8/18 - Sox vs. Kansas City 7:11pm CDT - CSN

[Buehrle>Wood]

Kenny, I like you and I think we're getting testy here. I'm sorry that my tone in my previous post was condescending, but I'm in a foul mood. My core argument is that the Red Sox are less likely to swing at some of Garcia's bad pitches then the Royals were. Their numbers stand testament to it.

 

I was at the game, and sitting at an awkward angle to really judge Freddy's performance, but I agree with this. It looked like the Royals were swinging at a ton of s*** pitches. Everyone around me said the same. And yet he still didn't pitch well.

[southsideirish71]

Since when does being patient mean you can lay off of an offspeed pitch that looks like a strike coming towards home plate, or that you can't be tricked by a pitcher who takes something off of a pitch and get caught out in front? In fact, if anything, being overly patient is a BAD idea against Freddy because if his breaking stuff is working, the best way to get him is on his fastball which he'll use to get ahead of hitters early in the count.

 

My god you guys make it sound like Freddy is Jose's age and has Andy Sonnanstine's stuff.

 

If Freddy throws a quality start against Boston, which he is definitely capable of doing, watch this board freak out like it did when Jose had a few very nice outings after coming back. Freddy is 34, not 37, and he has more to offer in a tight situation than a totally erratic forkball and a drop-down garbage truck. The Freddy we have is not the same 85mph fastball Freddy that pitched for the Tigers last year or the Mets earlier this year. Through about 90 pitches or wherever he was at tongiht, the gun had his fastball consistently at 88-91. Give the guy a couple more starts to get up to speed and improve the command of his offspeed stuff and then we'll see where he is at.

 

Tonight I saw a pitcher with erratic control of his stuff through the strikezone that got tired and started to hang breaking pitches in the zone. Freddy is younger than the count, however has been on the shelf for the last two years due to arm issues. His velocity is a pleasant surprise. But his control and ability to pound the zone with strikes is not there. Will it come back, maybe. And it better. He goes from facing one of the AL's worst offenses to one of the better ones. If he pitches like he did tonight, he will get a snowman put up on him. Freddy needs to have command and velocity to be successful. He did not have command tonight. Command is something that takes a while to gain, and usually is one of the last things that a player gets in ST. We dont have a lot of time left. So he better get better quickly. One thing is for sure. Peavy needs to come back soon. We have to break up the Conteras/Garcia back to back combo soon or we will burn our pen. Freddy is an unknown quantity due to his recent injuries. We need to see how he bounces back every 5 days.

 

Is he better than Contreras yeah. Is he a good pitcher yet, no.

 

[son of a rude]

this was the most boring sox game i have ever been to.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Kenny, I like you and I think we’re getting testy here. I’m sorry that my tone in my previous post was condescending, but I’m in a foul mood. My core argument is that the Red Sox are less likely to swing at some of Garcia’s bad pitches then the Royals were. Their numbers stand testament to it.

Ok, sorry to get s***ty there. I like you too Thunderbolt .

 

I do understand your argument, but I'm not talking about tonight's Freddy Garcia here. I'll explain in nicer terms:

 

Freddy couldn't get it done earlier on because his fastball velocity wasn't there. This made his offspeed stuff much less effective because it put Freddy in a bad position. Freddy had to either throw his batting practice fastball over the plate and get it by hitters, or throw offspeed stuff with movement but without much of a variation in terms of velocity. Because of this, hitters could either feast on Freddy's fastball or they could feast on his offspeed stuff because, by having to throw so many breaking balls, he would end up throwing a lot more hangers. Even when a guy is in great rhythm it is still hard to throw enough good breaking balls to one hitter to get him out. Freddy basically was in a position where he had to try to change speeds and had to use his put-away pitches as go-ahead pitches. That's why he was really bad.

 

Now, Freddy has the fastball that makes his offspeed stuff effective. Now, if he can locate his fastball to a point, he can get ahead of hitters with that. Now Freddy can turn to his breaking stuff in pitchers' counts instead of having to constantly rely on them in hitters' counts, which makes 1) makes Freddy's breaking stuff more effective, and 2) makes him less likely to throw a hanger because he won't have to throw so many of them. He can now pitch off of his fastball instead of pitching off of his offspeed stuff.

 

So what I'm saying is, Freddy is just getting back to where he needs to be. Yes he pitched for the Mets and has logged innings in the minors, but right now is basically the starting point for him. Right now is his Spring Training so to speak. He needs to find command of the breaking stuff and if he does, his breaking stuff is good enough to get hitters out. Think about this: Freddy's fastball now is where it was in 2006, and that Freddy got us Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez in a trade, and probably 90% of Sox fans thought Kenny should have gotten more at the time of the deal. That 2006 Freddy won 17 games for us and would be an excellent #5 in any rotation. Freddy is never going to have the velocity he had with us in 2005 and prior, but during the 2006 season he matured a lot as a pitcher and showed that he has the offspeed repertoire to get out hitters on a regular basis.

 

Freddy can get back to that 2006 type of performance if he can find his breaking stuff, it is not in any way a fantasy. His breaking stuff is good enough. I know what you're saying about aggressive Royals hitters swinging at more bad pitches than Red Sox hitters will, and I agree with you there. However, Freddy threw some pretty effective breaking balls up there tonight and those are going to get out Red Sox hitters if he can throw them consistently when ahead in the count.

 

Also, keep this in mind too: both of Butler's hits tonight were off very bad pitches which the Royals swung at. The homer was a hanger off the inside corner and above the belt. And thinking of it, most and maybe all of the big hits the Royals got tonight were on pitches that would have been called a ball had they been laid off on. A good hitter will expand his strikezone on a favorable pitch, and that is not a sign of a hitter with poor discipline. Red Sox hitters would have done the exact same. Hang Jason Bay the same pitch Freddy hung Butler and Bay hits it a mile too.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Tonight I saw a pitcher with erratic control of his stuff through the strikezone that got tired and started to hang breaking pitches in the zone. Freddy is younger than the count, however has been on the shelf for the last two years due to arm issues. His velocity is a pleasant surprise. But his control and ability to pound the zone with strikes is not there. Will it come back, maybe. And it better. He goes from facing one of the AL's worst offenses to one of the better ones. If he pitches like he did tonight, he will get a snowman put up on him. Freddy needs to have command and velocity to be successful. He did not have command tonight. Command is something that takes a while to gain, and usually is one of the last things that a player gets in ST. We dont have a lot of time left. So he better get better quickly. One thing is for sure. Peavy needs to come back soon. We have to break up the Conteras/Garcia back to back combo soon or we will burn our pen. Freddy is an unknown quantity due to his recent injuries. We need to see how he bounces back every 5 days.

 

Is he better than Contreras yeah. Is he a good pitcher yet, no.

I agree 100% and this is basically exactly what I'm trying to say.

 

The main thing with Freddy is velocity because he NEEDS that in order for his offspeed stuff to work for him. Now that he has the velocity back, we can hope he regains command of his offspeed stuff because he has shown in the past that he can pitch well off an 88-91mph fastball. I'm not saying Freddy is definitely going to light the world on fire, but if he finds that command he will be a great find for this team. If he didn't have the fastball velocity there would be nothing to hope for this year whatsoever. If he keeps struggling with command like tonight he's going to get lit up by every team in MLB. But IMO he has cleared the greatest hurdle with flying colors by maintaining good FB velocity 90 or so pitches into a game.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects