Confirmed: White Sox claim on Alex Rios on waivers

[iamshack]

With Danks and Mitchell poised to be coming up within a year or two is is worth taking on a long contract with an underachieving Rios? Could this be a knee jerk reaction to the 3 errors per game we've seen the team put up the last 2 weeks?

 

Well, considering we've got 1 semi-long-term OFer, and that's Quentin, I don't see us having a logjam there or anything.

Edited August 8, 2009 by iamshack

[knightni]

Yep but there's also no good reason for the Orioles, Indians, Royals or Athletics to pass on Fields, especially the Orioles who have shown interest in him in the past.

They could trade Fields to whomever claims him for guys not on the 40, then trade those guys to Toronto.

 

 

[knightni]

With Danks and Mitchell poised to be coming up within a year or two is is worth taking on a long contract with an underachieving Rios? Could this be a knee jerk reaction to the 3 errors per game we've seen the team put up the last 2 weeks?

 

EDIT: That last statement is obviously an exaggeration but it sure feels like it's been 3 errors/game.

I'd rather have a proactive GM than a reactive one.

[BigSqwert]

Well, considering we've got 1 semi-long-term OFer, and that's Quentin, I don't see us having a logjam there or anything.

Quentin, a 1 year extension on Pods which would probably be cheap, and Danks/Mitchell/Kostay. Sure would give us more money to work with to sign a good 5th starter next year.

[Dick Allen]

Why do you always do this? Why do you always take statements I make in regards to other teams, or other players, or other FO members or managers, and claim as though simply because I made a negative comment about one of them, I must also be endorsing a similar (or what you believe to be a similar) behavior or occurrence from someone within the White Sox organization? Not once did I claim Ozzie is perfect, or not a big mouth, or not an asshole. Not once did I endorse or encourage KW to speak in regards to other players. And yet, because I am a fan of this team, you assume as though that must means I endorse every breath any member of the organization takes, and therefore, I am further disqualifed from criticizing or commenting on what I believe are the missteps of others.

 

Regardless of what Kenny, Jerry, or Ozzie have done, that does not somehow prevent JP Ricciardi of being a ridiculously arrogant prick. Where you heard he was "a nice guy in private, and very smart," I don't know. I am certain the guy is very smart. You don't get to his position in life by not being very smart. And yeah, maybe he doesn't kick his kid or his dog, or beat his wife, but that doesn't dismiss the fact that from most everything the media writes or says about him, he comes off as a total jerk.

 

As for your comments on him being the Blue Jays' GM, this is what the arrogant ass promised in order to get the job - this is just the kind of over-the-top nonsense this guy spews:

 

"You are spending too much money," Ricciardi reportedly told Godfrey. "I can make you cheaper and better. It'll take a couple of months to make you cheaper and a couple of years to make you better. But you'll be a lot better."

 

 

Whatever.

 

Considering they play 1/3 of their schedule against TB, NYY, and BOS, and have been decimated by pitching injuries, 6 games under is a lot better than they used to be. They have some pretty good players on that team. I suppose not showing any confidence in your ability would be the way you would suggest a guy approach a GM job. Maybe your way can work. Ricciardi's did.

 

[DBAHO]

With Danks and Mitchell poised to be coming up within a year or two is is worth taking on a long contract with an underachieving Rios? Could this be a knee jerk reaction to the 3 errors per game we've seen the team put up the last 2 weeks?

That's something to certainly consider also.

 

But my thoughts on all of this. I have to say that looking at all of the numbers and the contract involved, I'm probably not in favor of this deal going ahead, for these reasons.

 

1 - Rios's OPS has declined from .852 in 07, to .798 in 08 and .734 in 09. That's a worrying trend.

2 - This season, Rios has a .859 OPS at the Rogers Center, and a .617 OPS away from it. For his career, he is a .735 OPS hitter away from the Rogers Center.

3 - Long - term I don't think he's good enough to be a center fielder defensively. If you'd acquire him, I'd say it's to replace Jermaine Dye in RF, as Dye moves to DH and Thome goes. Again, you have to weigh up the numbers and wonder if that's a good decision.

4 - Rios' GPA this season is .241. For comparisons sake, .265 is the average mark for an offensive player.

 

And of course with the contract, paying $60M over 6 years to someone who has declined offensively over the past few seasons is a BIG risk.

