White Sox Should Make a Run at Billy Wagner

[Milkman delivers]

And Neal Cotts sat around in the bullpen saying "come on fellas, gather around and I will tell you a tale of what it is like to pitch in the ALCS"

 

Joe Buck made a similar comment in the final game of the ALCS that year.

 

They had a shot of the Sox relievers sitting on a bench, and Buck said something like, "Neal Cotts is telling the other relievers what it's like to pitch in the ALCS."

Edited August 14, 2009 by Milkman delivers

[son of a rude]

Joe Buck made a similar comment in the final game of the ALCS that year.

 

They had a shot of the Sox relievers sitting on a bench, and Buck said something like, "Neal Cotts is telling the other relievers what it's like to pitch in the ALCS."

Ah, Joe Buck. Almost as bad and listening to Joe Morgon and that fat white guy.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

$4M for ~40 games is a pretty significant amount of money to give to a reliever. We as Sox fans complain about Linebrink and Dotel and they get that for an entire season.

Exactly. If a team is already at its max payroll-wise then does Wagner sell enough tickets/food/merchandise etc. to offset the $4M or whatever left owed? Probably not, especially for a contender that has already made additions that factored in a projected late-season surge in sales. Ownership groups do not like to lose money, and there have been and will be in the future far better players who will clear waivers simply because another $1M or so puts them on the wrong side of their projections.

 

Remember last year how we didn't claim Chad Bradford or Paul Byrd when each player could conceivably have helped us and would have only cost a little over a million or less? Even if Wagner has not hit waivers yet and is about to shortly, there will be contending teams that will be forced to let him go unclaimed, and even if he made it through the NL to us I doubt the Sox would claim him after the Peavy and Rios additions. The Yankees have said they can't add salary. Are they bluffing? Maybe, but they made no significant additions. Boston added salary with VMart and is eating the contracts of Lugo, Smoltz, and Kotsay, possibly others. The Dodgers brought in Sherrill (could that be the end of the leftover Manny money?) and the Cards added both DeRosa and Holliday. The Phils already brought in Cliff Lee's contract. It's no given Wagner gets claimed by anyone. Baez clearing at less than half the price of Wagner I think sends that message, as a lot of teams out there could use another solid righty in the bullpen.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[WCSox]

$4M for ~40 games is a pretty significant amount of money to give to a reliever. We as Sox fans complain about Linebrink and Dotel and they get that for an entire season.

 

Total salary on a contract is a lot more important than dollars per game. When the Sox traded for Peavy, nobody cared about the Sox over-paying him to pitch for only one month this year. The problem was the $70 million or so owed to him over the course of the contract.

 

If you're in a the playoff hunt, the 40 games in August/September or September/October are worth a lot more than 40 games in April/May. If contending teams weren't willing to over-pay for good players in July or August, we wouldn't see numerous trades after the All Star break every year.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Total salary on a contract is a lot more important than dollars per game. When the Sox traded for Peavy, nobody cared about the Sox over-paying him to pitch for only one month this year. The problem was the $70 million or so owed to him over the course of the contract.

 

If you're in a the playoff hunt, the 40 games in August/September or September/October are worth a lot more than 40 games in April/May. If contending teams weren't willing to over-pay for good players in July or August, we wouldn't see numerous trades after the All Star break every year.

What he's saying (I think) is that for teams near, at, or over their budgets, about 40 games isn't enough to offset the remaining cost of the contract.

[WCSox]

What he's saying (I think) is that for teams near, at, or over their budgets, about 40 games isn't enough to offset the remaining cost of the contract.

 

I don't think that there are THAT many contenders who are at or over their budgets. Remember Kenny complaining that the Sox were at their budget limit two months ago? Baseball attendance isn't down anywhere near what was predicted back in March. I could easily see a team like the Phillies, Dodgers, or Cardinals (who are going to draw well over 3 million this year) add another $4M to their books if they think that Wagner will get them into the playoffs (and possibly further).

 

If the Mets don't move Wagner, it'll be because either nobody is convinced that he'll be able to pitch at a high level for the next two months or because Minaya wants too much in return. The $4M is of lesser importance to a number of contending NL teams.

 

Edited August 14, 2009 by WCSox

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I don't think that there are THAT many contenders who are at or over their budgets. Remember Kenny complaining that the Sox were at their budget limit two months ago? Baseball attendance isn't down anywhere near what was predicted back in March. I could easily see a team like the Phillies, Dodgers, or Cardinals (who are going to draw well over 3 million this year) add another $4M to their books if they think that Wagner will get them into the playoffs (and possibly further).

 

If the Mets don't move Wagner, it'll be because either nobody is convinced that he'll be able to pitch at a high level for the next two months or because Minaya wants too much in return.

The Kenny comments were odd, but apparently he had enough for Peavy because he was allowed to pick him up in May. Kenny never plays his hand so we can only guess, but it's not all that far-fetched to me to picture JR agreeing to accept a small loss this season knowing that it will save Kenny and the Sox from overpaying for similar or lesser players over the offseason through trade or FA. Everyone loves to talk about how cheap JR is, but we don't know that, and Kenny has a great relationship with him obviously.

 

I could see other teams adding that much too if it makes sense and IF they have the budget to do so. But how come nobody wanted Baez for free minus the contract then? Because that's all a waiver claim is basically; a team agrees to take on the contract by making a claim and isn't obligated to give up anything. So why would all these teams pass on a guy like that who is already healthy and has been throwing well all season and then give up more than twice that amount for a guy who hasn't pitched in over a year and is currently on a minor league rehab assignment after Tommy John?

