Does Kenny have his eye on Wagner?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...from_tommy.html

 

At least one American League contender already appears intrigued by the possibility of acquiring Wagner, who had 27 saves and a 2.30 before getting hurt last year, assuming the former closer can demonstrate he's back to form.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...l#ixzz0NVyrpEVU

 

The first thing I thought of reading this is that it's probably Kenny. Kenny has tried to get Wagner before (and Kenny usually he gets his guy, even if it comes after his target's prime) and he was also looking for a power lefty reliever before the deadline. Plus Kenny isn't afraid to deal for a player on the DL and he has also dealt with Minaya earlier this year. I wonder if Kenny is that one contender? Wagner will be back in September and shouldn't cost anything much in prospects with the Mets picking up most of his salary. He'll probably be nothing like the Wagner before surgery, but he could be better than Randy Williams.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[beck72]

I guess it would depend on how much money the Mets would send with. The cash for this year, and next year's $1 mill. buyout would total $3.75 mill. I don't think any team would pay Wagner $8 mill for 2010. I don't see it personally. But stranger things have happened.

 

[chw42]

It depends how much salary the Mets will pick-up. If they're even going to give us money for the buy-out next year, okay.

[BigSqwert]

An expensive reliever coming off injury? Pass!

[ILMOU]

I didn't know Honus was available. I've got extra rookie cards if anybody wants 'em. Handsome kid.

 

[Balta1701]

It depends how much salary the Mets will pick-up. If they're even going to give us money for the buy-out next year, okay.

I can't believe the Mets would pay us enough to make it worth it, unless we gave them something pretty useful in return, and really, why would we want to give them something useful? They're not going to give us $10 million and Wagner for McCullough or something like that; for that kind of money they would want someone who could actually help them.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I can't believe the Mets would pay us enough to make it worth it, unless we gave them something pretty useful in return, and really, why would we want to give them something useful? They're not going to give us $10 million and Wagner for McCullough or something like that; for that kind of money they would want someone who could actually help them.

We got Ramon Castro and something like $2M of salary savings or whatever for Lance freaking Broadway. It shouldn't take much. If the Sox offer to cover or split the $1M buyout plus give them a halfway decent prospect then we should be able to get him unless someone else offers something better.

[Kyyle23]

Im not really in love with the idea of trading for a reliever who had tommy john surgery less than a year ago

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

An expensive reliever coming off injury? Pass!

He wouldn't be expensive if the Mets ate the rest of his deal, which they would have to do to trade him in the first place.

 

According to the article he's hitting 94 on the gun. If that's true then he's already better than Randy Williams.

[Balta1701]

He wouldn't be expensive if the Mets ate the rest of his deal, which they would have to do to trade him in the first place.

 

According to the article he's hitting 94 on the gun. If that's true then he's already better than Randy Williams.

Then why would the Mets eat his entire salary?

[GoodAsGould]

Then why would the Mets eat his entire salary?

 

Is he under contract next season? Otherwise we are only paying for 2 months of that contract, so if the Mets just paid for a little of it, wouldnt be too bad.

[beck72]

Is he under contract next season? Otherwise we are only paying for 2 months of that contract, so if the Mets just paid for a little of it, wouldnt be too bad.

There is a team option for $8 mill for 2010, with a $1 mill. buyout.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

God I hope not.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Then why would the Mets eat his entire salary?

Because there's still a buyout on top of that. Even if they eat his full contract for this season there's still another $1M after that. Even if he's healthy and throwing well I doubt anyone is going to assume all or even most of that. Wagner isn't getting arb and is going to be bought out so the Mets would just be trying to get something out of him instead of nothing. The contract is already a sunk cost so eating 2009 salary shouldn't be an issue for them.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

God I hope not.

Who would you rather having coming in against a tough lefty in the 6th or 7th inning of a playoff game: Randy Williams or Billy Wagner? If he comes cheap enough I'd be all for it. Thornton is the only good lefty we have and I don't think we could afford to use him situationally when he's our best setup man.

 

After Randy Williams, because of the Peavy trade, we almost literally have nothing at all. 2 more non-prospects in Wes Whisler and Mike Johnston are in Charlotte and if you actually want to go down the system, the closest left-handed pitching prospect we have is Charlie Leesman in Kannapolis. I'd be shocked if Kenny isn't looking for a second lefty and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is the one after Wagner.

[Brian]

An expensive reliever coming off injury? Pass!

 

Who knows how hard he can throw now as well.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

Who knows how hard he can throw now as well.

 

I thought they were sayin he was hitting mid 90's?

[Buehrle>Wood]

Then why would the Mets eat his entire salary?

 

Because they're 11 out and he's of no use to them. They mind as get something for him.

 

The problem would be the buyout, which I wouldn't see us paying so you'd have get them to chip in on that too.

[WCSox]

After thinking about this, it may have some merit. The key would be getting the Mets to cover at least half of his remaining salary, and who knows if they'd be willing to do it. They may be more interested in a prospect, which I don't think would be in our best interest. It'd also be a real gamble for us, since we don't know if the guy can still pitch effectively.

 

Keep in mind that he'd also have to clear waivers, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins cock-blocked us.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If Wagner can still pitch effectively, the Mets have little incentive to eat all of his salary. And in the highly-unlikely scenario that they would, they want a good package of prospects in return. Either way, it's not in the Sox's interest to pursue him. They can likely find a much cheaper LHP somewhere else. And anybody that they're able to acquire right now would have to clear waivers anyway.

