Pods

[rangercal]

Out of all the spots you could throw Figgins at, I don't see the what's so bad about having both. Assuming the price is right.

[rockren]

God I hate Cowley. And no offense to Pods, but if it's between those two, I'll take Figgins anyday of the week.

 

Figgins is going to cost a truck load.

 

I think Pods may be a good bridge CF until Danks is ready. Perhaps Mitchell will turn the corner quicker than people think...just watching him makes me drool.

[iamshack]

God I hate Cowley. And no offense to Pods, but if it's between those two, I'll take Figgins anyday of the week.

You would?

 

So if you could have Podsednik for 1 year and $4 million or Figgins and 3/$27 or 4/$36, would you still go with Figgins?

[SoxFan1]

You would?

 

So if you could have Podsednik for 1 year and $4 million or Figgins and 3/$27 or 4/$36, would you still go with Figgins?

If we're getting the .300 AVG/.400 OBP Figgins, then yes, I'd want him.

[rockren]

You would?

 

So if you could have Podsednik for 1 year and $4 million or Figgins and 3/$27 or 4/$36, would you still go with Figgins?

 

Point made.

 

I believe we could bring Pods back for even less than that.

[SoxAce]

You would?

 

So if you could have Podsednik for 1 year and $4 million or Figgins and 3/$27 or 4/$36, would you still go with Figgins?

 

I meant as far as the player. Obviously if $$ is in the equation it'll be different though I still would consider Figgins, as I think Pods is just having a crazy, fluke year personally.

[SoxAce]

If we're getting the .300 AVG/.400 OBP Figgins, then yes, I'd want him.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[DaveBrown85]

Found this on espn mlb rumors. Just because he hasn't been a superstar player doesn't mean he cant say he'd like to stay with the team he's with. I'll take him back for next year but wouldn't mind seeing someone waiting in the wings.

Scott Podsednik has enjoyed a career revival with the White Sox this season, hitting 50 points better than he did with the Rockies in 2008.

A free agent after the season, Podsednik told MLB.com he not mind re-signing with the White Sox for 2010.

"You can't help but think about your family and career and the business side of it," said Podsednik, who hit a game winning homer on Tuesday.

 

Podzilla can only hope the Sox keep him NO BIG DEAL FOR PODS | "He's 33 and boasts a career .273/.339/.377 slash line -- it would be OK with solid defensive play, but Podsednik rates as an average corner outfielder and below average center fielder. So Podsednik is lucky to have a full-time starting gig, and he hasn't produced nearly enough to be making statements about where he 'wouldn't mind' signing. At the end of the season, the offers may roll in for a fourth outfielder role but he should not be expecting a lucrative offer and guaranteed starting duty." - Eric Seidman

FOURTH OUTFIELDER? | Podzilla can say what he pleases about where he'd like to be, but his production (.265 EqA) is still below the position average (.269), and he's not a great defender in center. If carrying him as a reserve is something the Sox can make space for, sure, but he's at best an insurance policy should next year's solution in center fails as badly as this year's initial DeWayne Wise/Brian Anderson platoon. - Christina Kahrl

[iamshack]

If we're getting the .300 AVG/.400 OBP Figgins, then yes, I'd want him.

 

Unfortunately, there's no way to know that.

He's put up numbers like that in one season before this one, and now this season.

 

For his career, he is a .750 OPS player, and you're talking about signing him for his age 33-35/36 years, so I'm not certain you'll be getting the 35-40 sb's that have been coming along with that.

 

It's not that I don't think he is a solid player. I just think you can plug the gaps from year to year at a fraction of the cost instead of moving Chone around.

Edited August 6, 2009 by iamshack

[SoxFan1]

Unfortunately, there's no way to know that.

He's put up numbers like that in one season before this one, and now this season.

 

For his career, he is a .750 OPS player, and you're talking about signing him for his age 33-35/36 years, so I'm not certain you'll be getting the 35-40 sb's that have been coming along with that.

 

It's not that I don't think he is a solid player. I just think you can plug the gaps from year to year instead of moving Chone around.