 

But Rios could certainly rebound at the Cell and become the player he was back in 2007 with a few adjustments. I just think ATM, the risk outweighs the reward, and that the Sox should look at better options in FA if there are any.

[iamshack]

Considering they play 1/3 of their schedule against TB, NYY, and BOS, and have been decimated by pitching injuries, 6 games under is a lot better than they used to be. They have some pretty good players on that team. I suppose not showing any confidence in your ability would be the way you would suggest a guy approach a GM job. Maybe your way can work. Ricciardi's did.

 

Dick, not only did the guy say he was going to make the team a lot better, but he had the nerve to say he was going to do it on the cheap too!

Hah!

Then he goes and commits $200 million to two of his outfielders....

[Kalapse]

If the sox are indeed interested in Rios, it just goes to show how difficult [and yes risky] it is to remake a pro baseball team without completely breaking it apart and go through a losing string of a few years. In Rios, he could [plausibly] be one of the final peices of the retooling of the sox-with his big and long term contract, as it would mark the end of either Thome of Dye in a Sox uni.

 

Since losing in 2007, the sox have gotten to this point in decent shape going forward, and should be able to contend for the AL Central in the future each year, by 1] making trades --Floyd, Danks, Quentin, Swisher #1 trade, the Vazquez and Swisher #2 trades, Pena, now Peavy; 2] signing a few free agents: Linebrink, Dotel, Alexei, Viciedo; 3] improving via the draft: Beckham, Mitchell, Hudson, Danks #2; and re-signing key vets: Buerhle, AJ, Dye, Thornton.

 

Rios is a risk for not playing up to his contract. But even if that proves to be the case, Rios shouldn't be Swisher reincarnated. At worst, he's a plus defender with power, who may not hit for a high avg. and get on base in a premium position, CF. Though, Rios would be a decent bet to give the sox production in CF they haven't had since 2005.

The fact that both players can no longer play passable defense at this point in their careers should spell the end for one of them in a Sox uniform, acquiring Rios shouldn't be the determining factor there.

 

Only 2 outfielders have more doubles than Alex Rios over the past 3 calendar years; Nick Markakis and Matt Holliday. He's also 5th in triples over that span.

[WCSox]

But if they can't pull him back a second time, whoever claimed him the second time would get him for nothing, so I don't see what that would accomplish for Toronto other than having to pay Rios a few more weeks to play meaningless games. I would imagine if all that has been speculated is true, Rios either winds up a White Sox or spends the rest of the year at the very least, in Toronto.

 

Even if Detroit wanted to trade for him, what would they give up for a guy owed at least $60 million? It can't be much, and if they are looking for Toronto to provide salary relief, wouldn't just letting the team that claimed Rios assume the entire contract be more attractive than eating $10-20 million just to acquire some middle of the road prospects?

 

Agreed, but I wasn't making this point about Rios specifically. My point was that the August waivers process isn't a one-chance deal. Obviously, Rios' contract makes his situation a lot different.

 

Well, he can get out of the Rios contract if he wishes right here, and if not trading the best pitcher in baseball makes you a bad GM, it may be one of the more difficult jobs ever created. The Wells deal was bad, but every GM has given bad contracts. Maybe not 9 figures bad, but as I said earlier, if Toronto was in the AL Central, they would be right in the race right now, if not out in front.

 

When you're the GM of a floundering team and your owner directs you to dump salary ASAP, you make the Halladay deal at the point of his highest value (last Friday). You don't let your ego get in the way because a few GMs are refusing to deal their future studs (Kershaw, Beckham, etc.). The Jays are now stuck with paying Halladay's salary for at least the rest of the year AND will get less talent in return when they eventually deal him.

 

Agreed that the AL East is a tough place to succeed. But the Rays were in an even worse situation going into last year, both financially and from a fan support perspective. And look at where they are now. The difference is that they amassed a ton of young talent, while Ricciardi tried to build his team by paying veterans top dollar. Honestly, I don't think that Ricciardi would've done a better job with the Mets than Omar Minaya has. Their approaches to building teams are very similar.

Edited August 8, 2009 by WCSox

[Kalapse]

That's something to certainly consider also.

 

But my thoughts on all of this. I have to say that looking at all of the numbers and the contract involved, I'm probably not in favor of this deal going ahead, for these reasons.

 

1 - Rios's OPS has declined from .852 in 07, to .798 in 08 and .734 in 09. That's a worrying trend.

