Michael Vick Talk

[Kyyle23]

I'll say it again. I'll support Vick this season. Still one of my favorite players. I have a dog as well, but I really do believe that his punishment was way too severe. People kill animals every day in this country.

 

 

And I will reiterate, his punishment was not only because he killed dogs. It was also because he financed a drug ring, lied to a grand jury, lied to his immediate boss(the falcons) and to the commissioner.

[Chisoxfn]

Oh I should point out that I think Ray Lewis is a big fat piece of scum. Knew he did something bad, didn't know he murdered the guy, but clearly he might have.

[kjshoe04]

And I will reiterate, his punishment was not only because he killed dogs. It was also because he financed a drug ring, lied to a grand jury, lied to his immediate boss(the falcons) and to the commissioner.

I understand that. His jail sentence was enough punishment. The fact that he has to sit out the first six games of this season is what I think is overkill. Isn't two full seasons enough?

[Kyyle23]

I understand that. His jail sentence was enough punishment. The fact that he has to sit out the first six games of this season is what I think is overkill. Isn't two full seasons enough?

 

I agree that what has happened to him has been some overkill. But i dont like the "It was just a dog" excuse. It wasnt just a dog, it was much more than that. The dogs are the sympathetic figures that blew Vick's case out of the water. He still broke a LOT of laws and straight up lied to a lot of people that could have helped him right now.

[Soxbadger]

I think Vick's treatment is some what hypocritical.

 

First of all, im not sure where this "drug" ring idea is coming from.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3148549

 

I see no mention of vick and drug ring, and I really doubt that the federal govt would not even charge him with those crimes. But Im not an expert on the subject, so I would be interested to see where its coming from.

 

Secondly in regards to vick "ruthlessly killing animals", should Mark Buehrle be suspended from baseball for "ruthlessly killing" deers and other animals when he hunts?

 

Its hypocritical to value some animals more than other animals, so if we are really outraged by the barbaric acts of killing animals, we should be outraged equally by all those who hunt and kill animals.

 

Why do they hunt?

 

For sport and entertainment purposes.

 

Why did vick have dogs fight?

 

For sport and entertainment purposes.

 

I dont think what vick did is right, but I certainly do not think that killing an animal (regardless of how heinous) could ever rise to the level of killing a human.

 

And for everyone who is saying "Oh Stallworth made a mistake, weve all driven drunk" maybe thats true. but if vick said that "oh everyone I know dog fights, it was just a mistake" would it really matter?

 

The answer is no. Stallworth has millions of dollars and access to a program called safe ride where a NFL player can get a ride at any time.

 

He killed a man because he just didnt care about following the law.

[Kyyle23]

I think Vick's treatment is some what hypocritical.

 

First of all, im not sure where this "drug" ring idea is coming from.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3148549

 

I see no mention of vick and drug ring, and I really doubt that the federal govt would not even charge him with those crimes. But Im not an expert on the subject, so I would be interested to see where its coming from.

 

Secondly in regards to vick "ruthlessly killing animals", should Mark Buehrle be suspended from baseball for "ruthlessly killing" deers and other animals when he hunts?

 

Its hypocritical to value some animals more than other animals, so if we are really outraged by the barbaric acts of killing animals, we should be outraged equally by all those who hunt and kill animals.

 

Why do they hunt?

 

For sport and entertainment purposes.

 

Why did vick have dogs fight?

 

For sport and entertainment purposes.

 

I dont think what vick did is right, but I certainly do not think that killing an animal (regardless of how heinous) could ever rise to the level of killing a human.

 

And for everyone who is saying "Oh Stallworth made a mistake, weve all driven drunk" maybe thats true. but if vick said that "oh everyone I know dog fights, it was just a mistake" would it really matter?

 

The answer is no. Stallworth has millions of dollars and access to a program called safe ride where a NFL player can get a ride at any time.

 

He killed a man because he just didnt care about following the law.

 

 

The drug ring was the buddies that were busted. Taylor and all of those guys. And all of them were existing on Vicks dime

[nitetrain8601]

Obviously you have not owned too many dogs in your life...

 

What Vick did is despicable.

 

I echo what an earlier poster who claimed what Stallworth did was not nearly as bad.

 

Tens of thousands of people drive intoxicated in this country every night. Our culture practically encourages it. And while I am not in any means condoning what Stallworth did, there are plenty among us who commit the same crime as he, but have been lucky enough to avoid the circumstances that have ruined his life. What he did was probably the result of a few hours of very poor judgment - the same poor judgment that so many others are giuilty of.

