Should the White Sox trade Jenks and try to sign Webb, too?

[Dick Allen]

His new deal calls for him to receive $12 million annually. Chicago agreed to a limited no-trade clause that states he can't be dealt to six specified teams without his permission.

Konerko is a 5/10 guy, he has a full no trade. Dye will be in the same boat if he is a White Sox next season.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Dick Allen

[thedoctor]

I wouldnt touch him with a 10 foot pole coming off this surgery. Shoulder surgeries are baaaaad, pitchers rarely seem to rebound to their original form

 

agreed.

 

pass.

[knightni]

I remember in 1997 with Roberto Hernandez, we went through Bill Simas, Matt Karchner, Bobby Howry, Keith Foulke, Tom Gordon, Damaso Marte, Billy Koch, Shingo Takatsu and Dustin Hermanson before we got another good closer in Jenks. In fact, there was a deluge of semi-questionable closers prior to Bobby Thigpen like Bob James, Ron Reed, Dennis Lamp, Salome Barojas, Ed Farmer, Mike Proly, Lerrin LaGrow, Jim Willoughby, and Dave Hamilton.

 

 

 

[iamshack]

I remember in 1997 with Roberto Hernandez, we went through Bill Simas, Matt Karchner, Bobby Howry, Keith Foulke, Tom Gordon, Damaso Marte, Billy Koch, Shingo Takatsu and Dustin Hermanson before we got another good closer in Jenks. In fact, there was a deluge of semi-questionable closers prior to Bobby Thigpen like Bob James, Ron Reed, Dennis Lamp, Salome Barojas, Ed Farmer, Mike Proly, Lerrin LaGrow, Jim Willoughby, and Dave Hamilton.

Impressive (in my best Darth Vadar voice)

[Jordan4life_2007]

I remember in 1997 with Roberto Hernandez, we went through Bill Simas, Matt Karchner, Bobby Howry, Keith Foulke, Tom Gordon, Damaso Marte, Billy Koch, Shingo Takatsu and Dustin Hermanson before we got another good closer in Jenks. In fact, there was a deluge of semi-questionable closers prior to Bobby Thigpen like Bob James, Ron Reed, Dennis Lamp, Salome Barojas, Ed Farmer, Mike Proly, Lerrin LaGrow, Jim Willoughby, and Dave Hamilton.

 

Yup. People better be careful what they wish for.

[Chet Lemon]

I remember in 1997 with Roberto Hernandez, we went through Bill Simas, Matt Karchner, Bobby Howry, Keith Foulke, Tom Gordon, Damaso Marte, Billy Koch, Shingo Takatsu and Dustin Hermanson before we got another good closer in Jenks. In fact, there was a deluge of semi-questionable closers prior to Bobby Thigpen like Bob James, Ron Reed, Dennis Lamp, Salome Barojas, Ed Farmer, Mike Proly, Lerrin LaGrow, Jim Willoughby, and Dave Hamilton.

 

Foulke was actually an excellent pitcher during his White Sox tenure--mostly during the heyday of the steriod era. He put up very comparable numbers to Jenks.

 

Foulke's White Sox stats: 0.84 HR/9, 2.11 BB/9, 8.71 K/9, 0.98 WHIP

Jenks' MLB numbers: 0.60 HR/9, 2.90 BB/9, 8.60 K/9, 1.17 WHIP

[RockRaines]

Jenks should not be traded, it would be an extremely dumb move at this juncture. Webb should be a target of the Sox in the offseason, but I really think we will be targeting a bat with our money and not an arm as I think the club thinks we can fill that need from within.

[knightni]

Foulke was actually an excellent pitcher during his White Sox tenure--mostly during the heyday of the steriod era. He put up very comparable numbers to Jenks.

 

Foulke's White Sox stats: 0.84 HR/9, 2.11 BB/9, 8.71 K/9, 0.98 WHIP

Jenks' MLB numbers: 0.60 HR/9, 2.90 BB/9, 8.60 K/9, 1.17 WHIP

Foulke wasn't a power closer like Hernandez or Jenks though.

[Dick Allen]

Foulke wasn't a power closer like Hernandez or Jenks though.

His k rate and WHIP were pretty impressive with the Sox.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

AJP is one of the least appreciated players on this board.

Quoted for truth.

[caulfield12]

Marte might have beeen our closer for a couple of weeks, at most.

 

And Gordon wasn't IT for very long either, that season.

 

You forgot to mention Bill James, he had some very decent years with the White Sox, especially 1983.

[caulfield12]

Quoted for truth.

 

 

I'll vote for Getz and Carrasco, and D. Wise, just to aggravate everyone completely.

[WCSox]

Foulke was actually an excellent pitcher during his White Sox tenure--mostly during the heyday of the steriod era. He put up very comparable numbers to Jenks.

