Does Kenny have his eye on Wagner?

[Harry Chappas]

He won't make it past NL waivers same as Pavano did not make it past Minnesota.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Who would you rather having coming in against a tough lefty in the 6th or 7th inning of a playoff game: Randy Williams or Billy Wagner? If he comes cheap enough I'd be all for it. Thornton is the only good lefty we have and I don't think we could afford to use him situationally when he's our best setup man.

 

After Randy Williams, because of the Peavy trade, we almost literally have nothing at all. 2 more non-prospects in Wes Whisler and Mike Johnston are in Charlotte and if you actually want to go down the system, the closest left-handed pitching prospect we have is Charlie Leesman in Kannapolis. I'd be shocked if Kenny isn't looking for a second lefty and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is the one after Wagner.

 

Wagner couldn't get guys out before the injury. A year off isn't going to fix that fact.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Wagner couldn't get guys out before the injury. A year off isn't going to fix that fact.

Great argument.

 

Wagner's career numbers: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml

 

Wagner's 2008: 47 IP, 2.30 ERA, 27 SV, 0.89 WHIP, 6.1 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 1.9 BB/9, 10.0 K/9, 5.20 K/BB; All-Star

Wagner's career: 818 IP, 2.40 ERA, 385 SV, 1.01 WHIP, 6.1 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 11.7 K/9, 3.95 K/BB; 6-time All-Star, two top-6 Cy Young finishes

 

You sure do know what you're talking about.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Great argument.

 

Wagner's career numbers: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml

 

Wagner's 2008: 47 IP, 2.30 ERA, 27 SV, 0.89 WHIP, 6.1 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 1.9 BB/9, 10.0 K/9, 5.20 K/BB; All-Star

Wagner's career: 818 IP, 2.40 ERA, 385 SV, 1.01 WHIP, 6.1 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 11.7 K/9, 3.95 K/BB; 6-time All-Star, two top-6 Cy Young finishes

 

You sure do know what you're talking about.

 

Have you seen Wagner pitch with the Mets???

 

Don't throw career stats at me.

 

He was ran out of Houston and Philly.

 

He was/is hated in NY.

 

He is a locker room cancer.

 

The above are facts.

Edited August 7, 2009 by AWhiteSoxinNJ

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Have you seen Wagner pitch with the Mets???

 

Don't throw career stats at me.

 

He was ran out of Houston and Philly.

 

He was/is hated in NY.

 

He is a locker room cancer.

 

The above are facts.

Facts?

 

I posted stats. Those are indisputable facts. You post hearsay and rumors, not facts.

 

BTW Carl Everett, Frank Thomas, and AJ have all been called clubhouse cancers and yet we won a World Series with all of them on the same team. Reading about how a player is considered a cancer doesn't mean he is one.

 

No, I haven't seen Wagner pitch a ton with the Mets, but I've seen him pitch throughout his career and he has been awesome. I don't know what you were looking at but those 2008 numbers are ELITE and his stuff is also ELITE so I wouldn't trust your opinion on him anyway. He made 45 appearances in 2008 and 38 of them were scoreless. You're going to have a very hard time convincing anyone other than yourself that Wagner isn't awesome when healthy - and over his career he's been very durable.

[jenksycat]

Facts?

 

I posted stats. Those are indisputable facts. You post hearsay and rumors, not facts.

 

BTW Carl Everett, Frank Thomas, and AJ have all been called clubhouse cancers and yet we won a World Series with all of them on the same team. Reading about how a player is considered a cancer doesn't mean he is one.

 

No, I haven't seen Wagner pitch a ton with the Mets, but I've seen him pitch throughout his career and he has been awesome. I don't know what you were looking at but those 2008 numbers are ELITE and his stuff is also ELITE so I wouldn't trust your opinion on him anyway. He made 45 appearances in 2008 and 38 of them were scoreless. You're going to have a very hard time convincing anyone other than yourself that Wagner isn't awesome when healthy - and over his career he's been very durable.

 

Dude, you didn't hear? Wagner was recently diagnosed with a rare form of Clubhouse Cancer. Its inoperable and is pure FACT

[NorthSideSox72]

Have you seen Wagner pitch with the Mets???

 

Don't throw career stats at me.

 

He was ran out of Houston and Philly.

 

He was/is hated in NY.

 

He is a locker room cancer.

 

The above are facts.

Well obviously, being a clubhouse cancer is subjective and therefore cannot be fact. But, I was not aware of any evidence of this, so if you have any, please do share.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Dude, you didn't hear? Wagner was recently diagnosed with a rare form of Clubhouse Cancer. Its inoperable and is pure FACT

I heard he tried to host a benefit alongside Brian Anderson and Elijah Dukes but somehow the fliers never got out and all the organizers ended up dead or pregnant.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Well obviously, being a clubhouse cancer is subjective and therefore cannot be fact. But, I was not aware of any evidence of this, so if you have any, please do share.

