Why did we trade Nick Swisher?

[RockRaines]

Why did we trade for him in the 1st place?

FTW

[rangercal]

Why did we trade for him in the 1st place?

 

Because Ryan Sweeny was the most overrated prospect in the White Sox organization since Jeremy Reed, and Kenny Williams knew this.

[Linnwood]

Because Ryan Sweeny was the most overrated prospect in the White Sox organization since Jeremy Reed, and Kenny Williams knew this.

 

 

I thought BA held that title?

[Allsox]

The thing that irked me about the initial post was this part:

DeWayne Wise has produced 7.1 runs created in 112 PAs.

Brian Anderson produced 17.7 runs created 205 PAs.

 

Otherwise, Swisher was a complete goof in the clubhouse and hit worse than Dwayne Wise last yr. And damn, you really had to be bad to be worse than Dwayne Wise.

 

 

[nitetrain8601]

Marquez and Nunez hopefully pan out, at least as bullpen guys, it'll be a win for us.

[Balta1701]

So that we'd have the money to trade for Peavy.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Did someone really start this discussion again?

[elrockinMT]

We didn't get anything for Swisher as it turns out

[ThunderBolt]

Everyone knows i love Swish. Trading him, especially for what we got, was an impulsive and poor choice. I imagine it was due to Ozzie and Swish having a fundamental clash in personality.

[VAfan]

I started this topic for a few reasons.

 

For one, there is praise for the Kotsay trade, but Kotsay is garbage compared to Nick Swisher, and that's saying something. And yet the Kotsay trade is designed to get someone to fill (badly) all the roles that Nick Swisher could have been filling all season.

 

For two, we've had a pathetic offense most of the year, and one of the biggest reasons is the huge hole in CF, which still isn't really filled. (Anyone for re-upping Pods? because I don't believe all the hype that Jordan Danks is ready.)

 

For three, we're only a couple games out, which means things like this could really make the difference between winning the dvision and finishing out of it. And now, with the Peavy trade, don't you think it is much more important to make the playoffs each and every year? If Peavy is back to form in September and October, having had a nice arm rest in the middle of the season, don't you think the Sox could compete in the playoffs with any team in the AL?

 

I understand Swisher was a tool. I'm NOT really saying I wanted him back. What I am saying is I wanted someone to give us his production at his position, and if we couldn't find anyone else to do that, then I would have kept Swisher.

 

The Sox still desperately need offense to compete this year. If Quentin returned to form, and Ramirez hit like he did down the stretch last year, and Pods keeps up his current pace, we might have it. But I can't stand lineups with Mark Kotsay leading off (or anywhere else in them for that matter), and DeWayne Wise as the 4th outfielder.

 

The Twins and the Tigers have done more to help themselves for THIS year at the deadline, with Peavy out several more weeks. I'm not sure we'll still be in contention when he gets back.

[lostfan]

VAfan, it's like this - the Sox originally traded Swisher on the assumption that he would be what he'd been in Oakland. He wasn't that, he was streaky and underperformed and at times was useless. His value was as low as it was going to be and Kenny sold low on him. The return we got for him was questionable at best, but his contract was about to get much more expensive. The thing is, this topic has already been visited and beat into the ground.

[southsider2k5]

I started this topic for a few reasons.

 

For one, there is praise for the Kotsay trade, but Kotsay is garbage compared to Nick Swisher, and that's saying something. And yet the Kotsay trade is designed to get someone to fill (badly) all the roles that Nick Swisher could have been filling all season.

 

For two, we've had a pathetic offense most of the year, and one of the biggest reasons is the huge hole in CF, which still isn't really filled. (Anyone for re-upping Pods? because I don't believe all the hype that Jordan Danks is ready.)

 

For three, we're only a couple games out, which means things like this could really make the difference between winning the dvision and finishing out of it. And now, with the Peavy trade, don't you think it is much more important to make the playoffs each and every year? If Peavy is back to form in September and October, having had a nice arm rest in the middle of the season, don't you think the Sox could compete in the playoffs with any team in the AL?

 

I understand Swisher was a tool. I'm NOT really saying I wanted him back. What I am saying is I wanted someone to give us his production at his position, and if we couldn't find anyone else to do that, then I would have kept Swisher.

 

The Sox still desperately need offense to compete this year. If Quentin returned to form, and Ramirez hit like he did down the stretch last year, and Pods keeps up his current pace, we might have it. But I can't stand lineups with Mark Kotsay leading off (or anywhere else in them for that matter), and DeWayne Wise as the 4th outfielder.

 

The Twins and the Tigers have done more to help themselves for THIS year at the deadline, with Peavy out several more weeks. I'm not sure we'll still be in contention when he gets back.

 

Nick Swisher is not playing CF, and he is not hitting towards the top of the order. Yeah, it turns out Pods was a better fit, how sad is that?

[greg775]

I hate to keep this thread alive, but Nick Swisher sucks.

There I said it. Never liked him; never will. Some of you hate Wise; I hate Swish. Or really dislike Swish as a player.

[ThunderBolt]

I hate to keep this thread alive, but Nick Swisher sucks.

There I said it. Never liked him; never will. Some of you hate Wise; I hate Swish. Or really dislike Swish as a player.

This is like banging my head against a brick wall. Nick Swisher does not suck, his stats do not suck, his walks do not suck, his defense doesn't suck, and his power certainly doesn't suck. What sucks is that one bad year turned half a fan base against the guy. Now, that sucks.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[CWSOX45]

Jhonny Nunez says hello. Coming to a bullpen near you soon.

 

Seriously I've seen the guy pitch, he's got a great arm.

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=471919

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

This is like banging my head against a brick wall. Nick Swisher does not suck, his stats do not suck, his walks do not suck, his defense doesn't suck, and his power certainly doesn't suck. What sucks is that one bad year turned half a fan base against the guy. Now, that sucks.