He's 31 now (1/22/78), so assuming we sign him this off-season to a 3 year deal, we have him for 32, 33, and 34. Even at his career averages, he's a .360 OBP player, which is pretty good for a lead-off man. And most guys' plate discipline doesn't decrease as they get older, it increases. I don't think it's out of the realm of reality to get .300/.375 out of him for those 3 years with 30 steals.

[iamshack]

He's 31 now (1/22/78), so assuming we sign him this off-season to a 3 year deal, we have him for 32, 33, and 34. Even at his career averages, he's a .360 OBP player, which is pretty good for a lead-off man. And most guys' plate discipline doesn't decrease as they get older, it increases. I don't think it's out of the realm of reality to get .300/.375 out of him for those 3 years with 30 steals.

 

Yeah, you may be right.

I guess I just don't see that as much of a need anymore now with the emergence of some younger, faster players. I'll take the risk of keeping Pods around at a fraction of the cost and hope Jordan Danks or Jared Mitchell can be ready for 2011.

[SoxFan1]

So am I. If it were up to the other half, most of the 2005 team would still be here, and this would be a 75 win club.

 

 

Counting on Pods for anything next season would be a mistake. His career has been a huge roller coaster, and if Williams plans on fielding a championship contendor next season, trusting Pods to anchor the lead off spot for the entire 2010 seaon is not a bet I would want to make.

 

When Chone gets brought up, critics seem to jump on his age, and given his presumable contract demands, you will have to lock him up until he is 34-35 years old. I agree that would be a bad investment. With that said, Podsednik will enter the season as 34 year old below average OF with a history of having nagging lower body injuries. Again, not someone I want my team to count on in getting the most AB's over the course of a season.

That's an excellent point. If we're looking to contend for a championship in the next couple years, you need consistency and durability throughout the roster. IMO, Figgins on a 3 year deal is well worth it and would solidify the position for a while. If anything, Mitchell or maybe even Danks could become valuable trade-chips if Figgins plays well.

[SoxAce]

So am I. If it were up to the other half, most of the 2005 team would still be here, and this would be a 75 win club.

 

 

Counting on Pods for anything next season would be a mistake. His career has been a huge roller coaster, and if Williams plans on fielding a championship contendor next season, trusting Pods to anchor the lead off spot for the entire 2010 seaon is not a bet I would want to make.

 

When Chone gets brought up, critics seem to jump on his age, and given his presumable contract demands, you will have to lock him up until he is 34-35 years old. I agree that would be a bad investment. With that said, Podsednik will enter the season as 34 year old below average OF with a history of having nagging lower body injuries. Again, not someone I want my team to count on in getting the most AB's over the course of a season.

 

Preach. 100% agreed.

[iamshack]

So am I. If it were up to the other half, most of the 2005 team would still be here, and this would be a 75 win club.

 

 

Counting on Pods for anything next season would be a mistake. His career has been a huge roller coaster, and if Williams plans on fielding a championship contendor next season, trusting Pods to anchor the lead off spot for the entire 2010 seaon is not a bet I would want to make.

 

When Chone gets brought up, critics seem to jump on his age, and given his presumable contract demands, you will have to lock him up until he is 34-35 years old. I agree that would be a bad investment. With that said, Podsednik will enter the season as 34 year old below average OF with a history of having nagging lower body injuries. Again, not someone I want my team to count on in getting the most AB's over the course of a season.

 

You simply cannot treat this as a situation where "everything else being equal."

 

This is not a debate about who is the better baseball player.

 

This has to do with the team's budget, the team's short and long-term future, etc.

 

And when you take those things into account, I don't see us losing anything by signing Podsednik to a few million dollar deal.

 

Why some here think we are going to be able to bring in easily the answer to all our prayers at the leadoff spot when we haven't been able to do so in the last several years despite not having ANY options, and that we would instead make the critical mistake of "counting" on Podsednik rather than luring in Captain Leadoff himself seems just crazy to me.

 

 

[iamshack]

Sorry, but Williams inablitly to find a true, stable lead off hitter during his tenure shouldn't be an excuess for not being able to find one for next season. That just doesn't work for me.