 

Not to be a name dropper but I have hung out with some of the Phillies here and there and they told me he's a "me first" guy and glad that he wasn't brought back. They are still on the team so you guys can figure out the rest.

 

Trust me, you don't want him.

[rockren]

Im not really in love with the idea of trading for a reliever who had tommy john surgery less than a year ago

 

Safe bet is that Kenny isn't, either.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Facts?

 

I posted stats. Those are indisputable facts. You post hearsay and rumors, not facts.

 

BTW Carl Everett, Frank Thomas, and AJ have all been called clubhouse cancers and yet we won a World Series with all of them on the same team. Reading about how a player is considered a cancer doesn't mean he is one.

 

No, I haven't seen Wagner pitch a ton with the Mets, but I've seen him pitch throughout his career and he has been awesome. I don't know what you were looking at but those 2008 numbers are ELITE and his stuff is also ELITE so I wouldn't trust your opinion on him anyway. He made 45 appearances in 2008 and 38 of them were scoreless. You're going to have a very hard time convincing anyone other than yourself that Wagner isn't awesome when healthy - and over his career he's been very durable.

 

That's great you post stats. The thing about the past is that, it happen in the past. Stats that happen 5-10 years ago don't apply to today. Look at John Smoltz, a first ballot hall of famer just kicked to the curb. But he has great stats, doesn't mean s*** today now does it?

Edited August 7, 2009 by AWhiteSoxinNJ

[WCSox]

If Wagner is healthy, and if the Mets would pay his whole salary + buyout next year, I would give them Carlos Torres and/or Wes Whisler. They need pitching and can have these guys for a healthy Wagner.

 

Given that Torres may be our #5 next year and that we're definitely going to need him this month (and possibly longer) this season, there's no way that I trade him two months of a guy who just had surgery on his pitching arm.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

That's great you post stats. The thing about the past is that, it happen in the past. Stats that happen 5-10 years ago don't apply to today. Look at John Smoltz, a first ballot hall of famer just kicked to the curb. But he has great stats, doesn't mean s*** today now does it?

You must be a bad argument machine.

 

I posted his numbers in the first place because you so wrongly stated that he wasn't getting anyone out prior to getting hurt. The numbers show he was having another excellent year in an excellent career. Because you realized you couldn't dispute the numbers you then resorted to accusations about the player. It doesn't matter what you heard or think you heard. Whoever those players were, if they did say something negative, they're not on the Sox (unless you're going to claim you've been hanging out with Jim Thome and Jimmy doesn't like him). And either way, none of that matters. He can be a humongous asshole but if he came here and helped us win another title then I really don't care at all. He would get bought out after the season and I highly doubt 2-3 months tops is going to be enough for anyone to lower the morale of 24 other players in a drive for a pennant.

 

As far as what he is capable of now, the column that said there was an AL club trying to get him also said he was hitting 94 on the gun. His velocity is there and so far his control has been there as well. A veteran lefty who knows how to pitch and can locate his 94mph fastball is going to get people out. If he's healthy, he is an improvement over Randy Williams and a secondary lefty option in our bullpen. Are you going to try to argue that too?

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

You must be a bad argument machine.

 

I posted his numbers in the first place because you so wrongly stated that he wasn't getting anyone out prior to getting hurt. The numbers show he was having another excellent year in an excellent career. Because you realized you couldn't dispute the numbers you then resorted to accusations about the player. It doesn't matter what you heard or think you heard. Whoever those players were, if they did say something negative, they're not on the Sox (unless you're going to claim you've been hanging out with Jim Thome and Jimmy doesn't like him). And either way, none of that matters. He can be a humongous asshole but if he came here and helped us win another title then I really don't care at all. He would get bought out after the season and I highly doubt 2-3 months tops is going to be enough for anyone to lower the morale of 24 other players in a drive for a pennant.

 

As far as what he is capable of now, the column that said there was an AL club trying to get him also said he was hitting 94 on the gun. His velocity is there and so far his control has been there as well. A veteran lefty who knows how to pitch and can locate his 94mph fastball is going to get people out. If he's healthy, he is an improvement over Randy Williams and a secondary lefty option in our bullpen. Are you going to try to argue that too?

 

 

Billy Wagner was the #1 reason why the Mets melted down the stretch last season. The White Sox are NOT...repeat NOT getting Wagner.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I just wanted to say that I would fully endorse this move.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Given that Torres may be our #5 next year and that we're definitely going to need him this month (and possibly longer) this season, there's no way that I trade him two months of a guy who just had surgery on his pitching arm.

I don't see why they'd want Torres anyway when they could ask for much, much better prospects while still allowing us to keep all of our important pieces. Torres' confidence was impressive but the stuff wasn't there to reliably pitch in this ballpark, and even though he had a great outing for us, Lance Broadway has done the same. Torres got away with a lot of good pitches to hit and if he had been on the mound for another team and it was instead the Sox who got shut down I doubt he'd get so much credit.

