Molto Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 http://www.soxnet.net/snreport/372-12.2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 I've been thinking and thinking about this and it has KW written all over it. He fixates on someone he wants (Wells, Ritchie or in this case Koch) and then proceeds to overpay. I just wonder who that minor leaguer will be if this trade happens. Oh well, I guess we'll all find out soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 2, 2002 Author Share Posted December 2, 2002 well, if it is a PTBNL, there shouldn't be any worry to it. those players hardly ever pan out, and if so, it would have to do more with our bad luck than anything else. of course it could be a minor league player, which is where I'm with you and most of the people on this board. if they are gonna trade someone like a Malone per se, they better get a second player in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Typically PTBNL aren't top prospects and if they are a more talented prospects, they are likely injured and the reason they are named Later is because you can't really deal and injured player or most teams don't like to do so. I'm guessing the A's will possibly ask for one of the relievers we acquired from Boston in the Howry deal. Neither of them were super talented and we have a stockpile of relief talent so I'm assuming one reliever not named Ring, Sanders, Almonte or Valentine is the player to be named later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Originally posted by ChisoxfnTypically PTBNL aren't top prospects and if they are a more talented prospects, they are likely injured and the reason they are named Later is because you can't really deal and injured player or most teams don't like to do so. I'm guessing the A's will possibly ask for one of the relievers we acquired from Boston in the Howry deal. Neither of them were super talented and we have a stockpile of relief talent so I'm assuming one reliever not named Ring, Sanders, Almonte or Valentine is the player to be named later. Arnie Munoz should be on that list also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Maybe Ulacia too. That guy could be pretty good... We should give him the second guy in the Lofton trade. Not Diaz, but the other one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Ryan Meaux is who I think your referring too. Although he may of been the guy we got from the Rockies for Sandy Alomar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Originally posted by theoldromanMaybe Ulacia too. That guy could be pretty good... We should give him the second guy in the Lofton trade. Not Diaz, but the other one... Ryan Meaux? He's nothing special...... I wouldn't cry if he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Originally posted by ChisoxfnRyan Meaux is who I think your referring too. Although he may of been the guy we got from the Rockies for Sandy Alomar. No Jason, thats emencino pacheco..... he got lit up while with the warthogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Thast right. Meaux is a lefty right? I know we got one lefty closer and I thought it was Ryan Meaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Yeah thats who I was refering to. We got him and Diaz for Lofton, Emenecino Pacheco for Alomar and Frankie Francisco and Beong An (or something like that) for Bob Howry. I just couldnt remember Meaux of the top of my head. I knew it was something like that but I wasnt sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Is it me or is anyone getting impatient waiting for news on the Billy Koch trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 hey lol theres still 9 hours left in today...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Originally posted by Moltowell, if it is a PTBNL, there shouldn't be any worry to it. those players hardly ever pan out, and if so, it would have to do more with our bad luck than anything else. of course it could be a minor league player, which is where I'm with you and most of the people on this board. if they are gonna trade someone like a Malone per se, they better get a second player in return. Not exactly. Remember, we traded Bradford for a PTBNL, and that guy was Miguel Olivo. I wouldn't be shocked to see Sanders shipped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 2, 2002 Author Share Posted December 2, 2002 I don't think that was a PTBNL. that was Miguel Olivo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 if the sox do this deal then jerry manuel is going to have to change how he manages the bullpen... in the past 4 seasons koch has pitched in 277 games and foulke in 278....but foulke racked up 352 to koch's 305....koch very rarely goes more than an inning in any outing...foulke has 47 more IP in the same amount of games...i dont think koch with his 98mph straight fastball will be a very effective 2 inning pitcher....this t rade also means we will need to strengthen the set up and specialty roles since those guys will have to pick up those extra innings... the more i study this trade the more i dont like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Remember, last season Foulke's role was changed a lot more in terms that he didn't have as many multiple inning outings. Plus, if you watched the way Jerry handled the relievers, it changed drastically late in the season. Near the end he seemed to leave his relievers out their much longer, but during the majority of the season he was very quick with them. Plus, if a manager can't change his style when it comes to a closer, then he shouldn't be managing. The typical closer only goes one inning and thats something ever manager in baseball has to deal with, if Jerry can't, then get his butt out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndyce Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by baggio202if the sox do this deal then jerry manuel is going to have to change how he manages the bullpen... in the past 4 seasons koch has pitched in 277 games and foulke in 278....but foulke racked up 