 

And yet what Vick did was far more gruesome. Something that required premeditation, an execution of a business plan, etc. I'm not going to claim he hasn't served his time; he obviously has paid an extraordinary price for his crimes. But to claim that because his victims were animals, his actions were somehow far lower on the spectrum of despicable acts than what Stallworth did, because his victim was a human being, simply does not compute to me.

 

I wish him well, despite the fact that I would love hang tbones from every orifice of his body and let a pack of rabid wolves tear him to pieces.

 

I'm sure if your wife was ran over by a drunk and high driver who shouldn't have been driving at all, and was struck and killed, you would not even think twice about Dante's actions being much worse.

 

Your argument that it happens everyday is stupid IMO. Humans die every day, yes. So do dogs die everyday. We kills animals for food. Animals die a lot more than humans on a daily basis. Do we care about animals? Yes, but i'm sure if your dog died, you'd be less hurt about it then your wife. Vick's actions aren't anywhere near that of Dante's and I was a way bigger fan of Stallworth's as I followed him when he got drafted by the Saints.

 

[nitetrain8601]

I think Vick's treatment is some what hypocritical.

 

First of all, im not sure where this "drug" ring idea is coming from.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3148549

 

I see no mention of vick and drug ring, and I really doubt that the federal govt would not even charge him with those crimes. But Im not an expert on the subject, so I would be interested to see where its coming from.

 

Secondly in regards to vick "ruthlessly killing animals", should Mark Buehrle be suspended from baseball for "ruthlessly killing" deers and other animals when he hunts?

 

Its hypocritical to value some animals more than other animals, so if we are really outraged by the barbaric acts of killing animals, we should be outraged equally by all those who hunt and kill animals.

 

Why do they hunt?

 

For sport and entertainment purposes.

 

Why did vick have dogs fight?

 

For sport and entertainment purposes.

 

I dont think what vick did is right, but I certainly do not think that killing an animal (regardless of how heinous) could ever rise to the level of killing a human.

 

And for everyone who is saying "Oh Stallworth made a mistake, weve all driven drunk" maybe thats true. but if vick said that "oh everyone I know dog fights, it was just a mistake" would it really matter?

 

The answer is no. Stallworth has millions of dollars and access to a program called safe ride where a NFL player can get a ride at any time.

 

He killed a man because he just didnt care about following the law.

 

THANK YOU! Preach man. And just to add, no we have not all driven drunk. I for one have never driven drunk and if everyone in my circle is drunk, we take the public transportation. So please, do not try to group everyone by saying culture.

 

[nitetrain8601]

The drug ring was the buddies that were busted. Taylor and all of those guys. And all of them were existing on Vicks dime

 

If they had a drug ring, they had a drug ring. Don't say it was Vick's fault. He had too much money to care about drug dealing. The dog fighting had to do moreso with sport and finding something for him to do.

[Kyyle23]

If they had a drug ring, they had a drug ring. Don't say it was Vick's fault. He had too much money to care about drug dealing. The dog fighting had to do moreso with sport and finding something for him to do.

 

So it doesnt matter that he was paying them money and they were financing a drug ring out of his house that he also was running a dog fighting ring out of?

 

He was the kingpin of this operation. Sorry

[nitetrain8601]

So it doesnt matter that he was paying them money and they were financing a drug ring out of his house that he also was running a dog fighting ring out of?

 

He was the kingpin of this operation. Sorry

 

If your mother gives you money, and you use the money to finance drugs so you can re-sell them and you get caught for dealing drugs, is your mom as guilty as you for operating a drug ring if she didn't know about it? And don't say it's unrealistic because it is very realistic. I've seen it happen with my own eyes for a lot of friends.

[Kyyle23]

If your mother gives you money, and you use the money to finance drugs so you can re-sell them and you get caught for dealing drugs, is your mom as guilty as you for operating a drug ring if she didn't know about it? And don't say it's unrealistic because it is very realistic. I've seen it happen with my own eyes for a lot of friends.

 

 

If your buddies fight dogs, and you give them money to fight dogs, and provide dogs to them to fight other dogs, are you guilty for financing a dog fighting ring?

 

Well, Michael Vick was. I saw it happen right in front of my eyes.

 

 

Why do you keep speaking on Vicks behalf like you know who he is and what happened here? You think he didnt know his buddies were dealing dope out of his own house? The same guy who failed a drug test before going to prison didnt know that the tons of cash he was giving these morons wasnt going to drugs?