2 - This season, Rios has a .859 OPS at the Rogers Center, and a .617 OPS away from it. For his career, he is a .735 OPS hitter away from the Rogers Center.

3 - Long - term I don't think he's good enough to be a center fielder defensively. If you'd acquire him, I'd say it's to replace Jermaine Dye in RF, as Dye moves to DH and Thome goes. Again, you have to weigh up the numbers and wonder if that's a good decision.

4 - Rios' GPA this season is .241. For comparisons sake, .265 is the average mark for an offensive player.

 

And of course with the contract, paying $60M over 6 years to someone who has declined offensively over the past few seasons is a BIG risk.

 

But Rios could certainly rebound at the Cell and become the player he was back in 2007 with a few adjustments. I just think ATM, the risk outweighs the reward, and that the Sox should look at better options in FA if there are any.

And why do you say this?

[BigSqwert]

2010 is going to be a very critical year for the Sox. A ton of money is coming off the books. Do we want to go into next season with a s***load of money locked into one player who's been underachieving? Are there better OF options in free agency next year? This would be a big gamble if it were to go through.

[DBAHO]

Considering they play 1/3 of their schedule against TB, NYY, and BOS, and have been decimated by pitching injuries, 6 games under is a lot better than they used to be. They have some pretty good players on that team. I suppose not showing any confidence in your ability would be the way you would suggest a guy approach a GM job. Maybe your way can work. Ricciardi's did.

You could also argue that TB have shown in that division, that unless you have a payroll over $100M, the only way you can win in that division is to have a great young core that can offer a lot of payroll flexibility.

 

IMO, he should have traded Halladay and rebuilt around the likes of Lind and Snider going forward, but then again, Toronto is trying to remain competitive with the attendance / payroll issues they have, so I can see why Riccardi did what he did even though a lot of people don't agree with it.

[beck72]

Are you sure about that? What I've read explains it a little differently...

 

Unless Rios has been pulled back once already this month, he can be placed back on waivers again.

 

It also sounds like Kenny is running the risk of getting stuck with all $60 million of that contract. Uggh.

If the Jays true intent is to see if they can strike a deal for Rios, they would try and work it out with the claiming team now. Say they pull him back, they likely wouldn't place him on again or they'd be stuck and have to trade him [for less than the first deal, as the 2nd claiming team wouldn't have to give in at all].

 

[Dick Allen]

Here's something interesting I just looked up. Remember last season when the Twins claimed Jerrod Washburn on waivers? There were many who speculated Seattle would just let him go, but they pulled him back after a trade couldn't be agreed upon.

 

Washburn comes back this season and has a real nice year, and is traded at the deadline for 2 pitchers without much major league experience. Luke French and some A ball guy.

 

Was this wait worth it for Seattle?

 

Contending really was a pipedream. Although they did get 2 pitchers, wouldn't they have been better off saving or reinvesting the almost $10 million they wound up paying Washburn?

 

Considering Rios is owed a lot more than that, I think if the White Sox claimed him, they are going to get him.

[beck72]

2010 is going to be a very critical year for the Sox. A ton of money is coming off the books. Do we want to go into next season with a s***load of money locked into one player who's been underachieving? Are there better OF options in free agency next year? This would be a big gamble if it were to go through.

Do the names Randy Winn, Bobby Abreu, Coco Crisp, Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, Johnny Damon, Matt Holliday, Mike Cameron do anything for you?

[PeavyTime]

Quentin, a 1 year extension on Pods which would probably be cheap, and Danks/Mitchell/Kostay. Sure would give us more money to work with to sign a good 5th starter next year.

 

That might be the worst outfield in history. But seriously, Kenny has his pitching set up and now he has to patch up the defense to make a run at the title. This move is a no-brainer in my opinion. Anyone who is cool with Pods in center needs immediate medical attention. And I might jump through my computer and choke the next person who "will be pissed if Pods is benched." Listen, no one is getting benched. This is a perfect way to rotate days off for the outfielders and Thome. And boy could they use those days off. Dye looks awful out there of late.

[nitetrain8601]

I don't see it. Either we don't get him or Rios doesn't waive his NTC. Think about it. You think Ozzie is going to bench Pods for him? How about Quentin or Dye. I say fat chance.

[DBAHO]

And why do you say this?