Wagner is actually an ideal target for a few reasons:

#1 Waivers: If a good NL lefty gets put on waivers he's not even getting to the AL, much less the Sox. If a good AL lefty hits waivers he's probably not getting to the Sox either, especially if we're leading the division at the time. Wagner should safely clear because if anyone claims him the Mets will dump his entire contract. Once he clears, the Mets are allowed to negotiate with any team in baseball.

#2 Cost: He's not going to bring a bevy in prospects. He hasn't pitched since last year and is not going to qualify for compensation. He'll be bought out after the season. No one is going to give up great cost for him.

#3 Waivers + Cost: Any team that acquires him will have to refrain from dealing a player on the 40-man because that player would also have to clear waivers, either that or the player will have to be made a PTNBL and the deal will have to be completed on Sept. 1. So it is probably going to cost non-roster prospects, and no one is going to give up anything all that great to get him.

 

Also I disagree on the Mets having little incentive to eat his salary. If they can save a bit of money in the process and also get a prospect or two in return, that is better than nothing. They are currently 11th in the Wild Card standings and 9 games back, also they're 4th in their division and 11 games back there. The Mets have no reason to keep him for this season and no reason to keep him beyond that point as they have both KRod and Putz.

[WCSox]

Wagner is actually an ideal target for a few reasons:

#1 Waivers: If a good NL lefty gets put on waivers he's not even getting to the AL, much less the Sox. If a good AL lefty hits waivers he's probably not getting to the Sox either, especially if we're leading the division at the time. Wagner should safely clear because if anyone claims him the Mets will dump his entire contract. Once he clears, the Mets are allowed to negotiate with any team in baseball.

#2 Cost: He's not going to bring a bevy in prospects. He hasn't pitched since last year and is not going to qualify for compensation. He'll be bought out after the season. No one is going to give up great cost for him.

#3 Waivers + Cost: Any team that acquires him will have to refrain from dealing a player on the 40-man because that player would also have to clear waivers, either that or the player will have to be made a PTNBL and the deal will have to be completed on Sept. 1. So it is probably going to cost non-roster prospects, and no one is going to give up anything all that great to get him.

 

Also I disagree on the Mets having little incentive to eat his salary. If they can save a bit of money in the process and also get a prospect or two in return, that is better than nothing. They are currently 11th in the Wild Card standings and 9 games back, also they're 4th in their division and 11 games back there. The Mets have no reason to keep him for this season and no reason to keep him beyond that point as they have both KRod and Putz.

 

After thinking about it more, I deleted the post that you cited and wrote a new one. See above.

 

Agreed that it will "only" cost non-roster prospects, but I'm not sure that the Sox want to deal those either. It would have to be a pretty mediocre prospect, IMO.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

After thinking about it more, I deleted the post that you cited and wrote a new one. See above.

 

Agreed that it will "only" cost non-roster prospects, but I'm not sure that the Sox want to deal those either. It would have to be a pretty mediocre prospect, IMO.

Yeah I saw that.

 

For what he'd cost, I'm thinking more along the lines of Link/DRod/Kuhn/Ely/Anthony Carter/Egbert, etc. Give them a MR, UT, 5th starter prospect or two. He shouldn't cost a higher ceiling guy. If he's looking really good maybe he'd cost us Harrell/Retherford/Shirek, etc.

 

If the Mets wanted to play hardball (kind of) the Sox could offer to pay about $1M this year, split the buyout ($500K), and give them Shelby and a lesser name. That's better than nothing.

[WCSox]

Yeah I saw that.

 

For what he'd cost, I'm thinking more along the lines of Link/DRod/Kuhn/Ely/Anthony Carter/Egbert, etc. Give them a MR, UT, 5th starter prospect or two. He shouldn't cost a higher ceiling guy. If he's looking really good maybe he'd cost us Harrell/Retherford/Shirek, etc.

 

If the Mets wanted to play hardball (kind of) the Sox could offer to pay about $1M this year, split the buyout ($500K), and give them Shelby and a lesser name. That's better than nothing.

 

I don't know if I'd give up Shelby, but a lesser guy and the financial agreement that you cited about might be worth it. But I'd REALLY need to see evidence that Wagner can still pitch before pulling the trigger.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I don't know if I'd give up Shelby, but a lesser guy and the financial agreement that you cited about might be worth it. But I'd REALLY need to see evidence that Wagner can still pitch before pulling the trigger.

If the article is correct when it says he's been hitting 94 on his rehab assignment then that's probably good enough given his career control. He only has pitched 3 innings so far this year but he has 4 K's and has 0 BB, 0 HBP, 0 WP, and has just given up 1 hit. So it seems like his control is there and if he has it this soon after coming back it's probably a good bet that he'll keep it.

 

I'd give up Shelby because I've never been a huge fan. Because of his K rate, lack of power, and inability to play a lock-down CF it will be very tough for him to stick in the Majors, even as a 4th OF. He does have tools though so maybe someone would like to take a shot. Also Fields, Lillibridge, and Cole Armstrong could be buy-low PTBNL candidates but again the Mets wouldn't be able to get one of those guys until 9/1.

[prochisox]

If Wagner is healthy, and if the Mets would pay his whole salary + buyout next year, I would give them Carlos Torres and/or Wes Whisler. They need pitching and can have these guys for a healthy Wagner.