 

Whatever nite

Edited August 14, 2009 by KyYlE23

[SoxFan562004]

If your mother gives you money, and you use the money to finance drugs so you can re-sell them and you get caught for dealing drugs, is your mom as guilty as you for operating a drug ring if she didn't know about it? And don't say it's unrealistic because it is very realistic. I've seen it happen with my own eyes for a lot of friends.

well, if he absolutely knew zero about it or there was a zero chance that the people were going to do illegal actions with the money then I agree with you, but if I'm giving money to some friends I would have a good idea where it's going to go... also, he's a multi-million dollar athlete who has some responsability to the NFL, the team he played for and the sponsors, so it's not quite the same in my eyes.

 

Look, to me it's not if you kill someone you're bad and everything else I'm going to let slide. He bankrolled and knew a vicous dog fighting ring was taking place on his property and he viciously killed animals. Yes he served his jail time, still under the court's supervision for a few years I believe, but there's a difference between the criminal justice system and the world's opinion of people. Because O.J. was found not guilty in the criminal justice system does that mean he didn't do it? No, people can still believe he did. The criminal justice system is one aspect of how crimes are dealt with, granted the major one, but people are allowed to have their opinions on people once their "sentence" is done.

 

I still think he's a horrible inhumane person who probably needs more than a year or two to completely turn around. If you haven't, take a second and read some of the accounts of what he did, he is/was a truly sick human. They would take pet dogs from the neighborhood so they're fighting dogs can practice killing, not to mention Vick personally killing dogs. To me that shows a pattern of a disturbed person.

 

I am thrilled the Bears didn't sign him and I wish the NFL would have given him another year to prove he's on the right track. Corporations and the government can decide they don't want to hire somebody because he or she is an ex-felon. I would have had zero problem if the NFL said he was banned for life, as well as Stalworth and the others.

[iamshack]

I'm sure if your wife was ran over by a drunk and high driver who shouldn't have been driving at all, and was struck and killed, you would not even think twice about Dante's actions being much worse.

 

Your argument that it happens everyday is stupid IMO. Humans die every day, yes. So do dogs die everyday. We kills animals for food. Animals die a lot more than humans on a daily basis. Do we care about animals? Yes, but i'm sure if your dog died, you'd be less hurt about it then your wife. Vick's actions aren't anywhere near that of Dante's and I was a way bigger fan of Stallworth's as I followed him when he got drafted by the Saints.

 

Oh, right...I suppose Vick's actions would be more on par with those of Leonard Little, since you weren't a fan of his when he got drafted...

[hammerhead johnson]

Vick and his cohorts would steal dogs off the street and sacrifice 'em for the good of their "enterprise".

 

Vick, Peace and Phillips thought it was funny to watch the pit bull dogs belonging to Bad Newz Kennels injure or kill the other dogs

 

Boo this lowlife.

[nitetrain8601]

Oh, right...I suppose Vick's actions would be more on par with those of Leonard Little, since you weren't a fan of his when he got drafted...

 

I didn't know Leonard Little's story all that well, so I can't comment on him. If he killed a human, he's the same as Stallworth. If he killed dogs or animals, I hope he did his sentence and let's move on. The Buehrle hunting analogy is probably the best thought of analogy up here.

[nitetrain8601]

If your buddies fight dogs, and you give them money to fight dogs, and provide dogs to them to fight other dogs, are you guilty for financing a dog fighting ring?

 

Well, Michael Vick was. I saw it happen right in front of my eyes.

 

 

Why do you keep speaking on Vicks behalf like you know who he is and what happened here? You think he didnt know his buddies were dealing dope out of his own house? The same guy who failed a drug test before going to prison didnt know that the tons of cash he was giving these morons wasnt going to drugs?

 

Whatever nite

 

I didn't say he's not guilty of the dogfighting ring. I don't think I've ever implied as much either. And honestly, the guy has several houses, or at least had. You think he'd actually live in the house the whole dogfighting ring was going down in? Hell no. He was living in his own mansion "handling his business". And yeah, there may have been a weed connect for him amongst his friends. I'm pretty sure he didn't know where all his money was going. Not many people making that much money would. I sure as hell wouldn't. So honestly, I don't believe he knew his money was going to drug beyond a recreational, go get me a dimebag, you should have money for it already, type of deal. Now financing the dog ring, he probably did do.

 

My whole thing is this. The guy lost his contract, got suspended without pay from his job, got thrown in jail, did his time there and people still want to crucify him saying he didn't do nearly enough time for entertaining himself with dogfighting. When Dante Stallworth sped down the lanes high and drunk killing a man. If that's the case, let's crucify any hunter out there including our Mark Buehrle and AJ Pierzynski. Wait, they're hunting deer, so it doesn't count, right guys?

