What is your general feeling about the White Sox?

[Soxbadger]

Im part of the 12 Hammerhead.

 

I just cant see how anyone realistically expected this team to be better than .500 going into this season.

 

Pitching: Sox had question marks at 4 and 5th spots in the rotation and were relying on Floyd and Danks to be plus pitchers.

 

Offense: CQ coming off of an injury. Dye, Thome, Konerko each 1 year older. Questions at CF, 2b and 3b.

 

Defense: Questions at 3b, SS, all outfield positions.

 

The only reason the Sox are competitive is because:

 

1) Gordon Beckham. Barely anyone thought hed be playing on the team, let alone becoming a star.

 

2) Pods. No one thought hed do anything, let alone be in the running for the Sox comeback player of the year.

 

3) A few above average starts out of both Colon and Contreras. I for one didnt think wed get anything out of these two, any games they pitch are huge bonuses.

 

Im not sure how realistically you could look at this team in April and say they are underachieving.

 

I personally think they are overachieving most if not all of my expectations from the beginning of the season.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Soxbadger

[The Ginger Kid]

I wish BLOCKHEADS was a choice. I can't recall another Sox team that played defense this poorly or made so many mental errors.

[stretchstretch]

I look at the lineup on paper and I'm ecstatic, factor in that we added Kotsay, Rios, and Peavy, we should all be expecting to take this division at a minimum, we are simply underachieving in a big big way

 

the fact that in the wins we have pulled off of late, PK's name is never mentioned, Dye's name is never mentioned, Quentins name is never mentioned, AJs name is rarely mentioned--if the three veterans from this group were performing to their paygrade and Q was giving 70% of last year, we'd be in 1st by 5 games right now, considering how hard DET is trying to hand this thing to us.

 

 

[maggsmaggs]

The fact that we are 3 games under .500 against our own division gives me enough evidence that we are underachieving in a major way. The division is brutal and we still suck against it.

[everafan]

After yesterdays loss, and yet another failed attempt at a sweep, I was furious. But then I began to think, are the White Sox a great team that underachieves? Or do I just expect too much out of them? Are they really a .500 team even though I expect 90 wins?

 

I personally think they are underachievers. The team we have fielded the past few years has been stacked with talent and we haven't gone anywhere with it. Because of this, I feel that if we don't get anywhere this year, it's time to make some MORE significant moves.

 

Just wanted to know what everyone elses thoughts were.

 

If I had to pick one I'd say underachievers, with a caveat. Normallly a team is built in the off-season. They have ST to learn how to work together and then time to gel during the season. This team was built in-season. I really feel we have the best team in the division - and maybe beyond that. But they simply may not have enough time to pull it all together.

[greg775]

They are a team that is sloppy and undisciplined. A team with talent but no ability to come through in the clutch. A team with about 4 or 5 DHs in their lineup and a lower half of the pitching staff that would have won the Cy Young in 1999.

But they're MY team, so whatchagonnado?

 

I would agree with every word. Also with the poster who said the team is like his golf game. Two facets will be good on a given day; one bad. I think we should win this awful division, case closed.

I sort of keep expecting to be six or seven out one day soon and that will be that.

Hope I'm wrong. Detroit is definitely not so great and this isn't the Twins year.

[thedoctor]

i think its a good team with three fatal flaws: bad defense, inconsistent bullpen, and a propensity for the dumb play. those will keep it from being an elite team and more than likely enjoying any extended success in the postseason.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

The Sox are right about where I thought they would be, I expected them to win 83-85 games. s***, we won 88 games last year, how could everyone expect us to win more than that this year? We lost Vazquez (i'm not saying I didn't like the trade, but we would be a better team THIS year with Javy), gave away Swisher and decided to go with Dewayne f***ing wise in CF.

 

 

[WCSox]

The Sox are right about where I thought they would be, I expected them to win 83-85 games. s***, we won 88 games last year, how could everyone expect us to win more than that this year? We lost Vazquez (i'm not saying I didn't like the trade, but we would be a better team THIS year with Javy), gave away Swisher and decided to go with Dewayne f***ing wise in CF.

 

We also lost the really good bullpen that we had for the first 2/3 of last season.

 

[VAfan]

The Sox have underachieved on many levels.

 

1. Defense. It's horrible. We were leading baseball in unearned runs at one point. Haven't checked to see if we still are. If we made the postseason now, this one factor could sink us.

 

2. We don't pound the weak teams or our division rivals. We have a losing record against the AL Central (24-27). Sure, we're 13-12 against the AL East, but losing to the Central is more costly.

 

3. We can't get on any kind of winning streak. In the second half, 3 wins in a row, and 5 of 6 is our best stretch. On the year, 6 games in a row and 8 of 9 is our high. I really want this little stretch against Oakland, KC and Baltimore to match that.