 

What Podsednik has done this year has been incredible. He has been this teams MVP since the time he got here. On top of it, I wouldn't mind bringing Podsednik back next season. HOWEVER, just penciling him into CF and the lead spot next season is an incredibly risky proposition for a team that wants to win next year.

 

 

Also, you mention this team not being able to find a true hitter for the lead off spot in quite some time. With Contreras, Dotel, and probably one of Thome or Dye off the books, why not spend some extra money on Figgins. I said it earlier he wouldn't be the best investment, and obviously I stand by it, but Kenny has set this team up again to WIN NOW. We have all seen how hard it is to find a lead off hitter, and also how important they can be.

 

Even with his age becoming a factor, I like my chances a lot better with Figgins than I do with Podsednik.

 

Can you list for the number of true, stable leadoff hitters that have changed teams in the last several years? Their just aren't many in the league, and the few that there are, certainly are not moving around often. It is not an "inability" to find one. It is an "inability" to find one at a reasonable cost. I refuse to be one of these people who place blame on the guy for not getting an asset that hardly seems to exist.

 

As for Podsednik, it has become quite clear over the years that I have been here that you are not a fan. I understand that. I gave up attempting to convince you of his value to this team quite a long time ago. And yet, it is difficult to deny what the poster earlier stated. 'When Podsednik is healthy, we win.' Well, I understand there are health risks involved, but for the years and the money, the risk is very small.

 

On the other hand, signing Figgins requires a much longer commitment. While we all want to talk about all the money coming off the books, we just spent 40% of it on Peavy. Combine that with salary escalations and the need to pay guys like Danks and Quentin in the future, and there is not as much money there as appears to be.

 

Considering we have invested high picks and $ in players to fill exactly the position Figgins would fill, it would seem to be foolish to acquire the services of someone who is on the wrong side of thirty and depends on his legs as much as Figgins. Make all the arguments you want about Podsednik, but the reality of the situation is, many of them apply to Figgins as well.

 

I just don't believe the $ and the years required to sign Figgins being worth it even the best-case scenario.

Meanwhile, the worst-case scenario with Podsednik doesn't really put us in any worse scenario than we were coming into this season.

Edited August 6, 2009 by iamshack

[SoxFan1]

Can you list for the number of true, stable leadoff hitters that have changed teams in the last several years? Their just aren't many in the league, and the few that there are, certainly are not moving around often. It is not an "inability" to find one. It is an "inability" to find one at a reasonable cost. I refuse to be one of these people who place blame on the guy for not getting an asset that hardly seems to exist.

 

As for Podsednik, it has become quite clear over the years that I have been here that you are not a fan. I understand that. I gave up attempting to convince you of his value to this team quite a long time ago. And yet, it is difficult to deny what the poster earlier stated. 'When Podsednik is healthy, we win.' Well, I understand there are health risks involved, but for the years and the money, the risk is very small.

 

On the other hand, signing Figgins requires a much longer commitment. While we all want to talk about all the money coming off the books, we just spent 40% of it on Peavy. Combine that with salary escalations and the need to pay guys like Danks and Quentin in the future, and there is not as much money there as appears to be.

 

Considering we have invested high picks and $ in players to fill exactly the position Figgins would fill, it would seem to be foolish to acquire the services of someone who is on the wrong side of thirty and depends on his legs as much as Figgins. Make all the arguments you want about Podsednik, but the reality of the situation is, many of them apply to Figgins as well.

 

I just don't believe the $ and the years required to sign Figgins being worth it even the best-case scenario.

Meanwhile, the worst-case scenario with Podsednik doesn't really put us in any worse scenario than we were coming into this season.

You're telling me that 3 years of .400 OBP from Figgins in the leadoff spot for 8 mil isn't worth it?

[iamshack]

You're telling me that 3 years of .400 OBP from Figgins in the leadoff spot for 8 mil isn't worth it?

There is absolutely no statistical evidence to suggest that is what we'll get. Figgins has a career .360 OBP and prior to the 100ish games of this season, he has had only 1 season in his career where he has reached base at a .400 clip. Why should we expect a .400 OBP for all 3 years of this hypothetical deal?