[iamshack]

I didn't say he's not guilty of the dogfighting ring. I don't think I've ever implied as much either. And honestly, the guy has several houses, or at least had. You think he'd actually live in the house the whole dogfighting ring was going down in? Hell no. He was living in his own mansion "handling his business". And yeah, there may have been a weed connect for him amongst his friends. I'm pretty sure he didn't know where all his money was going. Not many people making that much money would. I sure as hell wouldn't. So honestly, I don't believe he knew his money was going to drug beyond a recreational, go get me a dimebag, you should have money for it already, type of deal. Now financing the dog ring, he probably did do.

 

My whole thing is this. The guy lost his contract, got suspended without pay from his job, got thrown in jail, did his time there and people still want to crucify him saying he didn't do nearly enough time for entertaining himself with dogfighting. When Dante Stallworth sped down the lanes high and drunk killing a man. If that's the case, let's crucify any hunter out there including our Mark Buehrle and AJ Pierzynski. Wait, they're hunting deer, so it doesn't count, right guys?

 

Go watch a dogfight in person and make the same comparisons.

[Kyyle23]

I dont see the deer hunting connection either. A hunter doesnt want to make the animal suffer for long periods of time, they intend to drop a deer immediately, they try and hit the deer in the heart to put it down immediately. A dog fight is about watching two animals tear themselves apart so you can make money. And most of the time both dogs are alive at the end of the fights, and then they get to be killed by whatever method mentioned in Vicks case. A hunter takes down a deer also to control population, since there are not many natural predators of deer that can effectively control a population, especially in areas like suburban Chicagoland.

 

If you disagree with hunting on principle, then what I am saying wont make any sense and you will disagree with it anyways. If you are an active hunter or at least respect the sport of hunting deer, then you might agree with this.

 

 

And to clarify my position Nite, I also believe Vick has paid his debt to society and career, and this following him 6 games into the season is pretty ridiculous. However, the guy did far more than just kill dogs, which was my earlier point. He had quite the sleazy operation going on, and the people he hung out with were not quality people to have in his life.

 

edit: Plus I feel that him lying to Goodell is the reason that he is getting this extra kick in the ribs.

Edited August 14, 2009 by KyYlE23

[nitetrain8601]

Go watch a dogfight in person and make the same comparisons.

 

Go watch a human lose his life due to recklessness and make your same opinions.

 

There's a double standard going on in America. Let's kill animals for food. Let's kill animals for sport. Whoa whoa whoa, don't touch the dogs you inhumane bastard! Please.

[nitetrain8601]

I dont see the deer hunting connection either. A hunter doesnt want to make the animal suffer for long periods of time, they intend to drop a deer immediately, they try and hit the deer in the heart to put it down immediately. A dog fight is about watching two animals tear themselves apart so you can make money. And most of the time both dogs are alive at the end of the fights, and then they get to be killed by whatever method mentioned in Vicks case. A hunter takes down a deer also to control population, since there are not many natural predators of deer that can effectively control a population, especially in areas like suburban Chicagoland.

 

If you disagree with hunting on principle, then what I am saying wont make any sense and you will disagree with it anyways. If you are an active hunter or at least respect the sport of hunting deer, then you might agree with this.

 

 

And to clarify my position Nite, I also believe Vick has paid his debt to society and career, and this following him 6 games into the season is pretty ridiculous. However, the guy did far more than just kill dogs, which was my earlier point. He had quite the sleazy operation going on, and the people he hung out with were not quality people to have in his life.

 

I understand what your saying and that's my point in the long run. Stop crucifying the guy already. He did his debt, and now let's see if he could resurrect it the same way we're going to see if Dante is. Let's not give this guy more crap, especially when the other guys who have done worse don't get much pub at all.

 

Now we may disagree on the dogfighting/hunting thing, but I just want people to stop giving Vick so much attention for something that's been said and done, and the sentence is over.

[Milkman delivers]

I didn't know Leonard Little's story all that well, so I can't comment on him. If he killed a human, he's the same as Stallworth. If he killed dogs or animals, I hope he did his sentence and let's move on. The Buehrle hunting analogy is probably the best thought of analogy up here.

 

Sure, if you're an idiot.

[Balta1701]

Sure, if you're an idiot.

Watch it folks.

[zenryan]

Oh I should point out that I think Ray Lewis is a big fat piece of scum. Knew he did something bad, didn't know he murdered the guy, but clearly he might have.

 

 

 

And clearly he might not have.

 

 

No one knows what who did what that night but Lewis gets slammed non stop while someone like Marvin Harrison gets the benefit of the doubt.

[Milkman delivers]

Watch it folks.

 

Should I rephrase it to say it's a good analogy if you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about?