 

4. The pitching is inconsistent. If it's not the starters, then it is the bullpen.

 

5. We don't win close games. (15-20 in 1-run games.)

 

6. The hitting was pathetic early. Now, despite there being no real holes, it is still inconsistent. When we had DeWayne Wise and/or Brian Anderson in the lineup, along with Josh Fields, and no Carlos Quentin, the Sox had real gaps. Now we have an extra outfielder -- Rios -- and no automatic outs in the lineup. Yet we still can't get more than 2 runs on pitchers with ERAs above 5 runs/game.

 

**************

If you go down the line and compare this team to 2005, the contrast is stark. That team was incredibly consistent and tenacious. By the end of the year, they would find a way to beat you, every night, by just enough. Great pitching. Stellar defense. Just enough offense and clutch hits to win. Led during the team's first 37 games. Won first game, last game, and first game after All-Star break 1-0, with 3 different starters on the mound. Incredible record in 1-run games. Just pounded the crap out of weak teams.

 

I'm starting to think this team isn't going to catch the Tigers. By the time we wake up, the Tigers might get on their own little stretch of good play, so playing better is no guarantee we'll pass them. You can't count on the last 9 games of the year (6 against Detroit) being the time to catch them.

 

We're still running Jose out there, for goodness sakes. And now we're counting on Freddy Garcia to rescue our 5th starter's role. I think this team may have to go to a 4-man rotation again, but if we did we'd burn out the starters by the postseason.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but I think it needs to start with better fundamentals. Catching the ball. Solid pitching. Running the bases well. Situational hitting. Just not sure this team is up to it.

[Melissa1334]

This team just needs a spark of some sort(bench clearing brawl,ozzie getting tossed,or AJ to stir something)it just seems like there flat and outta of it sometimes,or maybe stir something up by saying jenks you are now the set-up man for Thornton!!!!!!

 

Or Peavy goes out and dominates the cubbies and we take off from there!!!!!

 

 

BUT this team is WAY better than what it is showing and maybe we get hot at the right time like 05

ozzie getting tossed wont do anything and peavy will not pitch against the cubs. and why do ppl say maybe about bringing back thome and dye? we'll be the same like this yr

[thedoctor]

kw goes with option a:

 

"We've thrown away about a dozen games this year, where we would be where I thought we would be, which is in first place and in a good position. But we deserved what we got. I'm not happy with a lot of what I see. We're underachievers."

 

trib blog

[Dick Allen]

KW says underachievers, per the Tribune:

 

By Dave van Dyck

 

Rain was falling as U. S. Cellular Field, delaying the start of a White Sox homestand Monday night against Kansas City.

 

General manager Kenny Williams got the evening off to a pointed start by criticizing his team after a 3-3 road trip to Seattle and Oakland.

 

"I'm not happy with the road trip," Williams said. "We lost two games we should have won, which [would put] us in first place by a half game. We've thrown away about a dozen games this year, where we would be where I thought we would be, which is in first place and in a good position

 

"But we deserved what we got. I'm not happy with a lot of what I see. We're underachievers."

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Uh oh...

 

Kenny's feathers are looking ruffled!

 

BTW voted "underachievers" because that's what we are. We throw games away and we do it in such a fashion that lays blame on portions of our attack that don't deserve as much blame. Like, our relievers blow a game where the opposition scores less than 3 runs, and the relievers look like s*** and take blame away from the pathetic offense. Or we make errors that pitchers do not pitch over which then makes the pitching staff look worse. Or we fail to score in key situations, but still end up scoring like 5+ runs in a loss, and the offense takes a large portion of the blame despite the pitching and defense being below average or worse.

 

If this team could ever find some level of consistency we'd win a lot of ballgames. Hopefully Peavy and Freddy (and maybe Hudson) give us the boost we need to make it through September on top.

 

If we win this thing it's going to go down to the wire, which is unfortunate because then we'd have trouble setting our playoff rotation based on more favorable matchups vs. the Yankees. But with 4 starters who don't suck, we should have a chance to win no matter who we start in Game 1 should we get there.

[beck72]

The Sox are by far underachievers. Yet I like the sox talent level better than last year, and think they could do some damage if they get to the playoffs. Last year, the sox were lucky just to get in and were overmatched. The sox talent level has been stepped up, even if the wins haven't been there. And the sox have only had Rios for a short time, Quentin hasn't been the same, and Peavy hasn't thrown an inning.

 

With the Rios and Kotsay additions, the sox position players should be well rested for a late run. That is if the defense and the pitching hold up. The bullpen should be set come Sept., with the roster additions.

 

 

[Drew]

Underachievers.

 

The '09 Sox are making mistakes and losing games that good teams don't. The Twinkies are overachievers because they play fundamentally-sound ball, are well-managed and as such, always seem to rise to the occasion.

 

Alexei Ramirez is a perfect metaphor for this team—talented, capable, even likable—but oft-flaky and unfocused.

[Milkman delivers]

KW says underachievers, per the Tribune:

 

By Dave van Dyck

 

Rain was falling as U. S. Cellular Field, delaying the start of a White Sox homestand Monday night against Kansas City.