352 to koch's 305....koch very rarely goes more than an inning in any outing...foulke has 47 more IP in the same amount of games...i dont think koch with his 98mph straight fastball will be a very effective 2 inning pitcher....this t rade also means we will need to strengthen the set up and specialty roles since those guys will have to pick up those extra innings... the more i study this trade the more i dont like it Did you watch Koch any this year? Ive always liked him from his days at Toronto. He can go extra innnings alot. Plus with the reliever studs we got coming up, he wouldnt even have togo for more then an inning alot of the time. Especially with the 4 closers we will have in the future. As for his reliability, he blows a save once in awhile. But he is still young, and he will fix that with better pitch control. Plus he scares the s*** out of hitters throwig that stinky cheese all over the plate. Even the great closers like smoltz etc blow their saves also So as you can tell I am a big fan of koch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by johndyce Originally posted by baggio202if the sox do this deal then jerry manuel is going to have to change how he manages the bullpen... in the past 4 seasons koch has pitched in 277 games and foulke in 278....but foulke racked up 352 to koch's 305....koch very rarely goes more than an inning in any outing...foulke has 47 more IP in the same amount of games...i dont think koch with his 98mph straight fastball will be a very effective 2 inning pitcher....this t rade also means we will need to strengthen the set up and specialty roles since those guys will have to pick up those extra innings... the more i study this trade the more i dont like it Did you watch Koch any this year? Ive always liked him from his days at Toronto. He can go extra innnings alot. Plus with the reliever studs we got coming up, he wouldnt even have togo for more then an inning alot of the time. Especially with the 4 closers we will have in the future. As for his reliability, he blows a save once in awhile. But he is still young, and he will fix that with better pitch control. Plus he scares the s*** out of hitters throwig that stinky cheese all over the plate. Even the great closers like smoltz etc blow their saves also So as you can tell I am a big fan of koch i dont dislike koch...i just dont like this deal...you want to add koch to the bullpen as it is thats great..he could the closer and let foulke pitch the 8th and sometimes the 7th and 8th...i love kieth as the set up man anyways..i think he is a little better than koch and could easily rack up 100-110 innings as a set up man..so he would pitch more...then koch would only have to go an inning and would get his 60 -70 innings keeping him fresh... but trading koch for foulke is just like trading david wells for siro???..what did it accomplish???... nothing..same as this trade would.. now throw in MJ and we give up the only catcher on the staff with any real major league experience....olivo ws a sept call up and the most experience paul has had at any one stretch was 1/2 in '00 as a platoon catcher with MJ...he has never spent a full season on a amjor league roster...so while MJ might not be anything special..atleast we know what we got with him...if olivo shows he is not ready and falls on his face..say goodbye to any chance at a division title... then we are giving up another player too??? not a good trade.. now if it was carlos lee for billy koch id be all for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 3, 2002 Author Share Posted December 3, 2002 Lee for Koch would seem smarter for the A's if they had a closer in the waiting. I agree with what you said baggs, it all makes sense, but I think the reason for this is that Koch will be here for a few years, while Foulke won't. also for the fact that Foulke wants to start, while Koch wants to close (or at least accepts it). I don't think we lose or win on this deal. it is very strange. if we add let's say Lee in the deal and get someone like Harang in return (of course it would have to come after thomas' future is settled) I would consider that a trade with a purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeGuy Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Don't you try to trade to improve your team? I don't see how we improve. Billy Botch blows games just like Foulke does, he blew at least 5. His whip is traditionally fairly high because that 100mph sails more than does a change up. Plus we give away a catcher they want and something else? Pull the plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 PTBNL = Joe Valentine + Cash $$$ i think a staple of kenny williams "big trades" is to trade at least 3 players and/or cash for a player somewhere between average and good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 1) HSC should be feeding all those WSI b****es heapin' helpins of crow, especially that stupid twat lip man 2) f*** the white sox, im tired of their idiocy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by Spiff1) HSC should be feeding all those WSI b****es heapin' helpins of crow, especially that stupid twat lip man what'd he say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 along the lines of: "Also to hsc, perhaps it's time to name your "source" and let the readers judge for themselves how real the possibility is. Because frankly if you were in the actual media business you'd be toasted, roasted and fried by now. If you can't (or won't) "name" your source, then information is needed of the individual's position. What are we talking about here? A person say who is an assistant PR staffer with the Sox?, a janitor?, a groundskeeper? Kenny Williams secretary??? Before I can determine your credibility (which right now isn't very high) I need to have a better idea of how authentic the information and source is. Sorry that's the way this business works (and with respect I do know something about it)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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