[SoxFan1]

There is absolutely no statistical evidence to suggest that is what we'll get. Figgins has a career .360 OBP and prior to the 100ish games of this season, he has had only 1 season in his career where he has reached base at a .400 clip. Why should we expect a .400 OBP for all 3 years of this hypothetical deal?

First and foremost, you NEVER know what you're going to get with any player, ever. Period. This line of thinking is senseless. We could go out and sign someone to be a 5th starter and he could end up being Cy Young (Esteban Loaiza) or we could go and get a stud and have him fall flat on his face. There are no guarantees with anything so no matter what happens, we never know what we're going to get. Otherwise, the word consistency never would be used in sports.

 

Second, I never guaranteed that Figgins would do that. You stated: I just don't believe the $ and the years required to sign Figgins being worth it even the best-case scenario.

 

My response was that $8 mil a year for a .300 average and .400 OBP would be a best case scenario, and it'd be pretty damn worth it. If it comes down to it, Pods at 4 million or Figgins at 8 is a no-brainer to me. I'd gladly spend the extra 4 million for a younger, faster player who will give you better D and has a higher probable production than the other option.

[iamshack]

There is absolutely no statistical evidence to suggest that is what we'll get. Figgins has a career .360 OBP and prior to the 100ish games of this season, he has had only 1 season in his career where he has reached base at a .400 clip. Why should we expect a .400 OBP for all 3 years of this hypothetical deal?

Edit: I assume you were referring to my "best case scenario" statement. To clarify, no, I do not believe the potential extra .40 in OBP to be worth the extra $22 million or so, no. I would much rather take my chances signing Pods for 1 year and following him up with Danks/Mitchell...

[SoxAce]

One fluke season from Pods and people are wetting their tampons? Jesus. Where's my boy hammerhead johnson.

Edited August 6, 2009 by SoxAce

[rockren]

One fluke season from Pods and people are wetting their tampons? Jesus.

 

I agree people are high on something if they act as if Pods is the answer beyond this year, but I do agree with the fact Pods may not be a bad option to hold down our leadoff spot/CF for the short term with what we have waiting in the minors.

[SoxAce]

I agree people are high on something if they act as if Pods is the answer beyond this year, but I do agree with the fact Pods may not be a bad option to hold down our leadoff spot/CF for the short term with what we have waiting in the minors.

 

If Jordan Danks was hitting well in AA, or say hit well enough to get promoted to AAA (ala Gartrell/Flowers) than yes, I would agree, but he's still striking out alot, and he's been in a slump. Either he has to pick it up this year to finish strong, or he might need an extra year beyond 2010 to make it/still view him highly.

[rockren]

If Jordan Danks was hitting well in AA, or say hit well enough to get promoted to AAA (ala Gartrell/Flowers) than yes, I would agree, but he's still striking out alot, and he's been in a slump. Either he has to pick it up this year to finish strong, or he might need an extra year beyond 2010 to make it/still view him highly.

 

Agreed. However with the chance of Danks being invited to Spring Training next year and opening eyes and Mitchell perhaps shooting through the system last next year...

 

I just don't see how we can shell out $30 million plus to Figgins.

[SoxFan1]

Edit: I assume you were referring to my "best case scenario" statement. To clarify, no, I do not believe the potential extra .40 in OBP to be worth the extra $22 million or so, no. I would much rather take my chances signing Pods for 1 year and following him up with Danks/Mitchell...

Well, the difference in our opinions then stems from your high expectations for Danks and/or Mitchell. If you think they're going to come in as rookies and just take over the lead-off role and play CF, then you need to re-think your position. As good as Danks has been, he's still only hitting .275 in AA with a .366 OBP. He's drawing a good amount of walks, but his hitting has cooled a ton and his strike out rate is still way too high. As far as Mitchell, he's only be in the fold for a few weeks, so it's very hard to set a timetable for him.

[SoxFan1]

I agree people are high on something if they act as if Pods is the answer beyond this year, but I do agree with the fact Pods may not be a bad option to hold down our leadoff spot/CF for the short term with what we have waiting in the minors.

I don't think anyone is saying that Pods for 1 year while waiting on Danks/Mitchell is a BAD option, just that there is a better sense of durability and consistency in Figgins, who many think is a BETTER option.