Swingandalongonetoleft Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 11:08 PM) Javy is just one of those guys that stats people can never understand, and he's the perfect example of why you need to watch a baseball game. His WHIP is always pretty low, his K/9 is always very high, his BB/9 is always very low, so people look at the numbers and can't figure out what is wrong. Whoever it is that has the sig talking about Javy trying to patent the phrase "one bad pitch" and "one bad inning" is right on. He totally loses confidence and faith in his stuff and ends up throwing the wrong pitch in the wrong count (he'll throw a f***ing hanging curve 2-1/3-1 after he'd been dominating with his FB + CH), and often after getting into a jam by walking the speey #1/#2/#9 hitter after going 0-2 on him and then getting fancy trying to strike him out. This discussion always reminds me a bit of the manned v. unmanned warplanes debate. I trust my eyes (or better yet, those of a professional scout/one who has made it a career to evaluate talent) infinity times over dude who sits in front of computer with cheetos and mountain dew quoting bipaps, worps, verhoogs/9 and other things that are straight out of harry potter at me. Such ridiculous sounding things can be useful but can't and shouldn't be used to judge ballplayers like the Bible is used to judge sinners. Edited August 10, 2009 by Swingandalongonetoleft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Contreras is not atrocious. He just isn't. I will sip on my appletinis while watching my 2005 world series dvd, and you all can keep arguing about Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Contreras is not atrocious. He just isn't. I will sip on my appletinis while watching my 2005 world series dvd, and you all can keep arguing about Jose. greg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Jose seems to have more mechanical issues than most pitchers. He can't seem to repeat his motion and is easily off track with his wildness. Hawk was talking about how Jose noticed some mechanical flaws and told Hawk thought he had corrected them, and would throw well again. And esterday, he threw like he had after coming back from AAA for the first 4 innings. Jose seemed to tire in the 5th. Maybe part of it was Jose hadn't been going deep into games lately. But right now, the sox don't have a 5th SP, let alone a better option to replace Jose for the 4th spot at this point. IF Jose had not shown any improvement, I do think the sox would be looking for another option, though. But Jose should and probably will turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2009 -> 11:42 PM) I don't think there is any doubt that we failed with Javy. I have a feeling we did improve his mental makeup a bit, and perhaps the Braves were able to turn the corner with him on his mechanics. There is no denying that he has been an absolute horse this year, experience a renaissance of sorts. Granted he is pitching in a pitcher's park, in a weaker league. But anyone who wants to rip on Javy needs to have the same concerns with Jake Peavy. Their situations are quite similar. Similar? I've never read where Peavy is a mental midget like I've been reading about Javy for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 01:08 AM) Don't forget he wasn't exactly an ace his first three years with Montreal either. BTW I'm not saying Javy is a bad pitcher either. He's actually very good. But, Javy is a #2-#4 depending on the season and Peavy is typically a #1-#2. Javy has always had the ability to be an ace but after watching him pitch here we all can see why that hasn't happened for him. Javy is just one of those guys that stats people can never understand, and he's the perfect example of why you need to watch a baseball game. His WHIP is always pretty low, his K/9 is always very high, his BB/9 is always very low, so people look at the numbers and can't figure out what is wrong. Whoever it is that has the sig talking about Javy trying to patent the phrase "one bad pitch" and "one bad inning" is right on. He totally loses confidence and faith in his stuff and ends up throwing the wrong pitch in the wrong count (he'll throw a f***ing hanging curve 2-1/3-1 after he'd been dominating with his FB + CH), and often after getting into a jam by walking the speey #1/#2/#9 hitter after going 0-2 on him and then getting fancy trying to strike him out. Chisox Sonix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Regardless of how well Javy is doing this year, he never stepped up while with the Sox when it was crucial for him to do so. After last season, it was almost unanimous here that Javy should go and not many b****ed when he was traded. Personally, I don't miss him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I vote for zero. He's f***ing terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 javy Vazquez is a very good pitcher. I think the problem with him has always been that he doesn't believe in his stuff enough and would work himself out of the game when things started to get a bit dicey.. Contreras is all about mechanics and everything must always be just right. When he is in the groove he is lights out and when not it's an electrical failure if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 10:57 AM) javy Vazquez is a very good pitcher. I think the problem with him has always been that he doesn't believe in his stuff enough and would work himself out of the game when things started to get a bit dicey.. Contreras is all about mechanics and everything must always be just right. When he is in the groove he is lights out and when not it's an electrical failure if you will. I won't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 11:58 AM) I won't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Jose is 4-11. That is a horrible record. It will be wonderful next year with him pitching for somebody else. How's Javy doing these days? I never said Jose was "atrocious" just that 4-11 is a horrible record, which it is and it will be nice having him out of here next year. I don't think he's astrocious and I won't take the bait lest I get banned. See the warning which I've heeded in the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTank Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 09:13 AM) I vote for zero. He's f***ing terrible. I'm REALLY missing Clayton Richard now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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