Well there's differing opinions on his ability out there. Obviously the Jays have Wells out there so he hasn't been given a huge run out there. Some people (Blue Jay fans) do think he is a natural CF though. His defensive #'s when he has played in CF are well average to above average I would probably say. You have to look at whether he could play center field for the next 5 seasons or not. If the Sox scouts and brass think he can, well then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt if they make the move.

 

BTW, some Bluejay fans thoughts here; http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2009/08/break...on-waivers.html

[Dick Allen]

You could also argue that TB have shown in that division, that unless you have a payroll over $100M, the only way you can win in that division is to have a great young core that can offer a lot of payroll flexibility.

 

IMO, he should have traded Halladay and rebuilt around the likes of Lind and Snider going forward, but then again, Toronto is trying to remain competitive with the attendance / payroll issues they have, so I can see why Riccardi did what he did even though a lot of people don't agree with it.

Ricciardi is responsible for allowing the Halladay situation to become a circus, and he even contributed to it becoming even a bigger one, for that, he is wrong. But keeping him, although I agree his value will go down, isn't a bad thing. At the very least, they will have one more year of Cy Young-quality performance and a couple of draft picks, and then perhaps some cash to spend. Wells, he's stuck with. If he unloads Rios, and Halladay is gone after next year, and some of these injured pitchers come back, he's setting himself or his replacement up exactly how you described they pretty much have to be and I agree with you.

[Kalapse]

Well there's differing opinions on his ability out there. Obviously the Jays have Wells out there so he hasn't been given a huge run out there. Some people (Blue Jay fans) do think he is a natural CF though. His defensive #'s when he has played in CF are well average to above average I would probably say. You have to look at whether he could play center field for the next 5 seasons or not. If the Sox scouts and brass think he can, well then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt if they make the move.

 

BTW, some Bluejay fans thoughts here; http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2009/08/break...on-waivers.html

His UZR numbers in CF last year were elite. Aside from idle speculation all we have to go on are his UZR numbers in '08, his athletic ability and elite numbers in RF.

[DBAHO]

His UZR numbers in CF last year were elite. Aside from idle speculation that, his athletic ability and elite numbers in RF are all we have to go on.

And that's going to be a big issue.

 

If Rios could put up a .800 OPS for the next 5 seasons and give you fairly good defense in CF, and you don't give up much for him, would you make the deal?

[WCSox]

Here's something interesting I just looked up. Remember last season when the Twins claimed Jerrod Washburn on waivers? There were many who speculated Seattle would just let him go, but they pulled him back after a trade couldn't be agreed upon.

 

Washburn comes back this season and has a real nice year, and is traded at the deadline for 2 pitchers without much major league experience. Luke French and some A ball guy.

 

Was this wait worth it for Seattle?

 

Contending really was a pipedream. Although they did get 2 pitchers, wouldn't they have been better off saving or reinvesting the almost $10 million they wound up paying Washburn?

 

Considering Rios is owed a lot more than that, I think if the White Sox claimed him, they are going to get him.

 

You're probably right. Kenny wouldn't have put in a claim for him if he wasn't prepared to eat all $60 million of that deal, and the Jays have little incentive to pull him back.

 

Do the names Randy Winn, Bobby Abreu, Coco Crisp, Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, Johnny Damon, Matt Holliday, Mike Cameron do anything for you?

 

Only Holliday and Bay seem like good long-term investments. And there is going to be a huge bidding war over those two, so good luck with that. Abreu would be a nice stopgap, but the Sox are better off going with somebody younger, IMO.

 

[Kalapse]

And that's going to be a big issue.

 

If Rios could put up a .800 OPS for the next 5 seasons and give you fairly good defense in CF, and you don't give up much for him, would you make the deal?

In a heart beat.

[PeavyTime]

I don't see it. Either we don't get him or Rios doesn't waive his NTC. Think about it. You think Ozzie is going to bench Pods for him? How about Quentin or Dye. I say fat chance.

It only took 60 seconds for someone else to say it.

[ILMOU]

Well, he can get out of the Rios contract if he wishes right here, and if not trading the best pitcher in baseball makes you a bad GM, it may be one of the more difficult jobs ever created. The Wells deal was bad, but every GM has given bad contracts. Maybe not 9 figures bad, but as I said earlier, if Toronto was in the AL Central, they would be right in the race right now, if not out in front.

 

You defend of a GM with Ricciardi's spotty record, while you find room to constantly criticize the far more successful KW. Curious.