Stephen Strasburg

[Ozzie Ball]

Nationals got their man. Assuming they get Harper next year, and Jordan Zimmermann is healthy comes 2011 they've got a decent core to build on.

Zimmermann's injury was a tough break, he was easily this years most impressive rookie pitcher for me.

[mmmmmbeeer]

The best young pitcher in the last decade?

 

How does letting him start a few games this season cost them the best young pitcher in the last decade? You must be from the "don't rush them" school.....me, I see a kid with 100MPH heat and a Liriano-esque slider. Stuff wise, he's better than 95% of pitchers in MLB today, I think he'll be alright to start a couple games.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Strasburg + probably Harper next year? If they draft right, that organization can turn around much quicker than people think.

They could have a reall nice core entering 2011.

Strasburg

Jordan Zimmerman

Ryan Zimmerman

Morgan

Dukes

Detwiler

Christopher Marrero

Bryce Harper

Shairon Martis

 

 

[knightni]

Lannan's good too.

[ThunderBolt]

How does letting him start a few games this season cost them the best young pitcher in the last decade? You must be from the "don't rush them" school.....me, I see a kid with 100MPH heat and a Liriano-esque slider. Stuff wise, he's better than 95% of pitchers in MLB today, I think he'll be alright to start a couple games.

This sounds familiar. Oh, yes. Texas pitching phenom David Clyde.

"The Rangers selected Clyde as the first overall pick in the 1973 amateur draft. Rangers owner Bob Short was looking for some sort of spark to boost attendance. In their first year after moving from Washington, D.C., the Rangers had the second-smallest gate in the American League, ahead of only the Cleveland Indians. Clyde agreed to sign a contract, but wanted to make two starts in Arlington before heading to the minors. Clyde won his first ever Major League start, before 37,000 fans--the first sellout in Arlington Stadium history. He pitched well in his next start as well, and the Rangers dropped all plans to send him to the minors. The youngest player to play in a major league game in 1973, Clyde pitched a total of eighteen games (all starts) that season, finishing with a record of 4-8, with a 5.01 ERA.

In the 1974 season, Clyde played in 28 games (21 starts) and finished with 3-9 record, and a 4.38 ERA. He started one game in the 1975 season (a loss) before developing arm trouble and being demoted to the minor leagues. He stayed in the minors for three seasons before being traded (with Willie Horton) to the Cleveland Indians for Tom Buskey and John Lowenstein prior to the 1978 season.

Clyde started for the Indians for most of that year, playing in 28 games (starting 25) and finished with a record of 8-11, with a 4.28 ERA and 83 strikeouts. Clyde also finished fourth in the American League with 11 wild pitches. He pitched in 9 games (8 starts) with the Indians during the 1979 season (3-4, 5.91 ERA) before being demoted to the minors. He was traded back to the Rangers after the 1979 season, but was released prior to the 1980 season.

Clyde tried to restart his career with the Houston Astros for the 1981 season, but never played a game with them.

Many of Clyde's troubles are attributed to the rush to get him into the majors before he was ready. This was due, in part, to Short wanting to sell tickets. The Rangers averaged 27,000 fans in Clyde's six home starts, but 6,000 fans for the other 75 home dates. As it turned out, Clyde's major league debut was the highlight of his career.

Whitey Herzog, Clyde's manager in 1973, said in his 1986 autobiography White Rat that he regretted going along with Short's desire to rush Clyde to the big leagues. According to Herzog, he was often forced to leave Clyde in the game much longer than he felt was normal for a young pitcher because fans wanted to see the 18-year-old "phenom" pitch. This led to Clyde's arm burning out at an early age.

Clyde recently retired from the lumber business.[2]

http://www.answers.com/topic/david-clyde-1

[Ozzie Ball]

For $15M, I think the Nats have done very well there.

 

They stuck to their principles, and came out on top.

 

Now they've finally got something to build around.

It's only for four years though, depending on how the contract is structured, and Strasburg's performances, he could still end up making the $50m they were after over 6 years.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Ozzie Ball

[mmmmmbeeer]

This sounds familiar. Oh, yes. Texas pitching phenom David Clyde.

"The Rangers selected Clyde as the first overall pick in the 1973 amateur draft. Rangers owner Bob Short was looking for some sort of spark to boost attendance. In their first year after moving from Washington, D.C., the Rangers had the second-smallest gate in the American League, ahead of only the Cleveland Indians. Clyde agreed to sign a contract, but wanted to make two starts in Arlington before heading to the minors. Clyde won his first ever Major League start, before 37,000 fans--the first sellout in Arlington Stadium history. He pitched well in his next start as well, and the Rangers dropped all plans to send him to the minors. The youngest player to play in a major league game in 1973, Clyde pitched a total of eighteen games (all starts) that season, finishing with a record of 4-8, with a 5.01 ERA.