 

I love players who are afraid to swing the bat too.

[DBAHO]

If Nick Swisher would have put up last season the numbers that he has put up this season for the Yankees, and been a better influence "off the field", then Swisher would probably still be a member of the White Sox.

 

But then, Podsednik wouldn't be here, and Peavy may not be either, so there's always a lot of "what if's" in baseball.

 

Both parties moved on, and they've both done well out of it.

[WCSox]

Unfortunately, he was bad in CF,

 

I wouldn't say that he was bad in CF. He was a lot better than Mackowiak or Pods out there. Just not a good long-term solution. Quentin's transformation into a stud took away one corner OF position, and I imagine that Kenny thought that he could do better at the other (either via re-signing JD or hitting the FA market).

 

[ThunderBolt]

I love players who are afraid to swing the bat too.

Look at how many times Jim Thome has struck out. What does he add to the team? Walks, OBP and Power. These are all assets that Swish brought to the team. The problem being, in a good year, he had about 10-15 less homeruns in him then Thome, and sadly for Chicago Media and fans, he also brought an outgoing, personality with him. What does Swish have over Thome? He can play defensive priority positions in the infield and outfield.

[shakes]

Look at how many times Jim Thome has struck out. What does he add to the team? Walks, OBP and Power. These are all assets that Swish brought to the team. The problem being, in a good year, he had about 10-15 less homeruns in him then Thome, and sadly for Chicago Media and fans, he also brought an outgoing, personality with him. What does Swish have over Thome? He can play defensive priority positions in the infield and outfield.

 

He's also not nearly as productive of a bat as Thome, even in the twilight of his career. I'm not saying Swisher isn't a useful player, but he's a liability for what his contract is becoming. Not to mention, I can't stand his approach at the plate, and I don't think he's even as good as the poor stats he's put up the last couple of years.

 

[ThunderBolt]

He's also not nearly as productive of a bat as Thome, even in the twilight of his career. I'm not saying Swisher isn't a useful player, but he's a liability for what his contract is becoming. Not to mention, I can't stand his approach at the plate, and I don't think he's even as good as the poor stats he's put up the last couple of years.

What poor stats? Swisher’s had one bad year. That being for the White Sox last year. Including that year, Swisher still averages 28 homeruns, 86 RBI’s, an OBP of .356, and an OPS of .811. You can’t ask for much more from a guy who isn’t terrible at 1b, or any of the OF positions.

[DBAHO]

One thing Swisher hasn't improved on, is hitting in the clutch.

 

He has a BA/RISP of .219 and a clutch factor of -4.0.

 

But this season, he's hitting far less line drives and more flyballs, and that's translating into more power at the new Yankee Stadium.

 

I still think though, if he ever wants to get back to where he was rated a few seasons ago, that average of his needs to get back to around the .270-.280 mark, and I don't know whether he's capable of that anymore.

[ThunderBolt]

One thing Swisher hasn't improved on, is hitting in the clutch.

 

He has a BA/RISP of .219 and a clutch factor of -4.0.

 

But this season, he's hitting far less line drives and more flyballs, and that's translating into more power at the new Yankee Stadium.

 

I still think though, if he ever wants to get back to where he was rated a few seasons ago, that average of his needs to get back to around the .270-.280 mark, and I don't know whether he's capable of that anymore.

BABIP, for a lot of players is more luck oriented. Unless, you’re a fluke, BABIP can generally be thrown off by a slight tilt in offensive orientation, or as you said, just bad execution at the plate. Nothing, other than last year from Swisher is any real statistically significant suggestion that implies Swisher isn’t the same exact player he’s always been. Clutch, frankly, isn’t really a measurable statistics. It’s what your eyes tell you are clutch, and that’s a wooly distinction to have to make.

[DBAHO]

BABIP, for a lot of players is more luck oriented. Unless, you’re a fluke, BABIP can generally be thrown off by a slight tilt in offensive orientation, or as you said, just bad execution at the plate. Nothing, other than last year from Swisher is any real statistically significant suggestion that implies Swisher isn’t the same exact player he’s always been. Clutch, frankly, isn’t really a measurable statistics. It’s what your eyes tell you are clutch, and that’s a wooly distinction to have to make.

A good stat to look at is GPA, Gross Production Average.

 

06 - .293

07 - .294

08 - .242

09 - .285

 

Out of all this, I agree that Swisher is definitely better than the player we saw last season, and we probably sold low on him. But would Swisher have produced this season if Xavier Nady was healthy and the everyday RF? Would Swisher have bounced back this season if the Sox kept him?

 

So like I said before, there's a lot of "what if's", and obviously Swisher is a much better player than DeWayne Wise, there's no doubt about that. But the Sox lucked out and got Pods who has bounced back very nicely, and our OF looks pretty good ATM with Quentin-Pods-Dye, although I'll be surprised if they can all remain healthy going forward.

 

I think at least Nick realized going to the Yanks was a real last chance for him, and he's making the most of it, which is good for him.

[lostfan]

BABIP, for a lot of players is more luck oriented. Unless, you’re a fluke, BABIP can generally be thrown off by a slight tilt in offensive orientation, or as you said, just bad execution at the plate. Nothing, other than last year from Swisher is any real statistically significant suggestion that implies Swisher isn’t the same exact player he’s always been. Clutch, frankly, isn’t really a measurable statistics. It’s what your eyes tell you are clutch, and that’s a wooly distinction to have to make.

I've said this before in other threads, but BABIP for a hitter doesn't tell me anything I can't already tell by looking at generic batting average and comparing it to other years. If you look at BABIP in comparison to batting average and see the gap there's usually not some sudden wild fluctuation.