 

General manager Kenny Williams got the evening off to a pointed start by criticizing his team after a 3-3 road trip to Seattle and Oakland.

 

"I'm not happy with the road trip," Williams said. "We lost two games we should have won, which [would put] us in first place by a half game. We've thrown away about a dozen games this year, where we would be where I thought we would be, which is in first place and in a good position

 

"But we deserved what we got. I'm not happy with a lot of what I see. We're underachievers."

 

Kenny must be even angrier after today's win.

[greg775]

Should be interesting to hear Oz's take on KW's take.

Usually a GM saying underachieving means the manager is not doing his job very well, unless he's calling out the players. Oops I better ready the story in its entireity.

Edited August 18, 2009 by greg775

[Reddy]

underachievers my ass. this team was never built to compete this year. we're playing exactly as well as I expected us to, thus, I've never been too live or die with the 2009 white sox cuz I've got my sights set on next year.

[ThunderBolt]

underachievers my ass. this team was never built to compete this year. we're playing exactly as well as I expected us to, thus, I've never been too live or die with the 2009 white sox cuz I've got my sights set on next year.

I’d agree with you that this team was a middling team entering this year. However, the midseason acquisitions of Castro, Kotsay, Peavy, and Rios put us in direct contention. Now, in the second half failure is not an option.

[Reddy]

I’d agree with you that this team was a middling team entering this year. However, the midseason acquisitions of Castro, Kotsay, Peavy, and Rios put us in direct contention. Now, in the second half failure is not an option.

fair enough, but i also think those moves were "guarantee us for 2010, and if they put us over the top in '09 so be it". i don't think the goal of the moves was to get us to the WS this year.

[Greg Hibbard]

You know, if this team goes 2 over .500 for the next 36 games at 19-17 (a likely record given the shape of the season since May) and then wins 5 of their remaining 7 games (not impossible if we find a groove once Peavy's healthy), we probably win the division at 85 wins.

 

They've already more than exceeded my expectations. I figured this team for a 77 or 78 game winner.

 

 

[Quin]

Over achievers on a national scale, as we we're guessed to win MAYBE 70 games and be out by mid-July.

 

Under achievers to Sox-dom because we know they can be alot better.

 

Perhaps Kenny's feathers being ruffled is the spark they need.

[G&T]

Tough call. All the moves have made it difficult to say they aren't underachievers. I can say that they don't seem to understand the urgency of winning games against bad teams. They are about to enter a stretch of 23 games against stiff competition: Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, West Coast Trip, Twins, etc. Can't be settling for series wins when you have a chance to sweep against the Royals and Orioles.

[caulfield12]

This is like Charles Dickens so far...the Tale of Three Seasons.

 

First season with Owens/Anderson/Lillibridge/Wise/Miller/Fields and multiple pitchers getting PT but a very solid bullpen held things together. -7 games

Second seasn when we played really well and got back into the division race with a hot offense and very solid starting pitching...+5 over .500

 

And now we're basically "treading" water and heading into the most dangerous, elimination stage of the 2009 baseball season. We have 21 really difficult games out of 23, and almost all of them are on the road. If we can somehow go 11-12 or 10-13, we can stay in the division race, unless DET plays equally bad or suffers an injury to Jackson, Porcello or Verlander (although I can't conceive of us passing them before the end of that brutal 23 game stretch).

 

This team has been such a tease, and the comparisons to 2003 are appropriate, although that team got well above .500 (if memory serves me correctly, somewhere in the 12-16 games over vicinity) and played like the best team in the AL, although we did that (too) recently against the Yankees and Angels.

 

We have so many weaknesses and so many strengths on this ballclub...but with the additions of Castro, Pena, Kotsay, Peavy and Rios, we're a significantly better team (on paper) than we were in 2008 and in the first two months of 2009.

 

At the VERY least, the season has become very, very interesting.

 

We have so many players out of position on the infield or learning new positions...a bullpen almost in tatters...one of the worst defenses and fundamentally sound teams in the league, we have virtually no identity besides being the most talented team (now) in the ALCD. Before the last month, you would have had to argue for DET or MIN, but we've surpassed both those clubs IMO.

 

As soon as you count this team out, they surprise. When you think they've turned the corner, they go 5-7 against VERY pedestrian competition when they should be leading the Central (as KW noted).

 

We don't play exceptionally well at home or have many clutch hitters with RISP...are we last in that category, or does it just seem that way? Our execution with runners in scoring position and less than 2 outs...pathetic? The mental lapses of Pods and Ramirez have been noted, and Nix and Beckham have had plenty of struggles (mentally) of their own, ALTHOUGH NOBODY would have imagined either player could/would/should have such a huge impact on the 2009 White Sox season.

 

You just don't ever know with this team....a couple of months ago, DJ and Farmer called 86 and 89 wins to take the division, and it seems like 90 will be an impossible barrier for any team now but the Tigers. I just hope the season does go down to the final week and we continue to have great fan support like the team has enjoyed recently.

Edited August 18, 2009 by caulfield12