In the 1974 season, Clyde played in 28 games (21 starts) and finished with 3-9 record, and a 4.38 ERA. He started one game in the 1975 season (a loss) before developing arm trouble and being demoted to the minor leagues. He stayed in the minors for three seasons before being traded (with Willie Horton) to the Cleveland Indians for Tom Buskey and John Lowenstein prior to the 1978 season.

Clyde started for the Indians for most of that year, playing in 28 games (starting 25) and finished with a record of 8-11, with a 4.28 ERA and 83 strikeouts. Clyde also finished fourth in the American League with 11 wild pitches. He pitched in 9 games (8 starts) with the Indians during the 1979 season (3-4, 5.91 ERA) before being demoted to the minors. He was traded back to the Rangers after the 1979 season, but was released prior to the 1980 season.

Clyde tried to restart his career with the Houston Astros for the 1981 season, but never played a game with them.

Many of Clyde's troubles are attributed to the rush to get him into the majors before he was ready. This was due, in part, to Short wanting to sell tickets. The Rangers averaged 27,000 fans in Clyde's six home starts, but 6,000 fans for the other 75 home dates. As it turned out, Clyde's major league debut was the highlight of his career.

Whitey Herzog, Clyde's manager in 1973, said in his 1986 autobiography White Rat that he regretted going along with Short's desire to rush Clyde to the big leagues. According to Herzog, he was often forced to leave Clyde in the game much longer than he felt was normal for a young pitcher because fans wanted to see the 18-year-old "phenom" pitch. This led to Clyde's arm burning out at an early age.

Clyde recently retired from the lumber business.[2]

http://www.answers.com/topic/david-clyde-1

 

I hear ya, man. There are definitely different schools of thought. I suppose we can be glad that it isn't either of us making those decisions about a talent like Strasburg. It wouldn't be good to be the guy to screw him up.

 

As to your example, in '73 I don't think pitch counts and stress on young arms was a very mainstream conversation. Not to mention Stras is 4 years older with 4 more years of pitching than the kid in your example.

 

[BlackBetsy]

For $15M, I think the Nats have done very well there.

 

They stuck to their principles, and came out on top.

 

Now they've finally got something to build around.

I'm kind of surprised it was under $20 million myself. The Nats clearly won here. $15 million is a record, but it's only marginally higher in real dollars than Prior's deal. I hope he works out for the Nats.

[BlackBetsy]

It's only for four years though, depending on how the contract is structured, and Strasburg's performances, he could still end up making the $50m they were after over 6 years.

I'm curious about this. The rules are generally that those contracts are still subject to the 6 year club control. I guess this takes him through his first year of arbitration. So he possibly could earn $35-$40 before he makes free agency, but in those last two years, he's going to have to demonstrate he's earned it.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know how giving a guy who has never pitched above college $15 million and about 50% more than anyone in that same situation has ever received a win, but I'm glad he signed. I wonder if he'll live up to the hype.

[Texsox]

So Boras got his client 50% more than the previous record. And some people would not want him representing them in negotiations. GMs love you guys.

[lostfan]

So Boras got his client 50% more than the previous record. And some people would not want him representing them in negotiations. GMs love you guys.

I think anybody would want Boras representing them. From a fan perspective he's still really obnoxious though. And sometimes his strategy really does backfire.

[Balta1701]

So Boras got his client 50% more than the previous record. And some people would not want him representing them in negotiations. GMs love you guys.

Factor in inflation and get back to us before you laugh.

[DBAHO]

I don't know how giving a guy who has never pitched above college $15 million and about 50% more than anyone in that same situation has ever received a win, but I'm glad he signed. I wonder if he'll live up to the hype.

Well I think when you consider the numbers that we're being thrown around, and that the #2 pick Ackley who's really not an elite offensive prospect IMO got around $10M, $15M for Strasburg who's argubly the best prospect to ever come out of the draft is pretty good value for money.

 

But it sounds like the owners and even the players want to install a rookie contract system in the next labor negotiations and it could be the #1 issue on the agenda.

[Texsox]

I think anybody would want Boras representing them. From a fan perspective he's still really obnoxious though. And sometimes his strategy really does backfire.

 

You would be surprised. I remember a thread a while back where most said they would not want Boras representing them.

[Kyyle23]

You would be surprised. I remember a thread a while back where most said they would not want Boras representing them.

 

 

I would change that to "some". I remember that thread, it wasnt as 1 sided as you are saying

[Soxbadger]

I wouldnt want Boras representing me.

