberty_Auto_Plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Manufacturing_of_Alabama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marysville_Auto_Plant

Plus another in Greensburg, IN

 

Toyota

http://news.theage.com.au/business/toyota-...81101-5fov.html

 

Kia

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/worklife/07...town/index.html

 

Hyundai

http://www.hmmausa.com/

 

BMW

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=83719

 

Mercedes Benz

http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_uaw_target_mercedes/

 

VW

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...&type=autos

[southsider2k5]

You do realize that most of the Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Subarus, heck even BMW's, are manufactured all or in part in the US, right? With US workers at US jobs?

 

Very well actually because many of the steel mills here in NW IN supply them with steel. The part they don't mention is that the American auto workers compensation package dwarfs their forgein counterparts. Those jobs are also concentrated in some of the regions of the country that have been ripped apart by this recession. I believe I saw Michigan alone has something like a 20% unemployment rate right now.

[NorthSideSox72]

Very well actually because many of the steel mills here in NW IN supply them with steel. The part they don't mention is that the American auto workers compensation package dwarfs their forgein counterparts. Those jobs are also concentrated in some of the regions of the country that have been ripped apart by this recession. I believe I saw Michigan alone has something like a 20% unemployment rate right now.

Weren't you among those who were constantly stating that the American car companies were saddled with ridiculous labor contracts, that gave them those very advantages?

 

From what I've seen the pay and BASIC benefits for workers at foreign car plants in the US are very similar to those working for the Big 3. The difference is the extra crap in those labor contracts for the Big 3 - the spare engineers, the absurd pension plans, etc. Those were the big killers.

 

In any case, the point is still that you want as many jobs as possible. Therefore it would make no sense to restrict this to US companies.

 

[southsider2k5]

Weren't you among those who were constantly stating that the American car companies were saddled with ridiculous labor contracts, that gave them those very advantages?

 

From what I've seen the pay and BASIC benefits for workers at foreign car plants in the US are very similar to those working for the Big 3. The difference is the extra crap in those labor contracts for the Big 3 - the spare engineers, the absurd pension plans, etc. Those were the big killers.

 

In any case, the point is still that you want as many jobs as possible. Therefore it would make no sense to restrict this to US companies.

 

I sure was. But if we are going to be putting cash into people's pockets for "free", I'd rather have the American autoworkers benefit, the American suppliers, as well as the American stock market.

 

Honestly, if we were going to giveaway something to the auto companies, this was the lesser of evils. I am fully convinced that this will be a temporary fix that will actually hurt auto sales for half of a decade, but that is besides the point. In any case it was better than the loans we tried giving the auto companies when we all knew they were going into bankruptcy anyway.

[kapkomet]

Honda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Liberty_Auto_Plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Manufacturing_of_Alabama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marysville_Auto_Plant

Plus another in Greensburg, IN

 

Toyota

http://news.theage.com.au/business/toyota-...81101-5fov.html

 

Kia

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/worklife/07...town/index.html

 

Hyundai

http://www.hmmausa.com/

 

BMW

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=83719

 

Mercedes Benz

http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_uaw_target_mercedes/

 

VW

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...&type=autos

So? Where do the PROFITS go?

 

In the US case, except Ford now, they go to the US government. How nice!

 

[StrangeSox]

How will this hurt auto sales for the next 5 years?

[kapkomet]

How will this hurt auto sales for the next 5 years?

Because you just accelarated people who don't need cars into $4500 that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Let's face it, most "poor people" or "marginally poor people" didn't just go buy a car.

[StrangeSox]

So, basically, we front-loaded the sales we would have expected over the next 5 years into a month or two?

[kapkomet]

So, basically, we front-loaded the sales we would have expected over the next 5 years into a month or two?

I don't know about "5 years" but absolutely.

 

ETA: This also plays right into the timeline for GM and Chrysler - the government is going to say that they are doing GREAT after their reorg - LOOKIE AT WHAT WE DID... yea... ok.

Edited August 21, 2009 by kapkomet