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Impact of Thome's avg drop?


Princess Dye

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QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 10:10 PM)
He has like a .410 OBP. I'm not worried about his average at all.

You're right on with this. Batting Average is a meaningless statistic for a player like Jim Thome. He’s still getting On Base at a spectacular rate.

Edited by Thunderbolt
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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 09:47 PM)
We'll see if the K-rate and SLG we get out of the cleanup spot is enough for this year. Would love to be proven wrong.

 

Thome has been a member of the Sox for 3 and a half seasons. In those years, the Sox have won 90, 72, and 89 games. I believe you have already been proven wrong.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 10:50 PM)
Thome has been a member of the Sox for 3 and a half seasons. In those years, the Sox have won 90, 72, and 89 games. I believe you have already been proven wrong.

 

Lets do an average of what that comes out to as wins-per-year. Then adjust for the kind of competition in Central vs. East.

 

As I stated earlier, my goal is to be better than that. It would be good to be like one of those East teams. If yr perfectly happy being what we've been the last few yrs, then I would not expect you to agree.

 

 

 

 

As far as the Balta list of pitchers, it's a good illustration of his point, yet it highlights all the mediocre names that Thome also is unable to get hits against. Found it shocking, and still believe in my point about wanting more cleanup hitter production.

 

Again, I'm not saying JT off the team. Saying that based on what our payroll is, we need a different type of cleanup hitter. And I think we may have a solution in-house, as I've listed - but few seem to be fans of it.

 

 

 

To those disagreeing with me, I again am not calling the current situation awful. But I do want better and I'll just hope to god we dont have pitchers adjusting their willingness to pitch to Thome in this home stretch.

Edited by Princess Dye
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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 10:58 PM)
Lets do an average of what that comes out to as wins-per-year. Then adjust for the kind of competition in Central vs. East.

 

As I stated earlier, my goal is to be better than that. It would be good to be like one of those East teams. If yr perfectly happy being what we've been the last few yrs, then I would not expect you to agree.

 

 

 

 

As far as the Balta list of pitchers, it's a good illustration of his point, yet it highlights all the mediocre names that Thome also is unable to get hits against. Found it shocking, and still believe in my point about wanting more cleanup hitter production.

 

Again, I'm not saying JT off the team. Saying that based on what our payroll is, we need a different type of cleanup hitter. And I think we may have a solution in-house, as I've listed - but few seem to be fans of it.

 

 

 

To those disagreeing with me, I again am not calling the current situation awful. But I do want better and I'll just hope to god we dont have pitchers adjusting their willingness to pitch to Thome in this home stretch.

Thome gets on base nearly 40% of the time. That means almost 40% of the time, he's not making an out. That doesn't even mention his power, which is incredibly underrated around these parts. What more do you want?

 

If you can improve on that, while not hurting the team financially or parting with plus prospects, then you're a genius.

Edited by Felix
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The question is relevant because at the end of the year, the sox have to decide upon Thome or Dye for DH next year and beyond. Do you go with Thome's OBP, or Dye's higher avg, factoring in the age difference, and the sox lack of Lefty power hitters?

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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 10:00 PM)
well since 07 that is

 

Wrong. It's higher than last year.

 

 

Obviously we all like the OBP, but with his specific spot in the lineup, you need a little more handiness with the bat than he's providing.

 

No you don't. His job as the cleanup hitter is to drive in runs. He has the third most RBI on the team and the best RBI per AB rate (around 4.3). He's also third in HR, first in OBP and second in OPS. He also is a left handed bat to break up Beckham, Dye, Konerko and Quentin.

 

How much has it hurt us?

 

Clearly, it hasn't.

 

Also who here would advocate lowering him in the lineup?

 

Probably just you.

 

Seriously, this argument is ridiculous. You're trying to point to Thome's low BA. You can't just look at that for a player like Thome. He's doing fine right now for us, stop complaining for the sake of it.

Edited by ChiSox_Sonix
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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 09:26 PM)
My point should have been the following, said more simply: I dont want my cleanup hitter's best attribute to be drawing walks.

 

Why not? Should Thome move up to #3 in the order then?

 

I fail to see how drawing walks is a bad thing. If nothing else, it just means more guys on base for the #5 guy, Konerko, who seems fully capable of driving in runs.

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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 10:00 PM)
well since 07 that is

 

 

 

 

Obviously we all like the OBP, but with his specific spot in the lineup, you need a little more handiness with the bat than he's providing.

 

 

How much has it hurt us?

Also who here would advocate lowering him in the lineup?

 

 

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 4, 2009 -> 10:26 PM)
I definitely tripped over myself on that line.

 

 

 

 

My point should have been the following, said more simply: I dont want my cleanup hitter's best attribute to be drawing walks.

 

 

 

 

SLG is on the decline as well, each year he's been here, again with the biggest drop off being post 07.

 

Yup, Jim Thome needs to be dropped down in the order no question. I'm sold.

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QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 5, 2009 -> 09:11 PM)
you guys can thank me for Gavin. At least when I criticized him his ERA was one of the worst in the majors, not like Thome's OPS.

 

Where does Thome ranks amongst DH's in offensive categories?

Robin Ventura's best season with the Sox he hit 34 homers and drove in 105 with a .368 OBP. Thome is on pace for 32 homers 107 RBI and a .392 OBP and every other week there are 20 posts mentioning his demise and how the Sox must get rid of him. I guess some must keep posting these ridiculous thoughts because he is pushing 40 and some day they will be right.

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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 5, 2009 -> 09:26 PM)
Actually the HR-or-nothing aspect to this debate is left untouched bytonight :)

 

There was no debate. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that Thome is Homerun/walk/strikeout for the most part.

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 5, 2009 -> 09:33 PM)
There was no debate. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that Thome is Homerun/walk/strikeout for the most part.

This season Thome has as many doubles as Alexei Ramirez in far fewer PA.

 

Jim Thome does everything but hit singles.

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