 

And about those other teams:

 

The Cards haven't been a huge spender for the last couple of years, and they usually always go bargain hunting. DeRosa and Holliday was a HUGE commitment from them and why would we think they have money left?

 

The Phils had a very large payroll going into this season - actually, in the offseason they wanted Nomar and a few other guys for a bench spot but couldn't afford to give them more than the minimum. I believe they even came out and said they were already over budget at the time. Now, this is a team that in the offseason would have projected increases much higher than they normally would have because they just came off a WS title. So they were already at their max to begin the season, and then they added Cliff Lee on top of it. Whatever extra they would have gotten beyond their projections is probably gone in their case.

 

The Dodgers we don't know about at all. They saved some money because they didn't have to pay Manny during his suspension, but they also added Sherrill. Maybe they have enough room to take on another $4M, no one but the Dodgers people know, but again, why Wagner? Why a guy who is owed so much and has been off so long? They'd have to feel very, very good about it to do so and a move like that probably takes them out of other waiver possibilities.

[chw42]

Wagner won't make it through waivers.

 

There's teams in the NL that need bullpen help.

[Balta1701]

Wagner won't make it through waivers.

 

There's teams in the NL that need bullpen help.

Most of us are guessing he probably already cleared, maybe 2 weeks ago. No one would have claimed him before seeing him pitch a few times.

[chw42]

Most of us are guessing he probably already cleared, maybe 2 weeks ago. No one would have claimed him before seeing him pitch a few times.

 

If that's the case, why not?

 

Kenny's already spending a bunch.

 

[DBAHO]

First of all you make sure that he's completely healthy and throwing at the same velocity as he was before the injury.

 

Don't want another B.J Ryan situation here.

 

But also Minaya is under a LOT of pressure in NY, and there are big rumors that he'll be replaced as GM at the end of the season, so I wonder what impact that would have on negotiations.

[chisox2334]

He get claimed by national league team first before us.

[Milkman delivers]

First of all you make sure that he's completely healthy and throwing at the same velocity as he was before the injury.

 

Don't want another B.J Ryan situation here.

 

But also Minaya is under a LOT of pressure in NY, and there are big rumors that he'll be replaced as GM at the end of the season, so I wonder what impact that would have on negotiations.

 

And rightfully so. The guy has done nothing to earn that job.

[chunk23]

That debatable. I can't remember a team more ravaged by injuries as this year's Mets. Do they even have anyone from the starting lineup left? The Mets from the beginning of the season is a contending team, clearly it isn't the case anymore. They should fire the medical staff before they fire Minaya. Look at what has happened with Reyes. He's out for a week with "cramps", then strains, now there are ligament tears.

[WCSox]

And rightfully so. The guy has done nothing to earn that job.

 

At the very least, he's done nothing to keep it. He had an open checkbook for free agents, his best young players were developed under Phillips and Duquette, his team got punked an by inferior Cardinals squad in the '06 NLCS, and the way that he dangled Willie Randolph in front of the NY media to deflect attention away from himself was classless.

 

[Milkman delivers]

At the very least, he's done nothing to keep it. He had an open checkbook for free agents, his best young players were developed under Phillips and Duquette, his team got punked an by inferior Cardinals squad in the '06 NLCS, and the way that he dangled Willie Randolph in front of the NY media to deflect attention away from himself was classless.

 

Yes, that's what I meant.

[EvilJester99]

Wagner Placed On Waivers

By Eddie Schmid [August 19 at 7:29pm CST]

 

According to Jayson Stark at ESPN, the Mets have placed former closer Billy Wagner on waivers with the hopes that they can unload him to another team. Stark says Wagner's imminent return could be considered a "glorified audition."

 

If Wagner were to be claimed, that team would be on the hook for the roughly $2.7MM remaining on his contract this year as well as the $1MM buyout on his option for next year. So if Wagner clears, which he most likely will, it looks like the Mets will be forced to pay a good chunk of the money he's due if they're going to move him.

 

It'll be interesting to see how Wagner performs upon his return. Should he rebound, who does he make the most sense for?

[EvilJester99]

So if Wags just went on waivers there is no way he makes it out of the NL

[CanOfCorn]

So if Wags just went on waivers there is no way he makes it out of the NL

 

I know we've talked about this before, but I thought the waiver process went to the opposite league first...no?

[EvilJester99]

I know we've talked about this before, but I thought the waiver process went to the opposite league first...no?

No he will go through the NL first then the AL....Worst to first in each

[CanOfCorn]

No he will go through the NL first then the AL....Worst to first in each

 

Yeah, I knew the worst to first. Wasn't sure about the leagues. Thanks.

[WCSox]

So if Wags just went on waivers there is no way he makes it out of the NL

 

I find it somewhat difficult to believe that Wagner may have been put on waivers two weeks ago, but it wasn't leaked until now. My guess is that Minaya held him back and hoped that he'd progress in his rehab stints to the point where he'd have some trade value.

 

[Leonard Zelig]

I find it somewhat difficult to believe that Wagner may have been put on waivers two weeks ago, but it wasn't leaked until now. My guess is that Minaya held him back and hoped that he'd progress in his rehab stints to the point where he'd have some trade value.

 

Well supposedly almost every player gets placed on waivers, so it really would not be newsworthy unless he was claimed.

[Buehrle>Wood]

So if Wags just went on waivers there is no way he makes it out of the NL

 

No. He'll almost certainly clear. We won't put in a claim, either.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

Well supposedly almost every player gets placed on waivers, so it really would not be newsworthy unless he was claimed.

 

Ya I saw Robbie Cano cleared waivers. God I'd love to have claimed him.