 

Foulke was outstanding. But, man, we had some serious crap between him and Roberto Hernandez. The position was a revolving door between those two, followed by more instability between Foulke and Jenks.

 

 

[knightni]

Marte might have beeen our closer for a couple of weeks, at most.

 

And Gordon wasn't IT for very long either, that season.

 

You forgot to mention Bill James, he had some very decent years with the White Sox, especially 1983.

 

Gordon had the most saves in 2003 and Marte was in double digits.

 

Bob James was his name; and yes, I did include him - he was the main closer in 1985 and parts of '86 and '87.

 

I remember in 1997 with Roberto Hernandez, we went through Bill Simas, Matt Karchner, Bobby Howry, Keith Foulke, Tom Gordon, Damaso Marte, Billy Koch, Shingo Takatsu and Dustin Hermanson before we got another good closer in Jenks. In fact, there was a deluge of semi-questionable closers prior to Bobby Thigpen like Bob James, Ron Reed, Dennis Lamp, Salome Barojas, Ed Farmer, Mike Proly, Lerrin LaGrow, Jim Willoughby, and Dave Hamilton.

 

Dennis Lamp and Salome Barojas were the Sox's closers in '83.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1983.shtml

[Lemon_44]

after Garko flames out in SF this year, work a trade with the Giants for Konerko. Do a package revolving around Konerko for Brian Wilson,Jonathon Sanchez from SF.

[caulfield12]

Gordon had the most saves in 2003 and Marte was in double digits.

 

Bob James was his name; and yes, I did include him - he was the main closer in 1985 and parts of '86 and '87.

 

 

 

Dennis Lamp and Salome Barojas were the Sox's closers in '83.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1983.shtml

 

Isn't Salome Bajoras dead? Or was it Ernesto Escarregga or something like that who died?

 

Joe DeSa...one of them or two.

[Lemon_44]

Isn't Salome Bajoras dead? Or was it Ernesto Escarregga or something like that who died?

 

Joe DeSa...one of them or two.

 

maybe Francisco Barrios

[beck72]

I'll say no to trading Jenks. The sox don't have a viable replacement and trading for one would likely be steep in terms of talent. With guys like Thornton, Carrasco and Pena pretty cheap, the sox can pay Jenks his next $5+ mill arb. number

 

I say no to Webb. The sox 5th SP should come from within the sox org, like Torres, Hudson.

 

Paulie has shown when healthy what he can do. He's having a very good year at the plate and in the field.

 

AJ also brings more to the sox than most people realize-both on the field and off.

[witesoxfan]

Foulke wasn't a power closer like Hernandez or Jenks though.

 

Neither was Trevor Hoffman, who Foulke had always compared very favorably to until injuries ended his career.

 

after Garko flames out in SF this year, work a trade with the Giants for Konerko. Do a package revolving around Konerko for Brian Wilson,Jonathon Sanchez from SF.

 

Yuck. A guy throws a no-hitter and suddenly he becomes a valued property. Atleast Buerhle has about a decade of experience under his belt. I want no part of Jonathan Sanchez and I think he's destined for a bullpen somewhere down the road.

[Lemon_44]

Yuck. A guy throws a no-hitter and suddenly he becomes a valued property. Atleast Buerhle has about a decade of experience under his belt. I want no part of Jonathan Sanchez and I think he's destined for a bullpen somewhere down the road.

i was actually going to add that Sanchez may become more valuble as a late inning bullpen arm. There's nothing wrong with that. Heck, keep Jenks and have a bullpen of Linebrink, Sanchez, Thornton, Wilson, and Bobby. That's pretty strong.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

So for all the people who want to keep Jenks. I'll say upfront Jenks is a good closer and I don't mind him. I do mind his potential salary and his declining ability/performance.

 

I am curious though. He comes out next year and puts up this same season or worse.

 

Shows the same declining stuff and we are paying him 7-10 mil, then maybe looking at paying him more the following year because we let him rack up 35 more saves with a 4+ era.

 

He is worth it why? Cuz he is a body who had a few good years for us? Eventually you need to perform.

 

I dont get how we didnt find anyone? Howry pitchd great in 98 or 99 and was passed up by Foulke, who was a phenomal closer for us. And had we not dealt him, he probably would've continued to do well.

 

He hit a slump in May or June or whatever that year - and we removed him. Dealt his 6 mil due to Oakland for a Flame thrower in the offseason who came into the league dominating but lost his stuff (sounds similar to what we have).

 

It seems like everyone is acting like we couldn't find a good closer from Roberto til Jenks but reality is - Howry did great and only was removed because Foulke was better suited. Foulke pitched great until his slip up in May where Kenny paniced and went for the glamour guy in Koch. I remember all of this vividly. haha cuz I remember Foulke ended the season with like 25 scoreless innings and I didnt get why we were dealing him.