 

That said, if they did want Torres it would be crazy not to deal him. After Peavy is here we have one spot for Count/Freddy/Colon/Hudson/Whisler/Egbert/Harrell/Cassel, etc. and then a couple other starts from the 5th slot until then. Losing Torres shouldn't hurt us at all.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Billy Wagner was the #1 reason why the Mets melted down the stretch last season. The White Sox are NOT...repeat NOT getting Wagner.

WOW

 

A guy who last pitched on August 2 of last year was the reason the Mets couldn't win for 2 months afterwards???

 

And how do you know the Sox aren't the AL contender looking at him? Kenny has gone after him before and now he needs another lefty unless he wants to plan on going into the playoffs with Randy Williams in such an important role. Thornton is NOT suited for situational duty because the Sox need him for regular setup work.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

WOW

 

A guy who last pitched on August 2 of last year was the reason the Mets couldn't win for 2 months afterwards???

 

And how do you know the Sox aren't the AL contender looking at him? Kenny has gone after him before and now he needs another lefty unless he wants to plan on going into the playoffs with Randy Williams in such an important role. Thornton is NOT suited for situational duty because the Sox need him for regular setup work.

 

The fact that the report came out tells me it not the White Sox.

 

Wagner actually got hurt in June and pitched injuried and blew a ton of games in July. Living in the Philly area, you saw ever Met highlight nightly.

Edited August 7, 2009 by AWhiteSoxinNJ

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The fact that the report came out tells me it not the White Sox.

Right, so no one working for or close to the Mets could have leaked info...

 

If this came from anywhere it probably came from the Mets because they're the ones deciding whether to trade him and for what price. You're also clueless if you believe the Sox (or any playoff contender in need of a lefty for that matter) are not going to send scouts to a couple of his minor league games to watch him throw with the reasoning that somewhere along the line someone said he's a bad teammate.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

On June 4th Wagner's ERA was 0.36. So he got hurt, had a few bad games, then had a stretch of dominance, then disappeared for surgery.

 

Here's his gamelog: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...p&year=2008

[southsider2k5]

You must be a bad argument machine.

 

 

There really isn't a need for that...

[WCSox]

Torres' confidence was impressive but the stuff wasn't there to reliably pitch in this ballpark, and even though he had a great outing for us, Lance Broadway has done the same. Torres got away with a lot of good pitches to hit and if he had been on the mound for another team and it was instead the Sox who got shut down I doubt he'd get so much credit.

 

That said, if they did want Torres it would be crazy not to deal him. After Peavy is here we have one spot for Count/Freddy/Colon/Hudson/Whisler/Egbert/Harrell/Cassel, etc. and then a couple other starts from the 5th slot until then. Losing Torres shouldn't hurt us at all.

 

I agree that Torres left a lot of pitches up in his one outing and got lucky. That said, it speaks volumes that the only other pitching prospect that they could bring up here is Hudson, who isn't even ready yet. Torres may not be all that, but we have very few minor league options right now with Richard and Poreda gone. I don't deal him

[Kalapse]

The fact that the report came out tells me it not the White Sox.

 

Wagner actually got hurt in June and pitched injuried and blew a ton of games in July. Living in the Philly area, you saw ever Met highlight nightly.

Wagner logged 13 IP in 12 July outings last year. He allowed a grand total of 7 baserunners in those 12 outings and 4 runners crossed the plate. All 4 runs were scored in a 2 game span and the Mets won both games. In all the Mets went 11-1 in games in which Wagner pitched in July. Of the 9 saves he had that month 8 of them were completed without allowing a baserunner, this includes a perfect 2 inning save.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I agree that Torres left a lot of pitches up in his one outing and got lucky. That said, it speaks volumes that the only other pitching prospect that they could bring up here is Hudson, who isn't even ready yet. Torres may not be all that, but we have very few minor league options right now with Richard and Poreda gone. I don't deal him

I agree mostly and I also want to say that I was very impressed with Torres as it appears he has the mental capacity to get the most out of what he has. But I do disagree with our lack of other options: we've got Whisler, Egbert, Harrell, Freddy, Count, and Colon for 5th starter duties even if you discount Hudson. And while none of those names can be expected to come in and light the world on fire right now, they're all in Torres' league IMO. I think Harrell has the stuff but control and pitch count will be an issue; Freddy doesn't need a whole lot given his repertoire of offspeed stuff; Colon and Count can at least keep us in fairly high-scoring affairs for 5 innings; Egbert and Whisler might be serviceable too for a few innings here and there. I wouldn't actually say Torres is necessarily a better bet to have success his next time out than any of those guys so in that respect I'd have no problem with it. Each one of those guys could come in, throw a quality start, then give up 8ER in 2IP the next time out and I wouldn't be surprised.

[Shamrock4Life]

Watching NJ get pwned in this thread (at least player performance wise) is quite funny.