 

A monkey can negotiate for more money and I would bet that if Strasburg had a different agent (one with a better reputation) the Nationals may have gone up to $20mil. When you look at the crazy money thrown at Japanese players (Kei Igawa, etc and thats not even counting the money going to the former Japanese team) its hard to argue with Strasburg being given that type of money.

 

The problem is that now when teams deal with Boras they are much more likely to draw a line in the sand and not move because to many people fell for his old tricks.

 

I know that if I was a working for a MLB team I would be much more difficult with Boras than any other agent, just because of his tendency to stretch the truth.

[Harry Chappas]

I wouldnt want Boras representing me.

 

A monkey can negotiate for more money and I would bet that if Strasburg had a different agent (one with a better reputation) the Nationals may have gone up to $20mil. When you look at the crazy money thrown at Japanese players (Kei Igawa, etc and thats not even counting the money going to the former Japanese team) its hard to argue with Strasburg being given that type of money.

 

The problem is that now when teams deal with Boras they are much more likely to draw a line in the sand and not move because to many people fell for his old tricks.

 

I know that if I was a working for a MLB team I would be much more difficult with Boras than any other agent, just because of his tendency to stretch the truth.

 

I think Boras in this instance was a hinderance to Strasburg as Washington could just blame it on Boras setting a number that was not reasonable.

[SoxFan562004]

I think Boras in this instance was a hinderance to Strasburg as Washington could just blame it on Boras setting a number that was not reasonable.

I agree with this. If was any other agent and the Nationals didn't sign him Nationals would have been slammed, but if that horrible scenario would have happened they would have gotten somewhat of a pass

[Balta1701]

I think Boras in this instance was a hinderance to Strasburg as Washington could just blame it on Boras setting a number that was not reasonable.

Seriously...I'm actually somewhat surprised that all Strasburg got was a simple $15 million. With inflation it's not like he killed Prior's deal, and baseball's profits have risen a lot faster than inflation. I think that it's entirely possible that Boras's desire to totally upend the system for paying draftee contracts by hinting at $25-50 million may well have cost Stras a couple million.

[Ozzie Ball]

Seriously...I'm actually somewhat surprised that all Strasburg got was a simple $15 million. With inflation it's not like he killed Prior's deal, and baseball's profits have risen a lot faster than inflation. I think that it's entirely possible that Boras's desire to totally upend the system for paying draftee contracts by hinting at $25-50 million may well have cost Stras a couple million.

The fact that it's a four year deal is very significant, I don't want to weigh on the point too much but people still seem to be ignoring it. While it may 'only' be a guaranteed $15 million the deal will be worth substantially more than that if Strasburg lives anywhere close to his billing.

[Soxbadger]

What does the length of time matter, the real money is the bonus:

 

Strasburg will receive a $7.5 million signing bonus with $2.5 million paid 15 days after approval of the contract, $2.5 million paid in January 2010 and another $2.5 million paid in January 2011.

 

He is scheduled to receive a $400,000 salary in 2009, but that is prorated to approximately $100,000. He then will get a $2 million salary in 2010, $2.5 million in 2011 and $3 million in 2012.

 

He only got a $7.5 mil bonus, I would have expected 10mil bonus easily and another 10mil in contract. In fact the way that the contract is structured he most likely will end up as arb eligible the first year that this contract is done, or even worse if he stays in minors for 2 years hed be playing for league minimum in 2013.

 

[WCSox]

Factor in inflation and get back to us before you laugh.

 

To be fair, you also need to factor in the deflation from last year's economic collapse. Free agents weren't getting nearly as much money last winter as they were in previous years.

 

I think that $15 million was about right. If this were the Yankees and Strasburg didn't have an egomaniac douche of an agent starting negotiations at $50 million, he may have gotten closer to $20 million.

 

Realistically, guaranteed money is going to have to plateau at some point. GMs aren't going to pay $30 million 5 years from now for some 22-year-old "phenom" who's never done anything at the major league level. My guess is that MLB imposes a rookie salary cap at some point.

 

[SoxFan562004]

I swear to God this actually happened, Peter Gammons already started the possability that Strasburg could end up with the NYY or Red Sox next year... I will quote as best as I can remember, it was at the end of how the deal ended up happening "if the Nationals can't afford him they can trade him for four players to the Red Sox or Yankees." OK, maybe it's worth mentioning that he would be a trade chip, but only mention the Red Sox or Yankees? Got to love ESPN!

[Chisoxfn]

What does the length of time matter, the real money is the bonus:

 

 

 

He only got a $7.5 mil bonus, I would have expected 10mil bonus easily and another 10mil in contract. In fact the way that the contract is structured he most likely will end up as arb eligible the first year that this contract is done, or even worse if he stays in minors for 2 years hed be playing for league minimum in 2013.

I assume he'll become a FA after that 4 years though, which would be big.