 

Koch imploded for us upon arrival. I dont want to think about him. I get angry.

 

I just dont quite comprehend it all. Jenks is a good closer but how good is he when he will be making 8-10 million and putting up 4+ era when we can physically see that he isn't the same pitcher. I'm cool with giving him another shot and keeping him around but interms of the "if" factor - that being "if he continues to perform as he is" then what? Cuz his price will be high and his value will be lower. Lower when you consider his health concerns, his salary and his lackluster performance.

 

Now if he bounces back and earns his 8 million - I still say trade him cuz then he'll want 12 million the next year.

 

There are plenty of closers out there who can give us his performance minus the salary and health concerns. Go sign one.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar

[WCSox]

So for all the people who want to keep Jenks.

 

I am curious. He comes out next year and puts up this same season or worse.

 

Let's wait until Jenks is actually healthy before projecting that he will pitch just as poorly next year without kidney stones.

 

I dont get how we didnt find anyone? Howry pitchd great in 98 or 99 and was passed up by Foulke, who was a phenomal closer for us. And had we not dealt him, he probably would've continued to do well.

 

Bill Simas got the vast majority of the save opportunities in '98. When Howry was given that role the next year, he put up a 1.42 WHIP, which is f'n awful for a closer.

 

He hit a slump in May or June or whatever that year - and we removed him. Dealt his 6 mil due to Oakland for a Flame thrower in the offseason who came into the league dominating but lost his stuff (sounds similar to what we have).

 

The comparison of Jenks to Koch is completely off-base. Koch, like Howry, had nothing but a 97 mph fastball, and was completely ineffective when he lost velocity. Jenks throws two offspeed pitches for strikes (and has recently developed a change with tailing motion). Jenks doesn't need to consistently throw in the upper 90's to be effective.

 

There are plenty of closers out there. Go sign one.

 

LOL, yeah, effective closers grow on trees. Just look at Bob Howry and Matt Karchner.

Edited August 4, 2009 by WCSox

[Pumpkin Escobar]

Let's wait until Jenks is actually healthy before projecting that he will pitch just as poorly next year without kidney stones.

 

 

 

Bill Simas got the vast majority of the save opportunities in '98. When Howry was given that role the next year, he put up a 1.42 WHIP, which is f'n awful for a closer.

 

 

 

LOL, yeah, effective closers grow on trees. Just look at Bob Howry and Matt Karchner.

 

The Kidney stone thing is too funny. Kidney stones take out closers ability to pitch as soon as he starts struggling. Its an excuse. If he has them - he had them for a while.

 

I said 98 or 99 - I couldnt quite remember the year but I am glad you had time to go look it up and check out stats. 1.42 whip was his poor stat. Jenks is up around 1.3, not 1.42 but he has a BAA 50 points higher than howry, a higher ERA, more blown saves, and almost as many losses in half the games....See why picking out one stat is so dumb? Because there are 5 others that say he outperformed a guy who you think is the holy one.

 

And closers with a 4.2 era and 1.3 whip do grow on trees. Now ones who have a screw in their arm, make 8 million, have a fastball down about 5mph while only in their prime and have an following similar to Jesus...Those don't grow on trees.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar

[WCSox]

The Kidney stone thing is too funny. Kidney stones take out closers ability to pitch as soon as he starts struggling. Its an excuse. If he has them - he had them for a while.

 

I said 98 or 99 - I couldnt quite remember the year but I am glad you had time to go look it up and check out stats. 1.42 whip was his poor stat. Jenks is up around 1.3, not 1.42 but he has a BAA 50 points higher than howry, a higher ERA, more blown saves, and almost as many losses in half the games....See why picking out one stat is so dumb? Because there are 5 others that say he outperformed a guy who you think is the holy one.

 

And closers with a 4.2 era and 1.3 whip do grow on trees. Now ones who have a screw in their arm, make 8 million, have a fastball down about 5mph while only in their prime and have an following similar to Jesus...Those don't grow on trees.

 

Your posts are as insulting as they are illogical. Go away.

Edited August 4, 2009 by WCSox

[Pumpkin Escobar]

Your posts are as insulting as they are illogical. Go away.

 

When you reply to someone with "LOL, Yeah"

 

Commonly taken as insulting and sarcastic...You get what you deserve.

 

And if you disagree - then don't try and pretend to put down a simple argument by pulling out 1 stat in the line of a million. Howry pitched very well for us that year - better then Jenks has in 2 different season.

 

Jenks has become a folk hero because of the method, the time and the way he came up with us.

 

Eventually that needs to go out the window and we need to remove who he is and look at the player. The player is declining and is getting expensive and is bad for business if he can help us improve other ways moreso then staying and being paid handsomely to be medicore.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Pumpkin Escobar