T R U Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Do you think they are going to risk keeping him and then not being able to move him in the offseason when no one wants to eat that contract? If they were smart, they would take this opportunity to lose that contract.. Doesn't mean they cant try and get something in return, but I think it would be foolish to miss a chance to have it gone right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 05:00 PM) That's what I'd do if I were in that seat. Or at least, when Tuesday rolls around, I'd drop my asking price for Rios to something KW might accept. There is no way Riccardi botches this oppurtunity to clear that much payroll. Esspecially after the Halladay embaresment. I'm guessing Rios will come here for 2 middle level prospects. Get this done KW!! Finally a CF who could play solid defense and actually hit the ball!! Oh how we've been craving this for far too long. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 04:12 PM) There is no way Riccardi botches this oppurtunity to clear that much payroll. Esspecially after the Halladay embaresment. I'm guessing Rios will come here for 2 middle level prospects. Get this done KW!! Finally a CF who could play solid defense and actually hit the ball!! Oh how we've been craving this for far too long. . . Retherford, Shelby and Ely or Shirek. I don't want to part with Morel, but he'd be the limit as far as I would go in giving up quality. Several others are untouchable in this instance, clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 06:18 PM) Retherford, Shelby and Ely or Shirek. I don't want to part with Morel, but he'd be the limit as far as I would go in giving up quality. Several others are untouchable in this instance, clearly. I really don't think we'd give up Retherford. Shelby, maybe, given his dip in production, but Retherford is valued rather highly by Buddy Bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 03:18 PM) Retherford, Shelby and Ely or Shirek. I don't want to part with Morel, but he'd be the limit as far as I would go in giving up quality. Several others are untouchable in this instance, clearly. I'm not sure I give up any of those guys without Toronto chipping in a little money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 04:49 PM) Why would the Tigers want to go after Rios when they're already on the hook for the salaries (this season) of Sheffield, Nate Robertson, Dontrelle D-Train Willis, Ordonez (he will definitely not qualify for his option year), Bonderman, Carlos Guillen, etc.??? They are going to have to spend a pretty penny to keep Edwin Jackson around next season, that's for sure. He will undoubtedly get a huge boost in salary, and Inge and Granderson are starting to make some bank as well. With Clete Thomas (actually his stats aren't incredibly different from Beckham's, overall, but he is a corner outfielder, not an infielder) and Ryan Raburn (and they already traded away Joyce and brought in Josh Anderson as well), there's not really a compelling need to break the bank on Rios, although the money (for 2010) could theoretically be shifted from Magglio to Alex Rios. I do think, however, that Dombrowski has to be very careful with his spending this offseason...you gotta give DET fans credit, coming off a terribly disappointing 2008 season, they've supported their "average" team to the tune of 31000+ fans per game this season. All this despite the economic calamity poster-child syndrome that is DET, CLE and PITT. Heck, look specifically at those last two teams being completely blown apart...as well as the Jays and potentially Padres to a lesser extent. Josh Anderson is no longer with them. He's with the Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 This whole thing is very interesting to me. On one hand - we have Ricciardi - who is just the biggest moron known to man apparently. Keeping in my the bad contracts and the inability to deal Halladay for a very good package of player, he is now in the midst of dealing away a very productive/young/hyped OF at possibly the lowest value Rios has ever been at. Naturally, he is claiming they won't deal him for nothing but he cannot afford to overplay his hand again. It's no secret Wells is locked in up there and Lind is a beast. Snider is next on the agenda and played well enough at points this season for me to presume they'd be willing to turn the position over to him next season (if Rios is gone). So they didn't clear salary, you can't trade your ace anymore until the offseason and if you do - you'll undoubtedly receive less than during this season and be seen as the class clown, and you have a log-jam of talent and money in that OF. The move has to be made and at a cheaper cost IMO. From our end, I don't get the move from a "timing" standpoint. I think Rios could finally reach his potential out here because his big knock was never developing that power. In our park - we could see a surge of sorts. Great defender and fills the CF hole. Just the timing scares me because of when will he play? You're going to bench who? So you're causing those issues both with Rios and with our present OF, where we have Dye who deserves his spot, Pods has more than earned his with the boost he brought us, and Quentin who is trying to get healthy (you aren't going to bench a potential MVP bat). So like I said - it doesn't seem to have a positive effect on the atmosphere as most trades for an All-Star caliber player would. Then you have the other side effects where you are basically telling one of Thome, Dye, Pods that they are gone next year. Seemingly very popular and respected guys in the clubhouse so who knows how well that goes over. And you're bringing on another 12 mil (albeit I think Rios will be worth that money in Chicago) while dealing away more prospects. Just not sure about it. Personally, I think you have to do it and not allow him to be dealt elsewhere in the offseason if we don't have a plan for CF in the immediate future. He solves a huge void for this team and is into his prime (not playing like it but he has unlimited potential) and I am not sure if I would roll the dice on it with how our situation is. Tough call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 04:18 PM) Retherford, Shelby and Ely or Shirek. I don't want to part with Morel, but he'd be the limit as far as I would go in giving up quality. Several others are untouchable in this instance, clearly. Eh. Maybe replace Ely with Leesman. I don't want to give that guy up, he really knows how to pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (League @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 04:28 PM) Eh. Maybe replace Ely with Leesman. I don't want to give that guy up, he really knows how to pitch. OK, I hear ya'll. My point is that we should get him, and if we can get cash by adding prospects for Rios, all the better. When I think about the offseason as an alternative time to fill the CF void, I can't imagine that we'd fare any better, or for a better player. This is a unique opportunity for a serious upgrade and we hold exclusive negotiating rights only temporarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I've certainly not read the entire thread, but I don't get the interest in Rios. Rather pedestrian player for the money he is going to be paid over the next years to come... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) I've certainly not read the entire thread, but I don't get the interest in Rios. Rather pedestrian player for the money he is going to be paid over the next years to come... Better than what we have. The best discussion around. Mystery. Intrigue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ken Rosenthal's take "Yet, the teams that like Rios — and the White Sox have had a longstanding interest in him — are enamored with his 30-home run, 30-stolen base potential and ability to play center field." 30 SB's, 30 HR potential? where have you been!!! "The Jays cannot look at this opportunity in the traditional sense. They will be criticized in some quarters if they receive a minimal or no return for Rios, but who cares? This would be a "trade" with a different kind of gain" Like I said, Riccardi cannot botch this oppurtunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) I've certainly not read the entire thread, but I don't get the interest in Rios. Rather pedestrian player for the money he is going to be paid over the next years to come... He's put up rough numbers this year, but if you accept that; we've had a gaping hole in CF the last few years, we're going to have to spend money on an OF this offseason, and the only one who would give obviously more performance than Rios would be Holliday, grabbing Rios for scraps and gambling on him getting back to his form for the last 3 years isn't a bad move at all, especially if you consider the salary we have coming off the books next offseason. We get younger, better on defense, and better on the basepaths, and hopefully only lose a little bit in the power department if we can work out the kinks he's run in to this year. If you saw him on the FA market, you'd probably expect him to get around 3/$30 right now, give or take, given his age. You're paying a little more than that, but you also don't risk getting outbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 05:46 PM) Ken Rosenthal's take "Yet, the teams that like Rios — and the White Sox have had a longstanding interest in him — are enamored with his 30-home run, 30-stolen base potential and ability to play center field." 30 SB's, 30 HR potential? where have you been!!! "The Jays cannot look at this opportunity in the traditional sense. They will be criticized in some quarters if they receive a minimal or no return for Rios, but who cares? This would be a "trade" with a different kind of gain" Like I said, Riccardi cannot botch this oppurtunity. But he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I'll certainly agree that we need an upgrade of SOME sorts in CF, and Rios could fill the part. Also, to not have to get into a bidding war would behoove us. I guess, IF Rios does make it to the Southside, I'll have the wait and see approach. Not sure where Rosenthal gets his "30 HR and 30 SB" ideas from though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 03:51 PM) I'll certainly agree that we need an upgrade of SOME sorts in CF, and Rios could fill the part. Also, to not have to get into a bidding war would behoove us. I guess, IF Rios does make it to the Southside, I'll have the wait and see approach. Not sure where Rosenthal gets his "30 HR and 30 SB" ideas from though. Last year he was 32/40 on stolen bases (80%clip) and the year before that he hit 24 HR in a pitcher's park. This year he's on pace for 30+ steals and 20+ HR again. 30/30 is not out of the realm of possibility for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 But then Scotty 2 Hotty Pods might not be here next year!!!!!11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Capn12 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 03:55 PM) But then Scotty 2 Hotty Pods might not be here next year!!!!!11 Even if you grab Rios, you still only have 2 obvious starting OF's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 05:56 PM) Even if you grab Rios, you still only have 2 obvious starting OF's. With the 3rd hopefully being Figgins to round off our lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 03:59 PM) With the 3rd hopefully being Figgins to round off our lineup. I think Rios makes Figgins no longer a good candidate to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 05:59 PM) With the 3rd hopefully being Figgins to round off our lineup. If we get Rios we won't be signing Figgins IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 05:59 PM) With the 3rd hopefully being Figgins to round off our lineup. Not to burst anyone's bubble, because many have shared similar sentiments. But I highly doubt that Figgins would be in the picture should this deal for Rios happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) We can't ADD Rios' contract AND get into a bidding war in the vicinity of 3 years and $24-30 million for Figgins. That's just way too expensive, Figgins will decline soon, speed players in their 30's always do...and he's possibly playing at a higher level this season as this will be his last opportunity at a pretty big, extended year contract. Sure, we can offer him 1-2 years, but it would be pretty silly to be locked into Figgins at 3B or CF when we have Viciedo, Danks and Mitchell all in the pipeline. A great piece to have and KW has coveted him for five years seemingly, but not at ANY price or not in a bidding war situation with 10-12 other MLB clubs. It's not like 3-4 "elite" leadoff men will be on the FA market this offseason, either. Edited August 9, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Not to mention Figgins will cost a draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Peter Gammons just stated he would not be surprised if Rios were to be traded for nothing. He did not claim to know if the White Sox won the waiver claim - just that Buster Olney and several websites believe it to be the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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